Epic Item Review: Red Fens

[QuantumFX]

Screaming - does this even affect constructs? I wouldn't know, since I would never craft this item as is.

Yes. And if the target is a crystal it does purple numbers. Based off the theme of the weapon the only enchantment it’s missing is Rock Shattering.

[sweez]

how is curse immunity weaker than stun immunity? o_O, id take curse immun any day

You can drink anti-curse pots, you can't drink anti-stun pots?

[Diyon]

My Sorc's TTS works on trash in ToD (not sure on elite). They probably have the outer limit of non-epic HD.

Since epic trash got their Deathblock removed, the eSouleater really took a hit as the only weapon that could instantly kill in epics. It should be given something better. Change epic TTS to Devour Soul, which has the added effect of casting Greater Restoration and Heal on you (removing and negative levels, stat damage, disease, poison, HP damage, etc). That would make it really lucrative for soloing melees.

ETTS works on anything that isn't red/purple named, and fails its save. It works less so on epic monsters than it did, only because of the save increase.

But I mostly agree here, it needs a bit of recalibrating on that ability. While I like your suggestion for it, it may be a bit much, but if something like that was done I'd probably say screw using DR breakers on DR20, maybe 25, as well.

In anycase, its still a very good item as is, even removing ETTS, and there was dev comment about recalibrating that ability potentially.

[TheDearLeader]

I think you tremendously undervalue healing amp.

~~snip snip~~

If the Claw gloves did nothing but give the 30% healing amp and had no set bonus (and no slots), I'd still wear them on two toons.

Healing amp *is* important, and 30% *is* great. At least, until they make another item have the same ability.

But the Str +6 is redundant on almost any build. I see you address my "undervaluing" of healing amp, but not my suggestion to change the attribute from Str +6 to Colorless slot.

The Claw set needs the least work out of any set in the Red Fens. I agree. But the overabundance of +6 Stats on Epic Items, even the good ones, irks the everliving hell outta me. The +6 Stat is obsolete well before you've even made the item.

You can drink anti-curse pots, you can't drink anti-stun pots?

Well.... Anti-Curse? No. Remove Curse. Not something that makes you immune.

Total Curse Immunity (including Healing Curse) means even a no-AC fleshie could tank VoD on any difficulty, no problem, no concern that they'll get cursed at an inopportune time.

Heal removes the "stunned" status, btw. So while there isn't a Pot for it, there is a way for a friendly Cleric/FvS/UMDer to end it for you prior to it's intended duration.

[Monkey_Archer]

Epic Boots of the Mire: Boots, Balance 15, Underwater Action

<snip>

Add Crippling immunity to the boots (think archers in eDQ), which isn't found anywhere else in the game.

Epic Ring of the Mire: Ring, Greater Spearblock, Epic Fort Save +3, Earthen Guard
<snip>
Upgrade Earthen Guard to Greater Earthen Guard (increased proc rate), which isn't found anywhere else. Earthen Guard and Greater Earthen Guard should stack with one another. That will make it compelling for certain situations (tanking) or build concepts.

Greater Marshwalker Set: Ring and Boots of the Mire, 30% striding, +15 jump

<snip>

With what you have to give up to wear this set, I'd like to see 30% Striding replaced with 10% exceptional Striding. Move the 30% Striding to the boots.

Jump should be replaced with Tumble. The competence bonus should be increased to +20. Even with a Tumble spell, that's only 30 Tumble which is still just a novelty for someone with zero ranks in the skill. Someone will full ranks could manage a Tumble in the 60s. Still mostly a novelty, but it's cool.

