Constant movement during combat

[Kaldahr]

How do people handle or feel about constant movement during combat? For most of my characters, I've been a "slug it out" (and wise use of various timed buffs / skills) type of person so that combat turns into more of a battle of attrition. A few characters ago I whipped up a dwarf to play around with a noticed that he took less damage when moving around swinging that great axe than he did standing still. So, now I'm trying this out with my various others builds to see the effect.

The downside is that you don't get get the full attack chain and, unless you have spring attack, you've got a to-hit penalty when moving. That, and lots of movement may induce motion sickness. It also might make you difficult to target with friendly spells - enemy archers and caster seem to seem to have no issue. If you're in a group and someone is hopping around like a mad bunny or dashing all over the place (or tumbling everywhere) in an effort to not get hit, does it make it harder or easier?

It's just gut feel and observational that less damage is taken. There are still times when I've gotten hit / tripped while standing behind a mob but I'm chalking that up to positional lag.

[Bodic]

you must improve your Twitch skillz.

The active combat is my favorite part of DDO.

sometimes there is mob lag and they do move on you, not often for me but it does happen.

[cdemeritt]

The fact you can move while swinging is what sets DDO combat apart from many other games... Twitch fighting is an art form that many love.

[Paleus]

I am constantly moving in combat attempting to do the following things. String out the mobs so that I am attacking about one at a time, making sure they are always in front of me and not behind/surrounding me, making sure I can get in a few quick hits and pull out before they can reliably hit me. I know this isnt exactly maxing my dps, but I personally subscribe to the "float like a butterfly, sting like a bee" philosophy when engaged in non-raid boss fights. Side note: I don't run all over the map, I'm usually running back and forth over a set amount of distance, which given that I often play with a blade barrier popper works out well.

I basically follow in your observation, if done properly you take less damage because you aren't getting ganged up on.

[dkyle]

If I'm not fighting a boss, I'm moving constantly. It absolutely does increase survivability. I might stop for a few moments to let some glances proc, but in general, movement is a huge part of the game, and a huge boost if you can master it.

Especially if I'm soloing, and relying on CSW pots for healing, I'll try to keep only one monster within striking range at a time, moving to keep the rest of them behind that one.

As for a burden on party mates, I don't see how. A good healer is going to use either F keys or the party names list to target heals, not try to click on people. Once you have someone targeted, a heal or buff only needs line of site and range, neither of which should be an issue with just some local movement.

And I don't generally bunny hop, unless I'm doing a jump-drink (or jump-rage), to keep moving during the animation.

[somenewnoob]

How do people handle or feel about constant movement during combat? For most of my characters, I've been a "slug it out" (and wise use of various timed buffs / skills) type of person so that combat turns into more of a battle of attrition. A few characters ago I whipped up a dwarf to play around with a noticed that he took less damage when moving around swinging that great axe than he did standing still. So, now I'm trying this out with my various others builds to see the effect.

The downside is that you don't get get the full attack chain and, unless you have spring attack, you've got a to-hit penalty when moving. That, and lots of movement may induce motion sickness. It also might make you difficult to target with friendly spells - enemy archers and caster seem to seem to have no issue. If you're in a group and someone is hopping around like a mad bunny or dashing all over the place (or tumbling everywhere) in an effort to not get hit, does it make it harder or easier?

It's just gut feel and observational that less damage is taken. There are still times when I've gotten hit / tripped while standing behind a mob but I'm chalking that up to positional lag.

You shouldn't worry too much about being targeted by your party's casters, I think most know how to target somebody without mouse clicking them manually. On my cleric I click on the party list to target people.

On my fighter I do move around sometimes, but if I do it is to gain some kind of tactical advantage, not just randomly running around. I might withdraw a bit to a defensible doorway where only a mob or two can hit me at once, or to flank something, or trying not to get flanked. The only time I don't like party members moving all over is if some pew pew ranger is kiting things I'm trying to kill all over the place or something like that.

I'd say if you're not missing much from moving, you're ok. I like to stand still most of the time for the attack chain bonus, but like I said if there is a tactical reason to keep moving I do without thinking twice about it.

