dex mod to dmg

[biscothejerd]

In pen and paper 3.5 edition rogues had some options to add dex to dmg and seeing as how on high end raids you need to be a str rogue to do the best dmg , why have we not gotten a dex to dmg feat or enhancement similar to how swordsages had a feat for it.

[dkyle]

The devil would be in the details.

Full DEX mod to damage would be broken, but giving weapon finesse the ability to apply [(STR mod + DEX mod) / 2] in place of STR mod, if higher, wouldn't be unreasonable.

[Symar-FangofLloth]

The devil would be in the details.

Full DEX mod to damage would be broken, but giving weapon finesse the ability to apply [(STR mod + DEX mod) / 2] in place of STR mod, if higher, wouldn't be unreasonable.

Neh, just tack on a second feat that require Finesse if you want Dex to Damage.
And make it only work with Finessable weapons.

I don't think that's broken, considering you're taking two feats to do it.

[Therrias]

Grab a staff of Nat Gann and you're good to go.

[biscothejerd]

How would it be broken, would rogues with a enhancement option for dex to dmg really be op'd?
It would make finesse builds the best for rogues at high end raids.

[SolarDawning]

Neh, just tack on a second feat that require Finesse if you want Dex to Damage.
And make it only work with Finessable weapons.

I don't think that's broken, considering you're taking two feats to do it.

This is what I agree with.
The important part is that there has to be an opportunity cost to it. A high BAB requirement, say 11, wouldn't hurt either.

[biscothejerd]

This is what I agree with.
The important part is that there has to be an opportunity cost to it. A high BAB requirement, say 11, wouldn't hurt either.

Make it a lvl 18 enhancement and make it forgo any str to dmg??

[Raithe]

In pen and paper 3.5 edition rogues had some options to add dex to dmg and seeing as how on high end raids you need to be a str rogue...

There is no such thing as str or dex rogue in DDO anymore. Everyone can get their strength to near-equal their dexterity, even if they dumped strength and max'd dexterity.

Dexterity makes your ranged attacks more accurate and your reflex save and AC better. You may have to give up a few points of damage (2-5) depending on how much you are going for ranged/AC/reflex. Two to five points in a scale that can currently hit well beyond a hundred with sneak attacks is nothing to be allocating dev time towards.

At all.

[biscothejerd]

There is no such thing as str or dex rogue in DDO anymore. Everyone can get their strength to near-equal their dexterity, even if they dumped strength and max'd dexterity.

Dexterity makes your ranged attacks more accurate and your reflex save and AC better. You may have to give up a few points of damage (2-5) depending on how much you are going for ranged/AC/reflex. Two to five points in a scale that can currently hit well beyond a hundred with sneak attacks is nothing to be allocating dev time towards.

At all.

Tghere is such a thing thats why so many rogues either max dex or str and forget the other except for gear enhancements, like for example i took dex every four levels to get my dex higher, where did you get that from anyways?

[Failedlegend]

There a Feat called Melee Training (Dex) which allows you to use your Dex bonus for attack and half your Dex bonus to damage for any weapon.

Make that for finessable weapons only and make your attack speed increase 1% for every Dex mod or something it would be awesome without being OP

[Calebro]

There a Feat called Melee Training (Dex) which allows you to use your Dex bonus for attack and half your Dex bonus to damage for any weapon.

Make that for finessable weapons only and make your attack speed increase 1% for every Dex mod or something it would be awesome without being OP

There is no such feat in 3.x. That's a 4.0 feat.

I used to want the same thing, but I have since been convinced that it would indeed be OP.
With such a system, Dex becomes the Go-To stat for every toon that has feats to burn. It would power a toon's attack, damage, AC, and 1/3 of your saves.
No fighter in his right mind would focus on Str anymore. Str would become obsolete on many fighters and almost all rangers, while the feat starved rogues would actually have a hard time fitting in a feat that was designed for them.

/not signed.

[Raithe]

Tghere is such a thing thats why so many rogues either max dex or str and forget the other except for gear enhancements, like for example i took dex every four levels to get my dex higher, where did you get that from anyways?

Na, you didn't understand anything I wrote. You can get your strength to near-equal your dexterity - regardless of how many build points you put into dexterity.

You seemed to be worried about "the best damage" in high-end raids. I assume from this that you are comparing your performance against ultra-optimized rogues that have tons of gear, tomes, guild bonuses, and other buffing sources. Calling yourself a dex-based rogue automatically removes yourself from contention for comparison, simply because the sources and gear available for increasing strength far outweigh the sources for buffing dexterity.