I like the ideas here, but completely disagree with the jump to tumble argument. Tumble is a nearly useless skill and doesn't fit the theme of the set (who tumbles in a mire?) Jump is useful for all characters, and fits the theme better.
Also, I'd rather see the set bonus get more of the upgrade, rather then upgrade the individual items on their own.
Suggestions:
-move striding 30% to boots
-move UA to the set bonus
-move crippling immunity to the set bonus
-instead of increasing the proc rate on earthen guard (which already has a fairly high rate) just increase the caster level of the stoneskin to 15

Epic Gloves of the Claw : Gloves, Healing Amp 30%, Str 6, Intimidate 5 (enhancement bonus)

<snip>

Upgrade Strength to +7. Epic gear deserves epic stats. Even the easily obtainable Epic Brawling Gloves have +7 Strength.

"epic deserves epic" is a terrible argument on a best-in-slot item. Healing amp 30% is the epic stat for this item. If anything the str +6 should be replaced with a colorless slot.

Epic Elder’s Focus: Necklace, Archmagi, Efficient Metamagic Extend II, Illusion Focus

<snip>

Suggested Changes:

Archmagi isn't special anymore, and is available in several places on epic gear (and many more slots for non-epic). Consider upgrading this to Wizardry IX or Wizardry X, which will make every caster want it, even if it's just to swap in temporarily before a shrine for small SP boost over Archmagi.

Replace Efficient Metamagic Extend II with Efficient Metamagic Heighten II (which doesn't exist on any items currently; should be -2 SP per Heightened spell). Many arcanes and some divines have dropped Extend altogether. The SP savings won't match the SP gain from Torc, but it may be enough with the other effects to keep this worn by some wizards and sorcerers.

Greater Focus (+2 DC) should be the minimum focus level for all epic items, since +1 DC is easily accommodated through a yellow augment slot. So this should minimally be Greater Illusion Focus, and you should consider making this Epic Illusion Focus so arcanes desire to wear it full time for Phantasmal Killer.

I'm not sure how likely Wizardry IX or wizardry X is to debut on this item... however a possible alternative could be +50 and +100 greater elemental spell power, as an alternative to a shroud sp item.
Heighten II would allow wizards to heighen spell for free, so perhaps Heighen I would be more likely.
Greater Illusion focus? Yes. Epic illuion focus? Only if the illusionist' robe gets it first

Greater Elder’s Knowledge: Epic Elder’s Cap and Focus, +6% chance to crit and .50 multiplier to Elemental spells

<snip>

Suggested Changes:

No changes needed. Considering wizards would rather wear Lion-headed Belt Buckle for the Shaken effect, I think this set bonus is reasonable because of the slots it occupies (only if the necklace and cap are improved as detailed above). Asking for Major Lore (9% crit) would only be self serving.

I'd suggest that this be given +3%, +0.25 as a stacking bonus to crits. As is, its a completely useless bonus as nearly every caster will use some form of major lore.

Epic Necklace of Venom: Necklace, Superior False Life, Protection +5, Proof against Poison

<snip>

This is obviously intended to be an item worn by tanks.

Suggested Changes:

Upgrade Protection to +6. Epic items, epic protection.

Replace Proof against Poison with a Greater Poison proc for melee weapons (the offensive version of Greater Poison Guard found on Epic Envenomed Cloak).

Epic Ring of Venom: Ring, Sneak Attack 4, Dex 6

<snip>

Suggested Changes:

Upgrade Sneak Attack to +5 at a minimum, so this can replace Tharnes Goggles. Consider upgrading this to Sneak Attack +6. Epic mobs do have higher AC and HP than non-epic, so the extra to-hit and to-damage from SA+6 would be welcomed.

Upgrade Dexterity to +7 (like the Epic Ring of the Buccaneer). Epic items should have epic stats.

Greater Vulkoor’s Cunning: Epic Ring and Necklace of Venom, -20% threat, Vulkorim poison on vorpal.

Analysis:

-20% Threat is one of the least desirable effects for melee. The only ones that care about it are those with the epic Claw set who aslo play with undergeared tanks (ie, they'll pull aggro off the tank). Considering every melee will be aiming for the Shintao set for the exceptional +2 hit/damage, this set needs to be competitive with the Shintao set.

