Let's talk about the update 11 raid

[grodon9999]

Agreed, but it is kinda irritating to see genius (or higher) Int level Mobs manage to ignore healers/casters/the Rogue Buzzsaw standing behind them so that they can continue to swipe at the 100AC toon standing in front of them that they can only graze 5% of the time.

I would love to see Horoth stand up after Sulo drops ,say "F this", teleport to the pillar he was on when we entered the room and start dropping Meteor Swarms . Or just fly around doing the same.

I'd be cool with that as well if they didn't have 300k HP and some stupidly artificial dynamic of regaining health when mooks die.

Stupid AI is just a part of DDO.

[Yaga_Nub]

If any of the bosses were played by a player with any degree of skill, a well equipped party wouldn't even get past the first *room*, let alone complete the raid.

There has to be a certain amount of "No, Mr Bond, I expect you to die!"



...and I get to go find a different game to play while I wait (again, I might add) for the next mod.

Attributes on a mob can have a very different impact than attributes on a player.

Not really. If they gave them 100% fort then they could drop the HP but 90% (joking). Of course the Barbs would start crying because they weren't seeing their big damage numbers but in the end the result would be able the same. Plus fort doesn't stop the extra burst damage from crits on damage such as shocking burst/holy burst/Icy burst/ etc.

[Yaga_Nub]

I'd be cool with that as well if they didn't have 300k HP and some stupidly artificial dynamic of regaining health when they die.

Stupid AI is just a part of DDO.

Right but if the scripting was better, they wouldn't need 300k or more of HP.

[SableShadow]

Not really. If they gave them 100% fort then they could drop the HP but 90% (joking). Of course the Barbs would start crying because they weren't seeing their big damage numbers but in the end the result would be able the same. Plus fort doesn't stop the extra burst damage from crits on damage such as shocking burst/holy burst/Icy burst/ etc.

People will still bring barbs, probably lots of them. What won't they bring? Hmmmm...perhaps a subtle hint is in order...like, oh, I don't know, every link in my ****in' sig...

[Blackmoors]

Apart from the suggestions of what the next raid should be (which IMO dont make much sense), that WE want and WE like part on your post/thread its a mistake, this is clearly what YOU you would like on a raid. I agree that Shroud is a nice Raid but theres other good reply able Raids, the difference its that Shroud Guarantees ingredients for some unique type of items, hence the fact people keep on doing them. Also, people complained a lot when Abbot got released because it was clearly broke and the same can be said on Titan which was bugged when it was released...

There cant be a Raid made for what you perceive is the "demand" of the players, the few of us that powergame DDO are a scarce group (ofc theres also wannabes), the game needs to aim to general population so it continues to have the funds necessary to evolve and continue a steady stream of content. The reason the game needed to change management was because it was paying attention to that fact really! Always remember that Powergamers are a minority, the casual player is the core of the game...

[Yaga_Nub]

People will still bring barbs, probably lots of them. What won't they bring? Hmmmm...perhaps a subtle hint is in order...like, oh, I don't know, every link in my ****in' sig...

I already figured that one out, in one or maybe even two of the optional side quests, you have to have a rogue to do it the easiest way and there is at least one chest with a trap like the one in GH where you need a rogue, abiet fully specced for trapping and lock picking, for a chance at a +4 tome or some other highly desirable item.

[grodon9999]

Right but if the scripting was better, they wouldn't need 300k or more of HP.

it's not just that though . . . they just changed the tanking dynamics and added a whole bunch of cool stuff that let's you increase your threat, etc . . . I think Turbine WANTS tank-n-spank for whatever reason and many players have built for this.

It's EXTREMELY artificial and not something you'd see in a D&D fight or an action movie, it's a stupid MMO dynamic but that's what the game is slanted towards.

[Thrudh]

Not really. If they gave them 100% fort then they could drop the HP but 90% (joking). Of course the Barbs would start crying because they weren't seeing their big damage numbers but in the end the result would be able the same. Plus fort doesn't stop the extra burst damage from crits on damage such as shocking burst/holy burst/Icy burst/ etc.

Methinks you've never played a rogue...

100% fort on a boss is a bad idea...

[SableShadow]

I would love to see Horoth stand up after Sulo drops ,say "F this", teleport to the pillar he was on when we entered the room and start dropping Meteor Swarms . Or just fly around doing the same.

I, in his place, would simply fly up above arrow/spell range, tear chunks out of the ceiling and drop them on the party.

Gravity: not just a good idea, it's the LAW!

