Epic Item Review: Red Fens

[sephiroth1084]

A decent DC (40+) and it's good to throw out - don't know if a sorc should have it, but don't see why a wizard wouldn't.

I've never had trouble slotting it, but I also don't mind either not having ice storm (don't use it much outside of raids) or just scrolling fireshield. One of the biggest helps I ever had for level 4 was when I stopped carrying stoneskin, though...wands of that work just fine. Besides, with a decent DC...another instant kill is always an extremely good candidate for spells. The only reason I wouldn't say it for a sorc is their DC has more trouble being high enough to be worth the slot...if they get the DC, though, they should likely carry it too.

PM wizard: NEB, DA, DDoor, Fire Shield, Crushing Despair, Ice Storm, firewall, Acid Rain, Stoneskin. Those are all worth a slot. You can scroll Fire Shield, but none of the rest.

One other thing - changing the +4 insight to +4 dodge on the siren's set would not make me happy...I'm planning to use the set when the gem counts as either part to be able to use cannith-crafter dr breakers or the like, so as to not have to use greensteel - this is a HUGE reason people like the set. I could get behind an additional +4 dodge, and that wouldn't even be over-powered.

On what sort of character? You can get +4 Insight on a ring, cloak, Alchemical crafted weapon or shield, or Epic Swashbuckler. You can only get +4 Dodge on the Icy Raiments or Epic Staff of Nat Gann. Adding both would be too strong, as the Belt + Gem would give you +8 AC, +5 Protection (or +6), +4 Insight and +4 Dodge. That feels like a bit too much. If you're a monk-based AC character, this would let you swap the Icy's for something more useful, like the Frozen Tunic, Red Dragonscale, Garments of Equilibrium, DT, or something else and keep your +4 Dodge. Meanwhile, it opens up the possibility for paladins and fighters to get +4 Dodge, though it competes with the defender ToD sets (+2 AC among other things in the belt slot for paladins, neck slot for fighters), and Epic Grim's Bracelet (+3 Dodge in neck slot). There are ways to work in this itemization, but it poses some tough choices. Having both +4 Dodge and Insight would probably make this a must-have set, which will limit overall choices.

[WruntJunior]

PM wizard: NEB, DA, DDoor, Fire Shield, Crushing Despair, Ice Storm, firewall, Acid Rain, Stoneskin. Those are all worth a slot. You can scroll Fire Shield, but none of the rest.

I usually carry as a PM: NEB, DA, DDoor, PK, and either Ice Storm or Crushing Despair depending on what I'm doing. Stoneskin is easily wand-whipped....Fireshield is scrolled...the other spells all depend mainly on what element you choose...and cold/earth does not appear to be a very popular combo.

On what sort of character? You can get +4 Insight on a ring, cloak, Alchemical crafted weapon or shield, or Epic Swashbuckler. You can only get +4 Dodge on the Icy Raiments or Epic Staff of Nat Gann. Adding both would be too strong, as the Belt + Gem would give you +8 AC, +5 Protection (or +6), +4 Insight and +4 Dodge. That feels like a bit too much. If you're a monk-based AC character, this would let you swap the Icy's for something more useful, like the Frozen Tunic, Red Dragonscale, Garments of Equilibrium, DT, or something else and keep your +4 Dodge. Meanwhile, it opens up the possibility for paladins and fighters to get +4 Dodge, though it competes with the defender ToD sets (+2 AC among other things in the belt slot for paladins, neck slot for fighters), and Epic Grim's Bracelet (+3 Dodge in neck slot). There are ways to work in this itemization, but it poses some tough choices. Having both +4 Dodge and Insight would probably make this a must-have set, which will limit overall choices.

My only current ac tank is my 12 fighter 7 rogue 1 monk. I get +4 dodge on my armor. Most S&B tanks don't get Dodge +4 easily with their ideal gear, but they do get Insight +4....most monk-splashes don't get +4 Insight on their ideal gear, but do get +4 Dodge. That would make it where people would actually want this set for consolidation...and as a 2-item set, that's not so bad, in my opinion.

[sephiroth1084]

Alchemical handwraps are rather excellent for AC tanks, as you can get DR breakers with +4 Insight, +1 AC from either alchemical Dex or Wis, DoTs or big damage procs to help with keeping aggro/grabbing it back during fluid aggro periods (in LoB), and eventually +6 and a red slot.