Vulkorim Poison on Vorpal is worthless for three reasons: It doesn't happen frequently enough to matter, stat damage to epic trash mobs doesn't last long enough and it requires a fort save (which will be high for epic mobs).

Suggested Changes:

Replace the -20% Threat with a Greater Deception proc that works on red and purple named mobs.

Replace the Vulkorim Poison on Vorpal with an exceptional Sneak Attack Bonus +1 hit/+2 damage.

Both of those suggestions retain the "cunning" flavor of this item set.

These items are obviously NOT intended for tanks, and i have no idea how that was implied
I agree with upgrading the sneak attack and/or dex 7 on the ring. Alternatively, replace dex 6 with exeptional dex +2 and a colorless slot so that it can properly replace a TOD ring.

-20% threat is one of the most powerful abilities for any high dps melee thats not tanking, especially for the rogue-types that this set was designed for.
I agree that the poison effect need some help, but i'd suggest it be upgraded to deal real damage instead of being removed for sneak attack... perhaps 10D6 poison damage on vorpal, similar to charged gauntlets.

Epic Raven’s Sight: Goggles, Exceptional Wis +2, Epic Will Save +3, True Seeing

<snip>

Suggested Changes:

The item needs something to make it compelling without the set bonus. Perhaps +3 exceptional to-hit bonus?

+3 exeptional to hit might work, but seems off to me... maybe just give the goggles a slot?
Also, epic will save is broken atm, so that should be fixed to stack properly.

Epic Raven’s Talons: Gloves, Dex 6, Bluff 15

<snip>

Suggested Changes:

Upgrade Dexterity to +7. Epic items deserve epic stats.

Upgrade Bluff +15 to Bluff +20. Epic items deserve epic skill bonuses.

Even with those two changes, it's still lackluster. I'd like to see Slicing added to the gloves, which is similar to Spike-Studded for the Epic Brawling Gloves. It fits the flavor of the item, too (talons).

I agree with this. Gloves have basically become the most valuable slot for any melee, and there are no good reasons to waste this slot as opposed to the gem trinket if you want the set bonus.

Greater Shaman's Fury: Epic Shaman's Beads and Band, 40% dmg to 8th level and lower elemental spells

Analysis:

Amrath belt clickies are more than adequate to make this set bonus irrelevant.

Suggested Changes:

I'd suggest increasing the bonus from Greater to Epic, but that conflicts with the revamped Epic Ring of Elemental Essence. Consider a 3% crit chance and 0.25 crit modifier for elemental spells that stacks with all other sources of crit chance and crit modifiers.

Increasing the bonus from greater to epic would be good... alternatively, a stacking +10% bonus might fit the theme better. Crit chance/multiplier is already an effect designed for the elder's set.

[Astraghal]

My suggestions in green.

Epic Boots of the Mire: Boots, Balance 15, Underwater Action

Analysis:

There is no compelling reason to wear this item as it's currently itemized:

Balance isn't a strong enough skill to warrant devoting a gear slot to it most of the time. Even when it's desired, it's easy enough to find randomly generated loot, or acquire Hobnail Boots from the Co6 end chain reward.

Underwater Action has no place on epic gear. It's only ever swapped in situationally (and can be avoided altogether if you know the quest well enough), and can easily be replaced by Potion of Water Breathing without using a valuable gear slot.

Suggested Changes:

The boots need a compelling reason to wear them, regardless of the set bonus. Add Crippling immunity to the boots (think archers in eDQ), which isn't found anywhere else in the game. It's still situational but useful, and it fits the theme.

Change the icon on these boots so they don't look similar to Boots of Anchoring.

Epic Boots of the Mire

Greater Marshwalker
Balance +20
Underwater Action
Immunity to Slippery Surfaces
Empty Colorless Slot

These would now be situationally useful.

Epic Ring of the Mire: Ring, Greater Spearblock, Epic Fort Save +3, Earthen Guard

Analysis:

Greater Spearblock is not a bad effect, just situational.