[Teech]

How do people handle or feel about constant movement during combat? For most of my characters, I've been a "slug it out" (and wise use of various timed buffs / skills) type of person so that combat turns into more of a battle of attrition. A few characters ago I whipped up a dwarf to play around with a noticed that he took less damage when moving around swinging that great axe than he did standing still. So, now I'm trying this out with my various others builds to see the effect.

The downside is that you don't get get the full attack chain and, unless you have spring attack, you've got a to-hit penalty when moving. That, and lots of movement may induce motion sickness. It also might make you difficult to target with friendly spells - enemy archers and caster seem to seem to have no issue. If you're in a group and someone is hopping around like a mad bunny or dashing all over the place (or tumbling everywhere) in an effort to not get hit, does it make it harder or easier?

It's just gut feel and observational that less damage is taken. There are still times when I've gotten hit / tripped while standing behind a mob but I'm chalking that up to positional lag.

I think its silly to move much if you have other melee party members trying to hit the same target. The added benefits you get from placing yourself in a better position is cancelled out by forcing everyone else to move as well.

Having said that, it is worthwhile, in longer fights, to at least ensure that your back is protected and that the mobs are facing the same direction so that others can flank these mobs without danger of being cleaved.

I generally tend to use movement to choose orientation (facing all enemies and not leaving my back unguarded) and choose battleground (pulling melees around a corner so that I don't have to worry about archers and casters while I take out the melees). But I don't go hopping around like a bunny on crack.

[guzzlr]

Lately, I've been wondering if monsters get the same penalties we get for moving while fighting. If a player doesn't have spring attack they get a -4 penalty to attack while moving; is this true of monsters as well? I doubt it, but it would be cool if they did.

[dkyle]

I think its silly to move much if you have other melee party members trying to hit the same target. The added benefits you get from placing yourself in a better position is cancelled out by forcing everyone else to move as well.

The key is to circle, not run away.

Hitting an enemy on it's backside isn't especially important unless it's got cleave. And unless it's a boss, it's not surviving long enough for positioning to matter much anyway.

Lately, I've been wondering if monsters get the same penalties we get for moving while fighting. If a player doesn't have spring attack they get a -4 penalty to attack while moving; is this true of monsters as well? I doubt it, but it would be cool if they did.

Not sure, but monster to-hit isn't relevant to 90% of end-game characters, anyway. Either way, it's high enough to hit the AC of anyone who doesn't put single-minded devotion into it.

[Sarisa]

With practice, you can dance around a Beholder's anti-magic field and keep your buffs while killing it.

[PNellesen]

I'm constantly moving in combat as well - if soloing so that I can keep the enemies from surrounding me, and if in a group so that I can circle behind whichever enemy has the most damage. I can sometimes manage to go almost an entire round 4 in the Shroud without taking a hit by doing this (I love seeing the word "Evade" appear over my head ) My melees are both TWF Rangers with spring attack though - my Clerics normally don't move much when fighting, usually only to get in a position where their backs aren't exposed. If they're healing, they're also moving, for the same reason: stay behind the enemy so that they're less prone to taking ranged/spell damage from the enemy - Harry has a nasty habit of tossing fireballs at you right when you're in the middle of your Mass Heal animation

[Kaldahr]

Lots of good info in here. Glad to see that what combat "feels" like isn't just me.

What I've started doing over the last few levels is moving the mobs around a lot to attack one or two at a time. Stringing out a large group seems to work well provided your weapon has any sort of range to it (I've had more luck with great axes and less luck with fists, for example). I've also been playing around with circling (circle-strafing - agh!) around behind a mob to see how they react. When it's just one, I've been trying to move just enough to force the mob to not attack but change facing then attack.

I've also had a lot of fun jumping over a mob forcing the entire group to turn around. I've tried bunny hopping but this seems to have little effect over circling behind something.

Thanks for feedback on the grouping part as well. I didn't know how many use F-keys (a virtual necessity, I feel).

Using obstacles has been a part of how I play since I started, but I've found that there's a little more tactical play here than I had been taking advantage of. Someone correct me here, but there's an attack bonus for attacking from behind (positional, not sneak attack) or is that only with the Hound path from monk? Does the Hound path stack with the positional bonus?