For LoB, at least, two burst rings are kind of unnecessary since he has resistance to all the relevant elements, making Omniscience a reasonable swap item in there, and you can get by without the second burst in ToD or other raids.

[sephiroth1084]

Also, given how the Epic Gem of Many Facets is an almost auto-include on monks for the Raven's Sight + Gloves of the Claw combo, the Siren's set bonus would really be counted as a single item bonus, making equipping the Siren's Belt grant +8 armor, +5 (or 6) Protection, +4 Dodge or Insight (feel Insight is too weak here). That's a lot for a single item to grant. Giving both +4 bonuses would definitely be excessive.

Equipping a single item would already be adding +18 AC to your character, which is a lot.

[sweez]

PM wizard: NEB, DA, DDoor, Fire Shield, Crushing Despair, Ice Storm, firewall, Acid Rain, Stoneskin. Those are all worth a slot. You can scroll Fire Shield, but none of the rest.

My standard set-up on a PM is NEB, DA, CD, PK and DDoor. Don't really see much point in ice storm/acid rain/fw, the boss dps they add is minimal, trash gets instakilled (or held/stoned and then prismatic sp/rayed if orange name), and there is a million other ways to grab aggro (I do slot one of those instead of DDoor for raids or other quests where DD isn't used just for convenience's sake).

Fire shield is scrollable, stoneskin comes on min2 gs items which also save 30 tokens The rare times I actually have to cast SS more than twice I just use wands (most of the time it's overkill on a PM with boon anyway, if I'm tanking something I just shieldblock and use DP clickies, for archers there's bramble casters).

Dunno, I just found that I have a lot of dead time when cycling through wail/circle/finger, usually use energy drain > PK on mobs that saved a finger.

So anyway, waaaaaay off topic

[sephiroth1084]

Do you value PK enough to equip an epic item with +2 DC on it?

[WruntJunior]

Do you value PK enough to equip an epic item with +2 DC on it?

Epic Staff of Inner Sight should be a goal of all DC wizards. That covers +2 everything.

[sephiroth1084]

Epic Staff of Inner Sight should be a goal of all DC wizards. That covers +2 everything.

That didn't answer the question.

Would you equip an item just to improve PK by 1-2 points?

And the ESoIS is a very good item, but is a 2-hander, and therefore locks out other useful stuff. Some of the suggestions I've made in this thread have been aimed at breaking up the ESoIS bonuses and spreading them out amongst other gear. You could use the staff, or you could equip 2-4 other items, with some of their own benefits, in order to get the same bonuses.

[WruntJunior]

That didn't answer the question.

Would you equip an item just to improve PK by 1-2 points?

And the ESoIS is a very good item, but is a 2-hander, and therefore locks out other useful stuff. Some of the suggestions I've made in this thread have been aimed at breaking up the ESoIS bonuses and spreading them out amongst other gear. You could use the staff, or you could equip 2-4 other items, with some of their own benefits, in order to get the same bonuses.

I actually do currently use a scepter because it combines greater enchantment focus and greater illusion focus (scepter of mad trickery). So yes, I would equip an item for that bonus alone...especially if I could get it as an equipment slot. The only problem is the current lack of good items that include greater illusion focus (and mostly the overall lack of greater illusion focus). All in all, PK is a great spell to have to throw at enemies...and getting that DC up to the useful point is worth it.

Beyond that, though...I wouldn't personally use stuff that breaks the bonus of the epic staff of inner sight bonus over multiple items unless the items had enough merit on their own to make most of them already desirable....the staff is more the answer to a need to me than a dreadful thing to have to equip (that need being, of course, +7 int and greater spell focuses on convenient slots).

In any other case, the multiple bonuses essentially simulating the epic staff of inner sight are more of a bridge object to me than the actual goal...something that's much easier to get than an epic sands item in order to prepare the toon for epic sands.

[Astraghal]

Changing the Claw gloves to +2 Str seems like a good change to me, but I don't think the bracers need a green slot. They're pretty decent already, and are contributing to an excellent set bonus.

True, but they are an item that is one half of a set bonus, that basically consists of a slotted Green Augment and Incredible Potential slot. I can see why the gloves should be left alone, but even +6 enhancement with +2 Exceptional STR wouldn't be TOO bad, or just +7 STR. A clear slot would at least give people the option of the combination that suits them best. ToD rings are one half of a set bonus, have +6 enhancement, +1 exceptional and the option of +2 exceptional/20% healing amp being crafted and those aren't even Epic items. Besides, stuff like Epic Ring of the Buccaneer and Epic Ring of the Stalker blow those older items out of the water in a lot of ways.