Epic Fort Save +3 is lackluster when you consider how much focus is given to CON for every reasonably built character, even casters.

Earthen Guard is a nice effect, but found on other more desirable items.

Suggested Changes:

Upgrade Earthen Guard to Greater Earthen Guard (increased proc rate), which isn't found anywhere else. Earthen Guard and Greater Earthen Guard should stack with one another. That will make it compelling for certain situations (tanking) or build concepts.

Epic Ring of the Mire

Greater Spearblock
Epic Foritude Save +3
Epic Earthen Guard
Empty Yellow Slot

I think this item is great as it is, except we need to boost Earthen Guard to proc a CL:20 Stoneskin.

Greater Marshwalker Set: Ring and Boots of the Mire, 30% striding, +15 jump

Analysis:

30% Striding is desired by every non-arcane. Playing DDO without Striding feels annoyingly lethargic. However, it's not good enough of an effect to warrant as a set bonus.

+15 Jump is not desired at all. Morah's Belt provides +30 jump, which is 75% of the cap. Even for casters who dump jump or Strength, 30 Jump is enough for most occasions. When you absolutely have to have 40 Jump, then you swap in a jump item temporarily to make the jump and swap it out immediately. Increasing this to +20 Jump, or changing it to a different bonus isn't going to change it's relevance.

Suggested Changes:

With what you have to give up to wear this set, I'd like to see 30% Striding replaced with 10% exceptional Striding. Move the 30% Striding to the boots.

Jump should be replaced with Tumble. The competence bonus should be increased to +20. Even with a Tumble spell, that's only 30 Tumble which is still just a novelty for someone with zero ranks in the skill. Someone will full ranks could manage a Tumble in the 60s. Still mostly a novelty, but it's cool.

Greater Marshwalker

30% Striding
+20 Jump
Freedom of Movement

I was thinking maybe the set bonus could provide immunity to any movement impeding effect, but I think that would be too powerful.

[Crazyfruit]

Hi Ying, responses on this one in yellow.
No other items are relevant to my interests.

Epic Shatterbow: +6 longbow (2d8 base), 20/x3, Screaming, Greater Construct Bane, Improved Destruction, Move Silently -10, Red Augment

Screaming - does this even affect constructs? I wouldn't know, since I would never craft this item as is.

Half of them I've tried a shatterbow on were immune, maybe more.

Greater Construct Bane is fine, but if I'm going to use a construct beater, it's going to have Holy, Anarchic or Vicious for the added 2d6 per hit.

Vicious isn't available on bows. Almost all non-portal constructs are immune to the others, and we can use arrows for them when needed.

-10 Move Silently: I maintain that epic items should not have negative stat or skill modifiers. I'd expect to find this on a non-epic named item.

This is actually a bonus! Very fitting/smart design by the dev putting it in a stealth dungeon.

There are times you want to make noise, to distract monsters, while stealthing. Most named items giving bonuses for sneakers raise both the hide & move silently skills, which basically means you can't swap those out.

And yes, I actually do swap the shatterbow in & out for this. It should be a much bigger negative though to be even better - at high levels monsters have so much variance in their listen skills it often won't drop a stealth character's by enough. -50 would be awesome.

Replace Greater Construct Bane with Destruction. Now the item has a niche, as an armor reducer. Bows users in particular are at a disadvantage to TWF in terms of wielding a Destruction and Improved Destruction weapon at the same time.

I just swap bows and use something better than a destruction one after it lands if I'm having lots of trouble hittin something. Can't remember the last time my archers needed to use both destructions. Currently it consolidates both that role & construct beater (yay, extra inventory slot!), and is slightly better than a +5 of Smiting on sonic-immunes if I did my math right. Sure, no vorpal strike, but an archer's +550 dmg on 20s already cover that.