[Hafeal]

If you were the lead designer Shade, DDO would probably be the most challenging MMO on the market, and all twelve people playing it would be considered Gods Of Gaming.

LOL. Too true, too true.

I want things that fly and that can't be boxed in. And that move.... A LOT.

If they did all those things, you wouldn't need to have a boss with a bajillion HP because we would have a much harder time laying the smack down to it. The only reason they need a bajillion HP right now is the very fact that we can box them in.

Giants should just be able to step over us, dragons and beholders should just be able to fly over us, and a true Pit Fiend should be able to do both.

And bosses should have guards that come to his/her defense. And all bosses should have healing types that heal it. They should have 100% fort, even on normal, at the same level that heavy fort is available to PCs. I really hate these INT 2 villians that we keep getting as BOSSES.

Some nice ideas I have heard before ... well said.

Apart from the suggestions of what the next raid should be (which IMO dont make much sense), that WE want and WE like part on your post/thread its a mistake, this is clearly what YOU you would like on a raid. I agree that Shroud is a nice Raid but theres other good reply able Raids, the difference its that Shroud Guarantees ingredients for some unique type of items, hence the fact people keep on doing them. Also, people complained a lot when Abbot got released because it was clearly broke and the same can be said on Titan which was bugged when it was released...

There cant be a Raid made for what you perceive is the "demand" of the players, the few of us that powergame DDO are a scarce group (ofc theres also wannabes), the game needs to aim to general population so it continues to have the funds necessary to evolve and continue a steady stream of content. The reason the game needed to change management was because it was paying attention to that fact really! Always remember that Powergamers are a minority, the casual player is the core of the game...

+1

[grodon9999]

Methinks you've never played a rogue...

100% fort on a boss is a bad idea...

100% fort on ANYTHING is a bad idea, but that's a subject for another conversation.

[grodon9999]

I, in his place, would simply fly up above arrow/spell range, tear chunks out of the ceiling and drop them on the party.

Gravity: not just a good idea, it's the LAW!

Honestly he'd teleport away before we killed him, these guys really are dumber than Dr. Evil.

[SableShadow]

I already figured that one out, in one or maybe even two of the optional side quests, you have to have a rogue to do it the easiest way and there is at least one chest with a trap like the one in GH where you need a rogue, abiet fully specced for trapping and lock picking, for a chance at a +4 tome or some other highly desirable item.

Been there, done that, got the t-shirt. VoN 5

All you end up doing is create a situation in which players ask themselves "how do we get all this without having to take a rogue along?" ... and players are a pretty creative bunch.

[Khurse]

100% fort on ANYTHING is a bad idea, but that's a subject for another conversation.

It works here.
Raid Bosses that bypass our Fort.

[Qezuzu]

A boss that is highly resistant to physical damage will increase the power of casters. And maybe rogues too, since they can do massive damage per strike easily (+150). You can craft a anarchic byshek weapon or whatever, but you can't craft something that would allow you to bypass massive resistance or immunity to an element or spell.

I would think an intelligent AI'd boss would be challenging. Giving the boss massive resistance to damage is just unimaginative and boring; it would be the same old tank and flank with mass heals, but longer. AI should include:

-Targeting Healers when they heal the target with highest threat.
-Ignoring hate tanks who enable the other ~9 attackers to flank and not take damage.
-Targeting lower-HP targets and eliminating them.
-Debuffing raid: Crushing Despair-like effects, lowering AC/saves/damage/attack.
-Dispelling raid's buffs.
-Break Enchantment for DoT's.
-Self Buffing: GH, Shield, Nightshield, Bear's, Bull's, Haste, Rage.
-Nasty Combos: Mass dispel, Wail of the Banshee (while deathward is removed).
-Summoning Minions to aid them: Give minions "auras" that give the boss and other minions signifigant buffs (like the Shroud mini-bosses).
-Tactical strikes like Stunning Blow (target light monks too), sunder, bewildering blow.
-Flesh to Stone targets with low fort saves (like casters).
-Tactical feat that lowers/bypasses fort, and a high crit multipler.

Also include special attacks (like abbot). Some things I would like to see:

-Bladestorm: Boss's sword shatters, the fragments whirl around doing massive slashing damage (centered around boss). Sword reforms.
-Extremespeed: Boss phases out, some small indicator says where she'll reappear (little expetitous retreat foot marks), huge sword slash upon reappearing that does incredble damage (enough to 1-hit KO barbs).