One other thing - changing the +4 insight to +4 dodge on the siren's set would not make me happy...

I agree here, the set bonus should have been Superior Parrying, like the Epic Swashbuckler.

[sephiroth1084]

True, but they are an item that is one half of a set bonus, that basically consists of a slotted Green Augment and Incredible Potential slot. I can see why the gloves should be left alone, but even +6 enhancement with +2 Exceptional STR wouldn't be TOO bad, or just +7 STR. A clear slot would at least give people the option of the combination that suits them best. ToD rings are one half of a set bonus, have +6 enhancement, +1 exceptional and the option of +2 exceptional/20% healing amp being crafted and those aren't even Epic items. Besides, stuff like Epic Ring of the Buccaneer and Epic Ring of the Stalker blow those older items out of the water in a lot of ways.

With both items getting a slot, they would be:
Heavy Fort - necessary effect
+2 exceptional Con - hard to get elsewhere for most characters
+2 exceptional Str - hard to get elsewhere for monk; useful to many others
+30% healing amp - one of the only places to get this and incredibly powerful
+5 Intimidate - only place to get this
+4 damage
+20% threat - very useful for some
2 slots - can be two +6 stats, two +1 exceptional stats, or a combination of both

They don't need a green slot.

I agree here, the set bonus should have been Superior Parrying, like the Epic Swashbuckler.

You aren't agreeing to what you think you are.
Superior Parrying is +4 Insight to AC and saves.
The set bonus is +4 Insight to AC, and +2 to saves.
I'm calling for it to be changed to +4 Dodge to AC (don't care what happens with the saves).
He's saying it should remain an Insight bonus.

[Astraghal]

With both items getting a slot, they would be:
Heavy Fort - necessary effect
+2 exceptional Con - hard to get elsewhere for most characters
+2 exceptional Str - hard to get elsewhere for monk; useful to many others
+30% healing amp - one of the only places to get this and incredibly powerful
+5 Intimidate - only place to get this
+4 damage
+20% threat - very useful for some
2 slots - can be two +6 stats, two +1 exceptional stats, or a combination of both

They don't need a green slot.

If its effects were unique or amazing, I would tend agree with you. But they aren't, they are just stuff you could slot in any Epic item or junk ToD ring. Just look at what 2 x ToD rings gives. Essentially an ML18, +9 ability item that forms one half of a set bonus. There's a lot of flexibility in combinations of abilities too, even though there are few really compelling set bonuses. I don't think the eClaw set is quite as powerful as when it first came out. Not with event, challenge and various upgraded and updated loot we've been getting lately. The 30% heal amp is the main feature of the gloves, the stacking Intimidate is situational, but those two effects are often complimentary for a tank. We already got a +5 net increase to Intimidate with the Epic Brawn's Spirits upgrade. I think items have gotten more powerful since this thread was started, so my current vision for the eClaw set is:


Epic Bracers of the Claw

Greater Vulkoor's Might
Exceptional Constitution +2
Heavy Fortification
Empty Green Slot


Epic Gloves of the Claw

Greater Vulkoor's Might
Exceptional Strength +2
Intimidate +5
Healing Amplification 30%
Empty Colorless Slot

Overall I tend to be conservative on these things too, so I'm not really bothered if this set remains unchanged. In previous incarnations of DDO, I don't think it needed an upgrade. In the context of the current game, with top-notch, bargain basement budget Epics, dripping with unique abilities and slots, I think it does.

You aren't agreeing to what you think you are.
Superior Parrying is +4 Insight to AC and saves.
The set bonus is +4 Insight to AC, and +2 to saves.
I'm calling for it to be changed to +4 Dodge to AC (don't care what happens with the saves).
He's saying it should remain an Insight bonus.

Maybe not, but I'm asserting that the set bonus should be +4 to AC and Saves, rather than +4 to AC and +2 to Saves. A unique property that the Epic Swashbuckler already has, as well as Guardbreaking, +2 Exceptional DEX, 6% Doublestrike, equal highest AC and a Blue slot..