I don't have any other suggestions to improve it because it's already useful enough IMO. Covers things a Greensteel or Silver/Sinew bows won't. I do like QuantumFX's idea of throwing on Rock Shattering though. Wouldn't work on more than a handful of monsters in highest level quests, but good for flavor & teamwork with a Flesh to Stone user. Nice bonus for those shintao zen archers too.

Re: Boots of the Mire, several other items use the Boots of Anchoring icon. Probably better to change that one

No one can groove like the girls with the hooves.

[Astraghal]

My suggestions in green.

Epic Necklace of Venom: Necklace, Superior False Life, Protection +5, Proof against Poison

Analysis:

Superior False Life is a great effect, and not found on randomly generated loot.

Protection +5 is only useful for builds that care about AC. That excludes most characters.

Proof against Poison is one of the weakest immunity effects. It's easily mitigated by 7-minute duration Neutralize Poison potions. You can add it to a yellow augment slot if it's that important to you.

This is obviously intended to be an item worn by tanks.

Suggested Changes:

Upgrade Protection to +6. Epic items, epic protection.

Replace Proof against Poison with a Greater Poison proc for melee weapons (the offensive version of Greater Poison Guard found on Epic Envenomed Cloak).

Epic Necklace of Venom

Greater Vulkoor's Cunning
Proof Against Poison
Superior False Life
Protection +6
Empty Green Slot

I think the extra Deflection bonus and a Green Slot is all this item needs.

Epic Ring of Venom: Ring, Sneak Attack 4, Dex 6

Analysis:

Sneak Attack +4 is weak when you consider that every melee will be wearing Tharnes Goggles, or otherwise have SA+5 elsewhere.

Dex +6 is easily accommodated elsewhere by ToD rings, or through colorless epic augment slots.

Suggested Changes:

Upgrade Sneak Attack to +5 at a minimum, so this can replace Tharnes Goggles. Consider upgrading this to Sneak Attack +6. Epic mobs do have higher AC and HP than non-epic, so the extra to-hit and to-damage from SA+6 would be welcomed.

Upgrade Dexterity to +7 (like the Epic Ring of the Buccaneer). Epic items should have epic stats.

Epic Ring of Venom

Greater Vulkoor's Cunning
Dexterity +7
Sneak Attack Bonus +5
Empty Yellow Slot

I like most of your suggestions for this item, adding a Yellow Slot would finish it off nicely.

Greater Vulkoor’s Cunning: Epic Ring and Necklace of Venom, -20% threat, Vulkorim poison on vorpal.

Analysis:

-20% Threat is one of the least desirable effects for melee. The only ones that care about it are those with the epic Claw set who aslo play with undergeared tanks (ie, they'll pull aggro off the tank). Considering every melee will be aiming for the Shintao set for the exceptional +2 hit/damage, this set needs to be competitive with the Shintao set.

Vulkorim Poison on Vorpal is worthless for three reasons: It doesn't happen frequently enough to matter, stat damage to epic trash mobs doesn't last long enough and it requires a fort save (which will be high for epic mobs).

Suggested Changes:

Replace the -20% Threat with a Greater Deception proc that works on red and purple named mobs.

Replace the Vulkorim Poison on Vorpal with an exceptional Sneak Attack Bonus +1 hit/+2 damage.

Both of those suggestions retain the "cunning" flavor of this item set.

Greater Vulkoor's Cunning

-20% Threat
Epic Deception
Powerful Vulkoorim Poison

I like the idea of Greater Deception, but I feel that there are starting to be too many degrees of effects nomenclature. These effects need to be intuitive, predictable and standardized by their power. We already have varying degrees of random loot generated effects alongside their improved, greater, superior and Epic counterparts. I'm for having Epic effects on Epic items, although in this case the 'greater' descriptor is in line with the name of the set bonus.

Epic Deception could be allowed to work on red/purple named mobs, as well as granting either a +5 Competence bonus or +20 Enhancement bonus to the wearer's Bluff skill.

