Let Sleeping Dust Lie

[Krelar]

@OP

The concern where I agree is with griefing, so I would propose a penalty box system if someone does kill a spider. Not sure how to implement it, but basic concept is kill a spider, out of gameplay, out of end loot.

How about when someone kills a spider the rest swarm the character, wrap them up in a cocoon, and drag them off to their layer which can only be opened from the outside. If the rest of the party so chooses they can go rescue the person or leave them for spider food.

[Aashrym]

How about when someone kills a spider the rest swarm the character, wrap them up in a cocoon, and drag them off to their layer which can only be opened from the outside. If the rest of the party so chooses they can go rescue the person or leave them for spider food.

I think that would be comical. I like it.

[bigolbear]

/not signed

although i apreciate where you are coming from i feel the devs got this one right - they let you make 4 mistakes. thats prety reasonable when i look back and consider the old coyle, and of curse the mumies that must be kept alive.

those quests have since been changed and i have to say my desire to run either of these quests is not what it was, despite screaming blue murder at the time i realise now i actualy enjoyed the challenge.

My suggestion is make quests like these where u have to babysit npcs way more tolerant on casual/normal, as they are on hard, and much more stringent on elite.

elite should mean no mistakes, bring the right team, prepare thy self.

[DrNuegebauer]

this. I've run this quest at least 20 times, and actually never failed it.

I agree with this!
To the OP /not signed!!!

Where's the problem here?

Just don't kill the spiders. Heck - you can even kill 4 spiders and still not fail!

It's really not that hard.

[HallowedOne]

You can't have the same kind of challenges everytime. You need different challenges so you don't get bored with the game.

[LordPiglet]

1. Don't run with people that don't listen
2. Don't wear guards
3. Don't use two-handed weapons
4. ????
5. Profit

Use acid based weapons or paralyzers for melee. Spiders are immune to acid.

OK, just failed this quest AGAIN. Anyone want to guess how? Yup. Someone killed the spiders.
Auto-fail mechanics like this make a quest SUCK.
I dont mind having the quest be challenging (its not). I dont mind having to run around all over the place looking for random-located items and bosses (boring but meh). What I DO mind is a game mechanic that can screw us well into the quest.
(snipped)

You're missing the point, the challenge of the quest is that you have to think and can't blindly kill every single mob you run across like all other quests in the game (but 1). Obviously if you're failing, this quest is challenging.

[Unreliable]

its not that difficult, if you have party members that cannot read that spiders should not be killed then you should reform with people who can.

This basic principle applies to many other things too.

[Bargol]

Killing even one spider....from the moment you enter the quest....loses an extra chest at the end.

-snip

You give some good advice in your post, but this comment is not correct. It only counts from the moment of picking up the book.

[fluffybunnywilson]

You give some good advice in your post, but this comment is not correct. It only counts from the moment of picking up the book.

And you have to pick up the first book before the end fight in order to get the extra chest. You won't get the extra chest by picking up the second book, then killing the Rakshasa and then picking up the first book.

[Bargol]

And you have to pick up the first book before the end fight in order to get the extra chest. You won't get the extra chest by picking up the second book, then killing the Rakshasa and then picking up the first book.

This is true. I was pointing out that the no killing of spiders only starts by picking up a book....not as soon as you enter the quest. So if you are in a pug and unsure of your pug-mates clear out all the lower tunnels first before picking up the book. This will leave only the upper tunnels and can maximize the potential for no spider kills. Before picking up the first book the THF barbs can kill everything and will not trigger the failure of losing the extra chest.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

You give some good advice in your post, but this comment is not correct. It only counts from the moment of picking up the book.

Hmmm....

Always willing to admit that I might be wrong..... but....

I have never seen all three chests in a group that enters the quest, and thinks it is ok to kill spiders before picking up the first book.

And I have seen all three chests in groups that did not kill any spiders from the moment they entered the quest.

Plus I've been told that that is how it works, by some people I trust, here on the forums.

Things change of course. And the Devs never tell us when they change. Or how they are suppose to work anyway.... So the exact details are of how something works are sometimes hard to pin down.

But currently, that is how I think it works.

Sry if I'm wrong.

I might try to experiment a little next time I do it, if I can find a willing party to help me. (or try to solo on my caster)

[Aeolwind]

Only ever failed this quest once, and that was when my buddy hit wail instead of FoD. Kinda humorous in retrospect.

"F*ck!"
"What?"
"Wail."
"You failed!"
"Oh...."

I just throw my stun hammer on and a shield when I run it on my fighter. Equip spectacles of spirit sight with my cleric. I've passed before even running the cove cutlasses and never popped a spider till the last room.

[PNellesen]

It is one of the few challenging objectives left, I loath to see it go away.

honestly though if you/your party can't keep from killing a mob it isn't the quests fault.