For example, say you have a 40 dex. You can still get a 40 strength, even if you only started with 10 base strength:

10 base
4 tome
7 item
3 exceptional
2 rage
2 guild
3 profane
9 psionic/madstone/rams/yugo/profane/alchemical

The ultimate point is that a feat which used your dex bonus in place of your strength bonus would be useless to ultra-optimized rogues running high-end raids.

[Failedlegend]

There is no such feat in 3.x. That's a 4.0 feat.

Turbine has already shown their willingness to take ideas from other edition ie. Dilettantes

I used to want the same thing, but I have since been convinced that it would indeed be OP.
With such a system, Dex becomes the Go-To stat for every toon that has feats to burn. It would power a toon's attack, damage, AC, and 1/3 of your saves.
No fighter in his right mind would focus on Str anymore. Str would become obsolete on many fighters and almost all rangers, while the feat starved rogues would actually have a hard time fitting in a feat that was designed for them.

/not signed.

IIRC correctly max Str is 100+ while max dex is something around 50~ and your only receiving half damage from Dex and your Str is doing nothing (beyond carrying capacity)

It would only make Dex builds slightly less pointless

[Symar-FangofLloth]

This is what I agree with.
The important part is that there has to be an opportunity cost to it. A high BAB requirement, say 11, wouldn't hurt either.

Then you're gimped for half the game. It should be available early, if at all.

I used to want the same thing, but I have since been convinced that it would indeed be OP.
With such a system, Dex becomes the Go-To stat for every toon that has feats to burn. I

Sure, but if it's limited to finesse weapons only, then you're missing out on any THF, on Khopesh, Bastard Sword, Heavy Pick, whatever else people like to use these days.
Not that you can't use them, but then why did you take the dex-to-damage feat?

It'd lead to a whole bunch of Drow Rapier Kensai or something


Anyway, I don't care either way. I just don't think it'd be all that overpowering if they did add an option.

[ORIGINALBAG0]

The issue with this argument is that dex is not an offensive stat. It is entirely defensive. It controls ranged attack to keep enemies away from you, reflex saves to take less damage from spells and traps, and AC to, again, take less damage. It costs a whole feat to even get part of your melee to be dex-based, and it takes rare epic items to use dex for damage. This is how it should be. Strength is entirely an offensive stat. The only thing it controls other than melee is carrying capacity, which is a non-issue once you get your strength over 12 anyway. Letting us take dex to damage would be extremely broken, since raising your dex would raise your survivability and your offense at the same time, unless there was a heavy cost, like capping carrying capacity at 100lbs or something equally limiting that would then be cried about to no end on the forums.

[orakio]

It isn't just about damage, but that is unfortunately all that most min/maxers look at.

Dex affects a huge portion of the game including ranged accuracy, melee accuracy(with feat), reflex save(arguably most important save in the game), ac, and one of the core rogue skills(open lock) as well as universally useful skill(balance).

In comparison str affects melee accuracy, melee damage, thrown ranged damage (with feat) and a large number of skills that are useless or boosted to near max with no real effort (i.e. jump).

I am ok with Dex to damage so long as it takes a major investment, either specific weapons or specific PrE's, that you sacrifice something to achieve that stat. A feat for melee dex to damage would have to have insane feat pre-reqs that aren't part of a standard character build in order to even slightly balance against the fact that dex is an amazing defensive stat.

The melee training lines have no real place in 3.5 rules and are there in 4e to mostly compensate for overinflated mob defensive values compared to character attack progression for non str based characters.

[coltsteel3]

your all missing something with this, there are many weps later in game that do have thier att an dmg mod as dex especially now with the envenomed blades from the new chain, with these or if ur thief acrobat with nat ganns you only rlly need dex for dps an both are epic upgradable so are still usefull end game an staff of nat gann is pretty much usable throughout the whole game.

[licho]

Improved Finesse:
Preq: Weapon Finease, Dex 17, BAB +4.
Effect: With finease weapons you use your dex mod instead of STR if higher.
Note: Switching power attack stance on makes this feat out of effect.

In such shape it will be balanced. Since you need to invest 2 feats, and even with that you loose 5dmg from PA.

[Phidius]

They should fix the problems that devalue dex instead of converting dex to a DPS stat.

[bhgiant]

There is no such feat in 3.x. That's a 4.0 feat.

I used to want the same thing, but I have since been convinced that it would indeed be OP.
With such a system, Dex becomes the Go-To stat for every toon that has feats to burn. It would power a toon's attack, damage, AC, and 1/3 of your saves.
No fighter in his right mind would focus on Str anymore. Str would become obsolete on many fighters and almost all rangers, while the feat starved rogues would actually have a hard time fitting in a feat that was designed for them.

/not signed.

Why not make it a rogue bonus feat? Aside from the PnP deviance and the rangers whining, I don't see why not.