I would like to see the poison effect improved from it's current state, perhaps also making enemies Sickened and slowing them down like Troglodyte Stench does. Maybe also have the set confer a ~5% Slay Living proc on weapons with a DC 35 Fortitude save.

[LittleM]

One thing I really don't like to see, is higly specialised melee items.

Protection +5 is only useful for builds that care about AC. That excludes most characters.

If we want versatility in buils and not carbon copies, epic items need effects that are not usefull to most builds along with what everybody wants.

AC is the worse as equiping for it forces you into obscure, otherwise bad items. What is needed is the common AC effects on good epic items. What is not needed is new AC effects that stack, fueling the arms race between player AC and mob to-hit. It's about time for dodge +4 and +3 on epic items.

[Astraghal]

Actually I think what we really need is some of the common effects available as craftable options in slots.

[Soleran]

"epic deserves epic" is a terrible argument on a best-in-slot item. Healing amp 30% is the epic stat for this item. If anything the str +6 should be replaced with a colorless slot.

Putting a colorless slot on this item would be a bad idea. It's already the best epic 2 piece in game for 99% of melee.

[Astraghal]

My suggestions in green.

Epic Raven’s Sight: Goggles, Exceptional Wis +2, Epic Will Save +3, True Seeing

Analysis:

Exceptional Wisdom +2 is useful for Clerics, Favored Souls and Monks to improve DCs. For everyone else, it's just +1 Will Save or that much closer to activating the Wisdom runes in VON5.

Epic Will Save +3 is situationally useful.

True Seeing is a must for every melee character, but can be obtained from a divine in a group or raid situation.

It's not that these combined effects are inferior, but rather that they are competing against Tharnes Goggles. Melee won't ever use this item unless they already have another source of Sneak Attack Bonus +5 (from Tharnes Goggles) as SA+5 is simply too good of an effect to do without.

Suggested Changes:

The item needs something to make it compelling without the set bonus. Perhaps +3 exceptional to-hit bonus?

Epic Raven's Sight

Greater Raven's Eye
Exceptional Wisdom +2
Epic Will Save +3
True Seeing
Empty Colorless Slot

While True Seeing isn't as good as it used to be, before items like Teraza's Perfect Sight and the Treasure Hunter's Spyglass were introduced, it's still a powerful effect to have on a single item. I think adding a Colorless Slot is all this needs.

Epic Raven’s Talons: Gloves, Dex 6, Bluff 15

Analysis:

Dexterity +6 can be easily accommodated elsewhere through epic colorless augments.

Bluff +15 can be situationally useful.

If it didn't have a purple background to designate it's an epic item, you could easily mistake this for randomly generated loot.

Suggested Changes:

Upgrade Dexterity to +7. Epic items deserve epic stats.

Upgrade Bluff +15 to Bluff +20. Epic items deserve epic skill bonuses.

Even with those two changes, it's still lackluster. I'd like to see Slicing added to the gloves, which is similar to Spike-Studded for the Epic Brawling Gloves. It fits the flavor of the item, too (talons).

Epic Raven's Talons

Greater Raven's Eye
Dexterity +6
Bluff +20
Seeker +6

I think Seeker +6 would give this item a nice bump.

Greater Raven’s Eye: Epic Raven’s Talons and Sight, +4 to-hit, +3 stacking spot and search

Analysis:

+4 to-hit that stacks with everything is highly desired by nearly every melee.

+3 stacking Spot and Search is so-so, but nothing I'd ever use the set for.

The problem is that the slots for this set conflict with two highly desired items: Tharnes Goggles and Epic Gloves of the Claw. If the Gem of Many Facets is modified to work with either item in a set, then that may be enough to include this set bonus into some high-end gear sets. Typically it's just much easier to acquire Tharnes Goggles and Epic Spectral Gloves, which leaves you free to use Litany of the Dead instead of the Gem.

Suggested Changes:

Nothing, as long as Epic Gem of Many Facets is being changed to allow either item to count towards the set bonus.