[sephiroth1084]

If its effects were unique or amazing, I would tend agree with you. But they aren't, they are just stuff you could slot in any Epic item or junk ToD ring. Just look at what 2 x ToD rings gives. Essentially an ML18, +9 ability item that forms one half of a set bonus. There's a lot of flexibility in combinations of abilities too, even though there are few really compelling set bonuses. I don't think the eClaw set is quite as powerful as when it first came out. Not with event, challenge and various upgraded and updated loot we've been getting lately. The 30% heal amp is the main feature of the gloves, the stacking Intimidate is situational, but those two effects are often complimentary for a tank. We already got a +5 net increase to Intimidate with the Epic Brawn's Spirits upgrade. I think items have gotten more powerful since this thread was started, so my current vision for the eClaw set is:


Epic Bracers of the Claw

Greater Vulkoor's Might
Exceptional Constitution +2
Heavy Fortification
Empty Green Slot


Epic Gloves of the Claw

Greater Vulkoor's Might
Exceptional Strength +2
Intimidate +5
Healing Amplification 30%
Empty Colorless Slot

Overall I tend to be conservative on these things too, so I'm not really bothered if this set remains unchanged. In previous incarnations of DDO, I don't think it needed an upgrade. In the context of the current game, with top-notch, bargain basement budget Epics, dripping with unique abilities and slots, I think it does.

I think the bracers could stand to have a yellow slot, and the gloves a colorless.
If you want to look at ToD rings, consider that there is very little competition for the bracers slot, and nothing anywhere near as good as the claw gloves for many melee, even before the set bonus. Looking at the ToD sets, the rings give +6 stat you may or may not want, +1 exceptional stat you may or may not want, and the ability to craft +2 stat, +20% healing amp (available in a few spots, but none as convenient as this), or burst effects for monks. The second pieces range from kind of nice (+6 Con, GFL) to junk (+6 Con, +15 Concentration) for many characters.

The Shintao set is one of the most coveted. It gives
+6 Con
+6 Wis
+1 Str
+15 Concentration
+2 attack
+2 damage
craftable slot

The necklace slot is also a rather contested slot for many characters, as it has stuff like the Torc, Epic Grim's, Epic Hyena Claw, and Alchemist's that are all providing much nice bonuses in the slot, if not necessarily when accounting for the set.

The claw set is providing several highly sought after/necessary item effects and, at least for the bracers, are not taking up important slots (for non-monks/AC toons).

You could slot the gloves with +1 Str, and the bracers with +1 Con and essentially replicate two ToD rings, except you'd stil have ring slots free, and most characters are getting their +6 Str and Con elsewhere anyway. Or, you could stick +6 Int and Cha in those slots to pad your stats for Silver Flame pots or UMD. I don't think the bracers need to also be able to gain Toughness or Good Luck.

Maybe not, but I'm asserting that the set bonus should be +4 to AC and Saves, rather than +4 to AC and +2 to Saves. A unique property that the Epic Swashbuckler already has, as well as Guardbreaking, +2 Exceptional DEX, 6% Doublestrike, equal highest AC and a Blue slot..

I think the +2 saves is a minor point.

[grodon9999]

The sets are fine, I'd just like to see a colorless slot added to everything and it'd all be wonderful.

[sephiroth1084]

The sets are fine, I'd just like to see a colorless slot added to everything and it'd all be wonderful.

The claw set or all the stuff?

I think a lot of the sets need serious revisions, and many of the items deserve yellow, blue or green slots, plus a red on the Shatterbow.

[Astraghal]

Or, you could stick +6 Int and Cha in those slots to pad your stats for Silver Flame pots or UMD.

This is my main concern and I'd be happy with any slot really, as it's an extra +6 or +1 exceptional Ability. I just don't think ML18 raid loot should be compared to Epic items.

I don't think the bracers need to also be able to gain Toughness or Good Luck.

I think the +2 saves is a minor point.

I think that BECAUSE the bracers are already a composite of a Green slot and a ToD ring slot, they need something a bit more exciting than a Colorless or Yellow slot. I think the flexibility to add Toughness or Good Luck, as well as Fear Immunity/Deathblock/Natural Armor/Greater False Life, or a +6/+1 exceptional Ability would make this item Epic.

I don't really care about the Saves, most of these items and sets will probably still be worthless junk anyway, even if they get upgraded. Turbine are only interested in putting time into making the new stuff all shiny and uber, making it ridiculously OP so that the new content gets sold. Then we get to have threads like this a few years later in order to address item balance issues.

[sephiroth1084]

This is my main concern and I'd be happy with any slot really, as it's an extra +6 or +1 exceptional Ability. I just don't think ML18 raid loot should be compared to Epic items.

Aren't you the one that brought up ToD rings in the first place? And since those are pretty solid endgame gear, I don't think the comparison is unwarranted.