Also include:

-Environmental hazards (ToD part 1)

[Palantyr]

The gratuitous use of plurals such as "we" and "us" here almost ironically parallels the politicians and lobbyists flaunting of the phrase "The American people want..." solely to push their individual agenda.

Yeah really, if I never read a what I want post before today I have now. I'm willing to be surprsied by the next raid, and hopefully it's a fresh as chrono was when it came out that was pretty fun at first (especially liked running/jumping around part 2). What I'm not personally too hip on is long completion times, anything more than 45 minutes, really over 30 minutes is pushing it for my tastes nowadays (but I'm getting old). If I wanted long raids I'd be playing a different game.

What I think would think would be interesting on the random note, a random end boss or 4 or 6, each with their own loot table and a completion mechanism like epic into the deep where the completion is given before the epic chest. You lose/don't get the boss you were hoping for tough luck, try again in 3 days.

[Sarisa]

I'm sure I'm going to feel like an idiot when you tell me . . . but which quest are you talking about? The only quest I can think of that's usually run on casual is Prey, and that has no special weapon requirement.

Probably Dreaming Dark. The bosses DR is Crystal+Good, which means Upgraded Dreamspitter only. Holy damage temporarily shuts off his regen, or at least used to, so he CAN be muscled through as long as the group healer is efficient with his or her Mass Heal's.

As for the new raid, there are a few things I would like to see:

• Raid loot where every major and most minor builds and playstyles will find something they like. This is unlike say Hound (what is there for non-tanking melees?), VoD (very little worthwhile for divines), and ToD (many set bonuses are horrible, and not all combinations of stats are available, while many others are duplicated across rings).
• A boss fight design where one or two people are not forced to foot the bill for the whole raid. Make sure it's not like ToD in all but the best private groups have to resort to dozens of Heal scrolls and usually a Mnemonic or two.
• Make sure it's accessible on normal, while still being a challenge on elite. The game doesn't survive by completely alienating the newer player base. Normal shouldn't be a cakewalk (like Reaver's Fate) but it also shouldn't require multiple Shroud items and other high end raid loot just to have a chance of succeeding. Elite should require great equipment and good teamwork.
• Involve everyone. Puzzle areas/aspects are a nice break, but they need to be done in such a way that ALL players in a raid do something. Tempest Spine, where 1 or 2 people do the puzzle while 1 person tanks and gets healed, and everyone else backs against the wall until he's vulnerable is not the way to go. Titan, where most of the raid sits on a ladder and pikes, is DEFINITELY not the way to go. Abbot is probably the closest to this goal.
• Too much randomness is definitely not the way to go. This is one thing that makes elite HoX one of the most annoying raids. Even when you perform all the roles right, you're dependent on the roll of the dice whether your buffed up dogs hit, or do enough damage. Then it depends a bit on just how the big dog moves around, moving too close to one of the hallways can cause issues. And with the change to Intimidate, it's not possible to control her positioning once the dogs attack her. Sargata is borderline, but I think still acceptable. His randomness is on the way to the boss, and is far more easily overcome. Too much randomness in a boss fight is not fun. A three-Inferno-in-a-row Abbot is boss randomness gone wrong.

Since this new raid will be coming out in update 11, with the House Cannith enclave, I'm expecting it to have some sort of construct or warforged basis to it.

[Cyr]

Also, people complained a lot when Abbot got released because it was clearly broke and the same can be said on Titan which was bugged when it was released...

Abbot was fun for like the first few days of it's release when you could through lots of effort beat him down and heal through inferno without doing the horrible puzzles. Titan was not really fun until he no longer got stuck easily on things. Abbot to this day I consider to be the worst raid in DDO and one of the perfect examples of what not to do as a developer on pretty much every level...broken to begin with, exploitable to begin with, dramatic over reactions to your own mistakes making a raid unplayable, changing base levels on a raid after it has been out for a while, various times requiring the raid to be shut down, requiring twitch based puzzles to be done in an MMO for completion, and finally in it's playable form it was still semi-exploited or puzzles were basically bypassed using player abilites not available when the raid released....

Shroud on the other hand was the best raid in DDO's history although it too showed a serious lack of polish (clear exploits going live in raids are just not acceptable) upon release and for some time afterwards.

[Thrudh]

Honestly he'd teleport away before we killed him, these guys really are dumber than Dr. Evil.

Then we should add the spell Dimension Anchor!

[Thrudh]

100% fort on ANYTHING is a bad idea, but that's a subject for another conversation.

Ah, true... We should never have 100% immunity to anything.