Wizard or Sorc: New to this, bear with me.

[Kyuubil]

So, I typically run with melee types -- finger waggling isn't my thing.. however, after spending the better part of a week going through characters to no avail, I made a random sorcerer earlier, autoleveled to 4 and ran chrono -- and had a blast, moreso than any character i've played so far -- apparently what I was looking for was the swiss army knife that is spell casting -- well that, and watching the level 20 wizard in the run pretty much solo it

Which leads me to this post -- I'm looking to make a more.. permenant character, either a sorcerer or a wizard -- not much in the way of builds, plenty of wierd /3 /4 sorc splash hybrids, but nothing really.. :solid: (if there is something and i'm just missing it, i'd appreciate a link) -- looking on ddo wiki I am pretty sure I'd enjoy a air savant, and from what I've read air/water is the way to go in the end game

Fire obviously, is the way to go for leveling (and since enh are pocket change to reset, not a problem) -- But spell selection is, I know if I go sorc (unless there is a decently compelling argument to the contrary), spell slots will be slim, therefore I should try and fit what I can in.

So, that leads me to the TRUE TLDR portion of this post

Questions:

1.) Wizard vs Sorc, I know the former has easier access to spells, the latter has stupidly massive mana pools, but for someone who prefers to group (but would enjoy being able to solo things if I come across a 'dry spell' -- which i'm noticing my other characters have

2.) Race! Human is my first instinct, but I see a lot of people run WF, which I suppose makes sense self-healing and whatnot, but.. since spell slots are tight anyhow.. would I be gimping my self too much going fleshy (see above about soloability)? or should I just not worry about it
3.) Spells? if I go sorc, what should I shove in what slots? what should I avoid? (I know I've read a bit about shield vs nightshield, which.. first instinct is automatically shield for me, so good thing I read, heh!)

Sorry for the incredibly noobish questions but..gotta start somewhere? heh.

[fluffybunnywilson]

Even if you read the forum guides to see which spells are the "best", you'll still end up wanting to try out more spells than you have slots for - even on a Wizard.

I think that Wizard is absolutely the way to go on anyone's first Arcane caster. You get every Wizard/Sorc spell in the game to play with and you can swap around as much as you want while you get used to the character.

Also, both Wizards and Sorcerers will run out of spell points before each shrine if you try to kill each enemy in a quest one at a time and both Wizards and Sorcerers will have leftover spell points at each shrine once you get used to gathering up trash and killing it with Area of Effect spells.

Also, Wizard has a much more attractive Past Life feat (both passive and active), so you will have a better character by starting with Wizard if you decide to TR eventually.


And if you do pick Wizard, then both Human and Warforged (and even Half Elf) all have some nice things to offer you, but the self healing that comes with the Warforged race is an easy button that will help you out enormously as you get used to your new character. WF is a great choice for a first arcane caster.

[Gkar]

I'm with fluffy, go WF Wiz for a first caster. Solid, hard to screw up, a good way to learn.

[Doxmaster]

1.) Wizard vs Sorc, I know the former has easier access to spells, the latter has stupidly massive mana pools, but for someone who prefers to group (but would enjoy being able to solo things if I come across a 'dry spell' -- which i'm noticing my other characters have

2.) Race! Human is my first instinct, but I see a lot of people run WF, which I suppose makes sense self-healing and whatnot, but.. since spell slots are tight anyhow.. would I be gimping my self too much going fleshy (see above about soloability)? or should I just not worry about it
.

I can only answer these two.

1. Pick the mechanic that is easier for you: fast spell swapping or early/easy spell nuking. At high levels, everything averages out really.
2. Human if you need the feat, WF if you dont.

[Asmodeus451]

i know that at endgame it matters little, but the extra 2 INT or CHA you can get from going Drow Wiz/Sorc can make a BIG difference while leveling.

IMO, Human, WF, and Drow are all EQUALLY viable options for either class. Each has thier pros and cons that must be weighed before you decide.

[emptysands]

i know that at endgame it matters little, but the extra 2 INT or CHA you can get from going Drow Wiz/Sorc can make a BIG difference while leveling.

INT/CHA really only affects DC. Most of the levelling work for an arcane is damage based. Jump, fireball once, oh no one mob saved, firewall, jump, jump, fireball again, move on. Maybe if AM SLA

If you've not played an arcane before go WF - self healing is important, you should be pretty much able to recon scroll self heal in most situations if you are displaced.

While a Drow Soc could probably UMD heal scrolls, it takes an investment in equipment.

