Originally Posted by
varusso
Back up. There is a little tale about a pot and kettle you should listen to sometime. Disagreeing with someone and refuting their points is NOT the same as ignoring them. I could just as easily make the same accusations about you (and some others in this thread).
Now lets do a little hypothetical here: The folks who say they like the 5-spider auto-fail mechanic, because of the extra "challenge' it presents -- how many of you do the optional dont kill ANY spiders for the extra chest? My guess would be very very few -- not because it is an optional (although that obviously factors into it) but because it is a huge PITA, and largely not worth the effort. If you actually wanted a CHALLENGE that is based on not killing spiders, you would always do this optional. After all, its basically the same thing, only more of it. When you kill the ogre sin a group of spiders, the linked spiders all de-aggro, just like in the auto-fail portion. So the mechanic is exactly the same, yet you CHOOSE not to do it, because it is a huge PITA. Now imagine if that were part of the MANDATORY quest goal -- dont kill any spiders, period. Obviously, Turbine was smart about this and realized the majority of players would HATE this quest, so the compromised by setting that as an optional and the 5-spider as a mandatory.
I can only think of one person I have ever met who actually did the optional, and he was soloing it, with me piking in front for the flag. He was significantly underwhelmed by the reward for it. I dont even remember now if you can get an extra ing out of that chest. And that only demonstrates that players DONT like the mechanic itself, hence why pretty much everyone does it the way we do now -- zerg part one and tip-toe through part 2. If folks actually LIKED the mechanic, and the reward were actually worth it, they would always do this optional. Why dont they (aside from not liking it)? Cos the reward sucks. It just isnt enough of an incentive. So remove THAT optional, replace it with 'dont kill any spiders period -- or dont kill 5', toss a significant chunk of the quest XP in it (while reducing the main XP) and put a worthwhile chest there -- namely the ings chest. And remove the auto-fail. Now THAT would be a challenge for those that see this as a challenge, and it would be an incentive to experience the unique quest mechanic, while earning extra goodies.
For those that are just trying to get the flag and pie...so what? They arent interested in doing the PITA spider thing for time number 273. They have already 'beaten' this quest. Repeatedly. Its not a challenge or a thrill, its just an ends to a means. So they can zerg their thing, and those who 'like' doing it the 'hard' way can still do so. Again, optionals are SUPPOSED to be an extra challenge for reward quest customization.
Permadeath guilds deal with self-imposed restrictions and limitations and 'fails' on a daily basis. Honestly, do you think that a game mechanic that mandates you fail vs a player-choice mechanic that says you failed is really different, when the fail 'trigger' is exactly the same? If you WANT to fail because you didnt save the spiders, you can. Some folks play with the idea that if they dont do ALL of the optionals and get ALL of the bonuses, they didnt complete the quest properly. Its more a matter of perspective than anything. If you view not killing the spiders as a challenge, then you can STILL have that challenge by not killing them. If you DO kill them, then you can choose to restart or not. Removing the mandatory fail does not change that unless YOU decide to go on. In which case, its obvious that -- regardless of what you THOUGH was the case -- completing the quest was more important to you than the challenge of doing so. Either way you have a CHOICE.