With practice, you can dance around a Beholder's anti-magic field and keep your buffs while killing it.

Yeah, that'll take a lot more skill than I think that I have.

[dkyle]

Using obstacles has been a part of how I play since I started, but I've found that there's a little more tactical play here than I had been taking advantage of. Someone correct me here, but there's an attack bonus for attacking from behind (positional, not sneak attack) or is that only with the Hound path from monk? Does the Hound path stack with the positional bonus?

There is, but it's only attack bonus. Which you should only very rarely truly need more of.

Yeah, that'll take a lot more skill than I think that I have.

It's not too hard, if you're in a group. Let some other poor saps go in first, and as soon as you see the "dispel" animation on them, run up. The anti-magic is actually a periodic effect, not constant, so if you can run up within those three seconds, you won't get hit. And if you're right under the beholder, his anti-magic generally won't hit you, even if he's facing you.

[Valindria]

This is a little different, but I like to do back flips on my virt when giants do the stomping animation. I still get knocked down from time to time but it has a fun feel to it.

[twix]

If i couldnt move around in combat this game would lose a lot of appeal...and yes most times circling your target instead of standing there and letting the mob beat your face in is a good idea...im shocked that more people dont fight like this...

[Kaldahr]

If i couldnt move around in combat this game would lose a lot of appeal...and yes most times circling your target instead of standing there and letting the mob beat your face in is a good idea...im shocked that more people dont fight like this...

You know, I almost wonder if people don't know that you can do this coming from other games, as it were. I don't group a lot but, most of the time, everyone just kind of clumps up and starts swinging away - no thought given to movement tactics at all. Perhaps it's that it changes somewhat in a group...

[somenewnoob]

You know, I almost wonder if people don't know that you can do this coming from other games, as it were. I don't group a lot but, most of the time, everyone just kind of clumps up and starts swinging away - no thought given to movement tactics at all. Perhaps it's that it changes somewhat in a group...

You do get this sometimes, unless everybody has voice it's just easier to charge in and hack everything to death most times than try to coordinate.

I solo a lot too, and I'd like to think soloing is where melee movement really shines because a lot of the time you're fighting against many mobs at once, and it takes some skill to not get swamped and sourrounded by all of them since their aggro is all on you! When I solo is when I move the most, pulling things around corners, making incremental figthing withdrawals to try to keep it so only a mob or two can hit you at once......in general I just take a lot more time with a quest when I solo it. (Which helps to cut down on spirit cake purchases)

[Darkrok]

This is more for casters/archers but I find it VERY worthwhile to dodge enemy casters as well. So much of what gets used by enemy casters in this game can be dodged and I'm finding my survivability on my first pure caster to go to high levels (had an 18/2 but I didn't bother dodging with evasion and WF'd immunities) to be greatly enhanced now that I started watching for enemy rays and fireballs.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

I move around constantly, and avoid a lot of damage that way.

I range a lot.

I use terrain a lot. Doorways especially.

I do put my back in a corner, or stand my ground in doorways a lot too. But that is to limit the number of attackers on me at one time.

I find you can quite often shield block and pot/wand heal yourself back to a fighting strength in corners and doorways quiet often.

It's a judgment call, but movement, and positioning, can really limit the damage you take in this game.


It is important to combine tactical movement with agro managment to get the most out of it though. No single tactic always works. I use a combination of many tactics to limit in-coming damage.
(the most effective of which is to let a fellow party member take damage for me. )

[BOgre]

I do move around, but not constantly. Loosing my full attack chain TWF is a massive loss. Twitching while THF is great, but for dual wielding, I need those BAB bonuses at the end of my chain. That said, I do try to string mobs out a bit, I do go for flanking bonus/sneak attack, I do hit multiple (non cc'd) mobs in order to have a chance at cursing/enfeebling them, to mitigate agro, and as has been said, to mitigate damage. I don't have shot on the run, so ranged I stand still unless I need to back up a bit while switching to blades. So I'd say it's about 50/50, or maybe 60/40 in favor of standing ground. Trying to get as many full attack chains before having to move to do the things I mentioned above.
As was said, the ability to move while fighting is one of the reasons ddo will always be the best.