WF wizard gives you the option to try out AM or PM, and all the spells. Plus Wiz PL is required pretty much for any arcane.

[goodspeed]

ya especially if your trying to use a **** spell that saves. **** you to hell niacs cold ray!!!!!

As for which it's all up to you. Just know this, a wizard is versatile, They're a jack of all trades, some even take 2 lvs of rouge and disable traps with ease with their buffs. However what they do lack is mana. Even as an archmage while you do get a bunch of spell points for going that route, you loose them just as fast taking sla spells.

So your not gonna be a death-walker here whipn fireballs, and firewalls, and ice comets wasting everything. The plus side is your dc. It's easier to land spells especially crowd control.

Sorcerer on the other hand is the flip. Not as much dc (well not without working at it) however you get a massive spell pool as gear that gives you spell points is doubled. This also allows you to just walk in and start whippn **** everywhere. And you get a few low cost spell point sla's to hurl into stuff to manage your output to.

However the downside is less spell choice. Your decisions are semi final. (meaning you have to pay coin to change the spell and then only 1 spell can be changed every 3 days.) But fortunately their are many a sorcerer with guides and even 5 people will chime in on the advice channel in game on what a good spell choice would be. So knowledge is never lacking here. It's a tough class sometimes but when ya get into the groove, it's a whole lotta fun.

Me I have both a sorcerer and a wizard palemaster. I tend to enjoy the sorcerer more but then again the palemaster hasn't gotten his point and everything in front of him dies spells yet.

[nolaureltree000]

if you want survivability and solo-ability, youre going to need to plan on being able to self heal. WF wizard does this well with repair spells/scrolls and doesnt get a -2 in its casting stat like a sorc would.

if you want to go with a fleshy, id go with sorc. with the high CHA, if you throw a few points into INT youll be able to get a high enough UMD to scroll heal yourself.

without any experience playing an arcane, id go with a wiz. like others were saying, having access to all the spells and being able to change them without limit lets you play around with them and find out which you like and which you dont like. plus the wiz's higher DCs will help you have a stronger toon until you can get some raid gear and other items put together.

[Angalion]

I am a bit surprised that no one mentioned Pale Master so far. Ability to self heal with any race, a few extra hit points and heavy fort. My pick all the time for non-Wf arcane casters.
And for your first Arcane I would stick with wiz./PM.
Advantages are: you can try out every spell in the game and because of more spell slots you are much better at buffing in the mid to endgame which makes you more valuable for a group. Plus you get a few extra spell casting feats - always nice to have those.
Disadvantage : you have less spell points than a sorcerer and you deal less damage than a specialized sorcerer. But you can counter that with your attacks in undead form - which btw. can be used even when in a beholder antimagic field. Use necrotic attacks for normal mobs and save spell points for tight spots and bosses.

[ProdigalGuru]

I would suggest Drow Pale Master or Warforged Enchantment Archmage.

[Manko-ALE]

warforged evoker archmage with 2 levels of rogue and insightful reflexes. the sla's give you plenty of magic missiles and the chain missiles are especially nice, this build is pretty forgiving. and you can still do traps very well and have good reflex saves.

[elricken]

My advice:

Go 10 wiz 10 sorc and save yourself the agony of deciding.

[Enoach]

I would recommend for your First Arcane caster a Wizard before Sorcerer - but only because it will allow you to learn each of the spells of each level - SP conservation as wizards generally have 2/3 rds the SP pool of a Sorcerer (not always).

And as noted in a previous post the Wizards Past Life Feat is very useful if you decide to TR into a Sorcerer.

Why these are important as a Sorcerer:
1. You get fewer spells ready to cast as a Sorcerer
2. You cannot decide mid quest that you need to Memorize a different spell
3. Learning the right spells to cast at a given time will also help you strech your SP even further (knowing when to use which Meta and when you don't need to blow something up with a spell that does 3x's the enemies HP)
4. The past life feat will add +1 to all schools DC's, this is equivalent to getting +2 to your primary Casting Stat.


One thing to keep in mind here -- If you do think you are going to start as a Wizard and convert over to a Sorcerer with a TR -- plan any Green Steel crafting accordingly as you would have little to know use for + to exceptional Intelligence.

Good place to put exceptional intelligence would be on a Dragon Touch robe, as you can replace it with an exceptional charisma item rather easily

[Kyuubil]

I went with wizard, approaching 5 now.. much say I'm glad I did, I enjoy sorc (and will probably TF to it in the future), but the ability to pick up new spelsl has been invaluable already.