Much as I understand the OP's frustration, I have to agree with this. It's challenging in a way that most other quests aren't - you don't have to be an expert puzzle solver, you don't have to have a rogue with some ridiculously high trap DC, you don't need a dedicated tank, you don't even have to keep a mentally deficient NPC alive; you simply have to be able to understand your gear, your spells, and your weapons so that you minimize the "collateral damage" you and your party do. Seems simple enough, until you realize your Mabar cloak just killed one of the spiders (happened to me )

[Diib]

Hmmm....

Always willing to admit that I might be wrong..... but....

I have never seen all three chests in a group that enters the quest, and thinks it is ok to kill spiders before picking up the first book.

And I have seen all three chests in groups that did not kill any spiders from the moment they entered the quest.

Plus I've been told that that is how it works, by some people I trust, here on the forums.

Things change of course. And the Devs never tell us when they change. Or how they are suppose to work anyway.... So the exact details are of how something works are sometimes hard to pin down.

But currently, that is how I think it works.

Sry if I'm wrong.

I might try to experiment a little next time I do it, if I can find a willing party to help me. (or try to solo on my caster)

Talon, you are not wrong, that is still how it works. If you clear the spiders first you make the fail condition less likely to be met... so the quest is easier, but you ABSOLUTELY lose a chest for doing it this way.

[Memnir]

To get the spider chest - you have to kill zero spiders, from start to finish. Even before picking up the book.
You can get one other additional chest for killing all the Ogre Magi.

If I've killed a spider before picking up the book, I've never gotten the extra chest - even with killing none of the five after picking it up.

[Bargol]

Hmmm....

Always willing to admit that I might be wrong..... but....

I have never seen all three chests in a group that enters the quest, and thinks it is ok to kill spiders before picking up the first book.

And I have seen all three chests in groups that did not kill any spiders from the moment they entered the quest.

Plus I've been told that that is how it works, by some people I trust, here on the forums.

Things change of course. And the Devs never tell us when they change. Or how they are suppose to work anyway.... So the exact details are of how something works are sometimes hard to pin down.

But currently, that is how I think it works.

Sry if I'm wrong.

I might try to experiment a little next time I do it, if I can find a willing party to help me. (or try to solo on my caster)

My comment was based on having not failed this quest in forever and usually getting all three chest even in pug groups, but since you seemed insistant you were correct I felt it helpful to prove one of us right. I ran sleeping dust multiple times tonight on my sorc to test out the chest mechanics.

You are in fact completely right and I was wrong.

If you kill even one spider the right of the 3 chests will disappear. If you kill no spiders the right chest will be there with a spider standing next to it.

The center chest is for completing the quest and has the pie piece and material.

The left chest you get for killing all of the ogre magi.

[Zanuzi]

not signed.

power is nothing without control.

learn self control.

[Meeky]

/not signed
although close to coal this is one of my most disliked quests but offers a challenge of understanding.

an understanding NOT to summon a pet at the end fight.

[Tammuz]

It is one of the few challenging objectives left, I loath to see it go away.

honestly though if you/your party can't keep from killing a mob it isn't the quests fault.

I never had a problem with it myself at least.

I'll agree that "protect the npc" type quests have a place in the scope of the world, and that they could be fun (or at least not as frustrating).

Brawnpits - thankfully has a goodly chunk of HP, dishes out a little incidental damage to the foes on the walk back to the wagon that is helpful, can be buffed up and healed as required... and there are good break-points between skirmishes where the party can regroup and recover while examining Brawnpits' condition.

Slavers of The Shrieking Mines - the monkey-men are low CON/HP idiots who die when sneezed on. They are mixed in with a kind that looks disturbingly similar that you can kill. But, thankfully, you get an almost enjoyable number of them to have fall along the way before failure.

Coyle. Ah Coyle - he has all the strength and fortitude of a single-ply sheet of toilet paper, soaking wet. That's while being buffed up and babysat by an attentive healer.

The Cannith Crystal - don't sneeze on it, it will break.

The Crystals to be broken in Lordsmarch Bank - take a serious sustained beating before finally shattering. The Mindsunder crystal at the end of Miseries Peak seems to be somewhere in the middle.

Probably some others I'm not thinking of right away. But, with the spiders, they are too few before failure. The failure can happen suddenly after sinking a lot of time into finally getting to the boss (RW paying customer time) with then nothing to show for it. It can be griefed. The spiders have Coyle-like AC/HP. It could be better. I'm not against "Hard" quests - I'd just like to see the condition for an absolute/unrecoverable fail take place moments after having started the attempt... not potentially hour(s).

Going forward if there are other introduced "protect the npc" type quests, that could be enjoyable if crafted in such a way that the players have more influence over the way the encounter plays out.

No. NO. NO.

NO Escort Missions

[suszterpatt]

On one hand, during leveling my TR I ran the quest at least 5 times, all pugs, no fail.


On the other hand, on one of the runs I killed a spider that appeared to be behind me. Not kidding, I swing, spider behind me pops floaties and dies. Lag can be a cruel mistress.


All in all, I don't think the quest needs changing, but maybe I just have really good luck with pugs.