I think that BECAUSE the bracers are already a composite of a Green slot and a ToD ring slot, they need something a bit more exciting than a Colorless or Yellow slot. I think the flexibility to add Toughness or Good Luck, as well as Fear Immunity/Deathblock/Natural Armor/Greater False Life, or a +6/+1 exceptional Ability would make this item Epic.

Sure, they are the weaker half of the set, but they're still a very solid item. With a yellow slot they could get GFL, immunities, or the stat bonuses, and that looks like enough.

It really comes down to the fact that the claw set is already among the most desired epic items for melees and some other sorts of characters without slots. It needs slots, but it doesn't need excellent slots.

I don't really care about the Saves, most of these items and sets will probably still be worthless junk anyway, even if they get upgraded. Turbine are only interested in putting time into making the new stuff all shiny and uber, making it ridiculously OP so that the new content gets sold. Then we get to have threads like this a few years later in order to address item balance issues.

I really cannot follow your train of thought. Wrunt and I were going back and forth regarding the AC bonus type. You chime in to say you want it to have the same effect as can be found on the Swashbuckler, which doesn't really address what he and I had been debating/discussing. You assert it should have the extra saves, and now you say it doesn't matter.

As for the items being improved, the ones from the Carnival and Sentinels did get upgraded, and some in very significant ways.Grim's and Brawn's in particular went from junk to top tier items. Genasi was clearly listening to suggestions made in those threads.

[Astraghal]

Aren't you the one that brought up ToD rings in the first place? And since those are pretty solid endgame gear, I don't think the comparison is unwarranted.

Yes, to show how favorably they compare to an Epic item that consists of a slotted Green slot and slotted ToD ring slot. To show how badly an Epic item compares to ML18 raid loot. Not to validate an Epic item because it's part of a set that's slightly better than 2 ToD rings.

Sure, they are the weaker half of the set, but they're still a very solid item. With a yellow slot they could get GFL, immunities, or the stat bonuses, and that looks like enough.

Not with stuff like Epic Ring of the Buccaneer, Epic Ring of the Stalker, Epic Treasure Hunter's Spyglass and many other easy to aquire Epics that are packed with unique, powerful goodies and slots.

It really comes down to the fact that the claw set is already among the most desired epic items for melees and some other sorts of characters without slots. It needs slots, but it doesn't need excellent slots.

That's because there really aren't many amazing items for melee, other than the eSoS. Especially when you can already get half the set benefits as augments in Epic slots, ToD rings or elsewhere. I see get where you're coming from, but I think items like Epic Brawling Gloves compare favorably as a 'melee' item. Like the better ToD sets, The eClaw set is only good because it has a lot of 'okay' properties in one set, but 30% healing amp and +5 Intimidate are the only really unique things and they are both on the gloves. I try not to overrate things that can be slotted, like Heavy Fortification etc., unless it's super-convenient and not a main feature of an Epic item. That's why I think the Bracers need a Green slot.

I really cannot follow your train of thought. Wrunt and I were going back and forth regarding the AC bonus type. You chime in to say you want it to have the same effect as can be found on the Swashbuckler, which doesn't really address what he and I had been debating/discussing. You assert it should have the extra saves, and now you say it doesn't matter.

The set bonus had been raised in the thread, I just commented that it should be better, because I had previously given it some thought. Then when you raised it in your reply, I dismissed it as being unimportant to the main subject of the eClaw set in order to get on with the conversation about that. Get it now?

As for the items being improved, the ones from the Carnival and Sentinels did get upgraded, and some in very significant ways.Grim's and Brawn's in particular went from junk to top tier items. Genasi was clearly listening to suggestions made in those threads.

I had pretty much given up on Fens items being upgraded, the House P/D upgrades happened ages ago. My comment is based on my impressions of what has happened to the game as a whole, on the suggestions I read in threads like these and the conversations I get into with people about them.

At the moment, you could literally make all the items twice as powerful, +7 in each ability bonus, Green slots all around, double the potency of the set bonus and Melee classes would still be behind Caster classes in power. So no, I really don't think that having a Green slot on the Epic Bracers of the Claw, as opposed to a Colorless or Yellow slot, would push that particular item, even considering the set bonus, into the realms of being overpowered.