I went human instead of WF, mostly because I just.. don't like WF, even in pnp eberron games they jsut don't sit right with me for some reason, but palemaster should handle the most of my worries from my reading

AS for enhancements, I just went with the general ones in the palemaster guide (.. found it in another thread) though that was written pre U9, so they're a bit odd -- focusing on fire and ice enhancements since that makes up the majority of my damage for the moment, dipping int/spellpower/etc when I get the chance -- anything in particular I -shouldn't- miss? I know fires use diminishes in the end game, but respecs for enh are cheap so..

Finally, any spells I should pay attention to? Niacs is working wonders right now, butI'm sure that'll change before long.

I was hesitatnt to make an arcane because at lower levels they're pretty much ALL I see (I was in a group with -four- wizards and a sorcerer earleir), but looking at hte LFM thing -- 16-20 all day has been groups mostly looking for arcanes, not rogues, not healers.. caught me as odd.

Was going to focus on my bard, but.. seems a wizard would get more use in the end, heh.

[axel15810]

Finally, any spells I should pay attention to? Niacs is working wonders right now, butI'm sure that'll change before long.

I'd also like to get some input on this. I'm at lvl 5 as well and cold ray is also what I'm using 90% of the time, with an occasional fire ray, flaming hands, or magic missile. Also buffing everyone with bulls and blur but that's about it at this point. Snowball is useful in huge mobs. Flaming sphere is probably my favorite spell, it really fun but not very practical in most situations.

[axel15810]

Just started my first arcane this week after running a cleric to cap and a fighter and rogue to mid levels. The advice I have gotten is for sure go wiz for first arcane so you can play with spells. I tried a sorc to lvl 6 before this wiz and yeah, Wiz is much better for my first arcane. Go WF if you're going archmage, human if going palemaster. I went WF palemaster wizard at first, then after I got to level 6 I realized that later undead forms have self healing so self repair and con is not worth the extra feat and intelligence enhancement from human. So I rerolled it last night as a human palemaster. It's fun so far, can't wait until I actually get the insta death spells and later undead forms, it will be really fun. I don't think drow would be a good choice just because the only advantage over human is one more skill point to INT, but you lose a feat and get -2 CON.

[tinyelvis]

Cast fox cunning on yourself to get your DC's super high. Take acid blast or fire ball. At 5th level properly buffed, these spells will clear a room. Make sure you buff them with enhancements and superior inferno clicky. Carry a fire/acid lore item.

[axel15810]

Cast fox cunning on yourself to get your DC's super high. Take acid blast or fire ball. At 5th level properly buffed, these spells will clear a room. Make sure you buff them with enhancements and superior inferno clicky. Carry a fire/acid lore item.

I'm at lvl 6 right now, and all I can say about palemasters is WOW. I've played through the game with a cleric and a fighter but never an arcane. I feel like I'm cheating almost. Buffing with haste, fox cunning and blur. In zombie form usually. Boosting spells with superior nihl, freeze, and inferno. Right now I'm mainly only using chill touch for close and cold ray for ranged. Fireball for mobs when needed. Putting on lesser death aura for extra close damage and self healing. Cheap, awesome skeleton knight summon. This toon is just ridiculous compared to other classes at my level.

[glouky]

I confirm that the character to play is a WF or human palemaster wizard.

* You can try all spells, and have a chance to land them.
* Playing in undead form is a refreshing experience.
* if you go WF, you can also enjoy not undead form with reconstruct

I've played sorc for a few years, but now I play wizard and cant go back to sorc now : sorc "just" nuke like crazy, but you miss a lot of the fun experiences (charms, instakill, CC, buff -- requires spell swap)

[wax_on_wax_off]

I tend to ignore single target spells pike niacs/frost lance while leveling except for specific quests when they're needed (lair of summoning).

Instead, I focus on the ability to clear a room which is the strengh of an arcane. 1 maximise, empowered, superior corrosion III'd acid blast with maximum enhancements will clear a room right up until level 12 or so at which point you start getting death spells.

What's even better than acid blast though - when you get the spare spell slot - is acid rain. This won't just clear a room it'll hang around long enough to ensure that no mob misses out on being melted.

I'd suggest to level with fire/acid until you enter the vale when you can swap to ... Something else (probably cold/air). 1 point in the damage line of cold, lightning and force is always a good investment, afterall, you're a wizard and you can swap spells anytime you like