Greater Raven's Eye

+4 to-hit
+3 Stacking bonus to Spot and Search
Exceptional Seeker +4

Getting +4 to-hit is nice for a lot of builds, but this set bonus needs something more to justify 2 slots, I think Exceptional Seeker +4 would make this more desirable. You would need to find an alternative source of Seeker +6 if you were using the Epic Gem of Many Facets for the set bonus, but you could stack this set bonus with the Greater Bold Trinket for maxiumum effect.

Epic Sacred Helm: Helm, Deathblock, Radiance Guard, Eternal Faith

Analysis:

Deathblock is only useful when you're fighting Beholders. Otherwise everyone has access to Death Ward (Visors of the Flesh Render).

Radiance Guard is ok, but Clerics/FvS wearing this item will most likely have Holy Aura anyway for the blind-when-hit proc, reducing the desirability.

Turning undead is another mechanic that just doesn't work well in DDO. With current end-game content, Eternal Faith is simply not a desired effect.

Suggested Changes:

Change Radiance Guard to apply the Radiance proc to your melee weapons. Non-clerics might wear this item just for this ability, but it conflicts with other popular melee helms (Red Dragon, Helm of Frost for 3pc Abishai).

Replace Eternal Faith with a Superior Radiance IX clicky effect (last 3-minutes, 75% damage to light spells).

Epic Sacred Helm

Greater Divine Blessing
Deathblock
Eternal Faith
Radiance Guard
Blindness Immunity
Fear Immunity
Empty Yellow Slot


Pretty good item as it is, if anything either add a Yellow Slot and/or Blindness and Fear immunity.

[Qezuzu]

-20% Threat
Epic Deception
Powerful Vulkoorim Poison

Epic Deception could be allowed to work on red/purple named mobs, as well as granting either a +5 Competence bonus or +20 Enhancement bonus to the wearer's Bluff skill.

Deception already works on bosses, and it's a really dangerous effect that will make bosses turn around and cleave all the flanking attackers while the healers are still focused on the main tank. It's really only good for soloing rogues, but they would use RadII on trash and the new and improved Bluff on bosses anyway.

Improving the poison is all this set needs. Massive bane damage with a save is what I think would be good, or >5 backstabbing.

[SableShadow]

Deception already works on bosses, and it's a really dangerous effect that will make bosses turn around and cleave all the flanking attackers while the healers are still focused on the main tank.

Agreed.

It's really only good for soloing rogues,

Actually works quite well on bosses you "box n' spank" as opposed to "tank n' spank".

Epic Deception on an item

There was a time I'd give my eye teeth for something like this, but now I'm leaning the other way ... unless they fix the blind-spin-around effect to be blind-spin-around-but-always-opposite-me.

Also, with Improved Deception coming on the Spy Dagger and Midnight Greetings, I think we should hold off on more Deception effects. One *can* have too much of a good thing.

[sweez]

Well.... Anti-Curse? No. Remove Curse. Not something that makes you immune.

Total Curse Immunity (including Healing Curse) means even a no-AC fleshie could tank VoD on any difficulty, no problem, no concern that they'll get cursed at an inopportune time.

Heal removes the "stunned" status, btw. So while there isn't a Pot for it, there is a way for a friendly Cleric/FvS/UMDer to end it for you prior to it's intended duration.

Wrong wording, however, fact is you can remove a curse effect on yourself any time you want to (limited only by curse pot cooldowns) - and you can't remove a stun effect on yourself any time you want to, thus an item providing immunity to stun is much more powerful than an item providing immunity to curses.

I've seen non-AC fleshies tank VoD on any difficulty, on elite you *might* need a dedicated anti-curser that just targets the tank and throws a non-guild remove curs pot every cooldown; on normal/hard the tank can take care of his own curses via pots without any issues.

Sure, a divine or anyone who can UMD a heal scroll can break the stun on you, but unless you have voice, by the time you type out "I'm stunned throw me a heal plz" the stun is most likely already gone.