Putting it in context, how about we throw on some features like 'The threat range of your weapons is tripled', 'Your attacks gain Stunning +10, Vertigo +10 and Crippling', 'Your Stunning Blow timer now has no cooldown', 'All your attacks gain 10% doublstrike' and we can start to address the real imbalances in this game. I don't think wanting a Green slot over a Colorless or Yellow slot on a melee item qualifies as unbalanced in the bigger picture.

[sephiroth1084]

The end there is a pretty ridiculous and not very useful statement/suggestion.

Melee items are being compared to other melee items, not to the entirety of casters' OPness. Doing so wouldn't be useful, and the imbalances really should not be fixed by putting a bunch of effects on a few hard to acquire items. That's not how you balance the game.

The Epic Brawling Gloves are not all that good for non-unarmed characters. +7 Str is nice, but not a huge bonus and can be found on more attractive items. Having SA +4 on there makes them more attractive, but many, many melees are wearing or trying to wear the Tharne's Goggles, which are in a weaker slot, provide more utility (True Seeing) and a bigger bonus with their SA +5.

The issue is with what the Bracers and set are competing with. What other bracers does a melee want to wear? Maybe Epic Scorched? And those are just a blue slot (Heavy Fort) and the set bonus. The Greater Fire Resist is nice, but we have ship buffs, party members, and other places to put that, so it isn't incredible. What other bracers are there to compete with the Claw? They're already pretty close to best in slot for many melee without a slot at all. Giving them a green slot likely makes them best in slot for all non-monks who can fit in 3-piece Abishai elsewhere, and good enough that most people will try to do so.

Then you have to look at the set bonus, which is pretty desirable. The gloves are the stronger item of the two, so they are the most likely to get included without a second thought, but then it's a question of wearing the bracers or the Epic Gem of Many Facets. Well, what competition do we have for trinkets? Litany of the Dead is a huge competitor. Brawn's Spirits is the natural alternative to the bracers, augmenting the Intim from the gloves, replicating the +2 Con from the bracers, and offering a slot that could fulfill the Heavy Fort need--wearing both probably isn't worthwhile to most characters. The Spyglass is nice for some characters, but I can't see many DPS-focused melee wearing it full time. The Blood Stone is still attractive for some characters.

Also, how many places are there to get +2 Con? ToD rings, on which you probably prefer +2 Str (irrelevant if the gloves get changed as proposed), +20% healing amp or bursts, and wearing two rings these days is less attractive than it had been with some of the strong rings, belts and necklace options we have. Ring of Baphomet. What else?

I want to see the items improved, but I don't feel that the best melee set in the Red Fens, and two of the best melee items for endgame wear, need to get improved upon all that much. And as for ToD rings vs. epics, ToD is more difficult than three of the four quests in this pack, typically take longer to acquire if you're after a good one, and as a set really aren't offering as much as the claw set with slots would. Besides, they aren't in competition, and the ring slot is in greater competition than it was.

[Astraghal]

The end there is a pretty ridiculous and not very useful statement/suggestion.

I think I'm sensing a little hostility here.

I'm not really looking to balance the items in this pack with other existing currently desired melee items. I'm looking to balance the items in the bigger picture of the current game. I think all melee items need to be stronger, except the eSoS.

I'm not geting into a multi-page argument discussing the minutiae and relative merits of this or that item. I just wanted to give my opinion, based on my overall experience of the game, from making and using the items discussed and the overall direction the game is moving in.

I think that's all the validation I need to have one, or do you disagree with that too?

I've put forward my opinion and reasoning behind it, so I'm not going to keep repeating myself. I don't think there's anything I can add to what I've already said. Simply put, I just don't believe the be all and end all argument for whether the Epic Bracers of the Claw should only get a Colorless or Yellow slot, rather than a Green slot, should be based on comparing it to 2nd or 3rd rate options. That doesn't mean the Epic Bracers of the Claw are adequately powerful, it just means the other options are so bad that the choice is a no-brainer.

Forget about the comment about the Sirens set, that was just a passing comment that I haven't even looked back on to see how your apparent confusion originated. We don't need to talk about that again. I said that I think that set bonus should be better, just because I saw it mentioned in the thread. I gave an opinion, in big threads like this, where people are giving feedback, confusion happens. It's nothing to get snarky about. Certainly not to the point of implying some kind of failure in the fundamental cognition of a poster.

If you want to spend the time and energy breaking down every situation and possible gear layout and do all those calculations in order to try to quantify and demonstrate why my idea is bad, be my guest. I mean you seem pretty intent on dismissing my opinion so far, it never ceases to amaze me how defensive forumites get over stuff like this.