[oradafu]

I can get behind the bodyfeeder affect being upgraded, but I think you're really undervaluing the bodyfeeder effect on a 17-20 crit with vampirism included.

But honestly? This item is fine the way it is. Ask any acrobat and if they don't say this weapon is awesome and the best acrobat weapon, they'll at least put it in the top three. The only thing I can recall acrobats requesting is that the Epic Trap the Soul effect (and it IS EPIC trap the soul, not regular trap the soul) have its save removed since its not a high proc rate to begin with and epic monsters just had their saves boosted. I believe a dev has already commented on this potentially being done.

Also, I want to keep my +2 profane STR thank you. I don't have, nor intend to use a 3pc abishai set for that bonus when I can get right on my primary weapon. Also this would lower my stunning DC. Just because something else has a +2 profane bonus to STR doesn't mean nothing else should. Especially when this item needs no help in getting used or liked.

Another thing to keep in mind is that this weapon is just barely behind a +5 metalline pg staff against a DR15 enemy. Counting in the bodyfeeder/vampirism, I don't pull out a DR breaker on my acrobat unless the DR is more than 15.

I have to agree with almost everything Diyon said here. It is THE acrobats best weapon currently. The Epic Souleater just needs the Epic Trap the Soul save removed. I find the bodyfeeder to be fine currently, since it goes off constantly. Keep the +2 Profane STR, since not everyone is using the staff will have the Abishai set (or even intend to get the Abishai set).

[oradafu]

About the Greater Vulkoor's Cunning set, there just needs to be a few tweaks, in my opinion. They are Rogue items that can be useful for other classes, but they are Rogue items.

Personally, I find the Epic Necklace of Venom fine as is. I don't see anything on it that needs to be dropped. Could something be added to it? Of course, but I'm not sure if this item really needs anything besides maybe a slot added to it.

The Epic Ring of Venom does need some tweaks though. All Rogue rings from Amrath have +6 Dex, plus several other Rogue items (both Epic and non-epic) have +6 Dex. The Dex should be +7 or exceptional +2. I also agree that the Sneak Attack bonus should be at least equal to Tharnes, if not better.

The Greater Vulkoor's Cunning set bonus could use a bit of tweaking also. The -20% Threat is a great bonus and shouldn't be tampered with (unless that gets boosted that is!). Unless things changed since I TRed (and unable to use the item currently), the Vulkoorim Poison didn't work in Epics. Outside of Epics, it eats up practically all trash when it goes off. The poison should work on some trash in epics.

I'd add one more thing to the set bonus. I was thinking maybe a Paralyzing Poison Guard, a guard that does no damage but stuns/paralyzes/dazes the attacker if they fail a fort save.

[Melt-emi]

Epic Necklace of Venom: Necklace, Superior False Life, Protection +5, Proof against Poison

CUT

Epic Ring of Venom: Ring, Sneak Attack 4, Dex 6

CUT

Greater Vulkoor’s Cunning: Epic Ring and Necklace of Venom, -20% threat, Vulkorim poison on vorpal

CUT

I strongly disagree here:

-20% is desiderable for rogues, wich are supposed to wear this set and imo the necklace is not "obviously intended to be an item worn by tanks". SFL gives 10hp more than GFL and that little boost can make the difference if you are in the range of 350-400hp, while it is almost worthless if you have 650+ hp.

Greater Deception all time long is not desirable on any melee and someone else already stated it.

I agree here:

both items and whole set give poor stats/bonus'es, need some improvement. More Sneak Attack bonus is welcome, +4 is pointless on epic items. As you said this set wants to compete with Shintao Set, so upgrading Sneak Attack to 6 or more wouldn't be a bad idea.

Poison proc on vorpal is nice just for flavor: on epic is nearly useless, it needs to be replaced. Exceptional Intelligence +2 would be nice instead of Poison on vorpal, here comes the cunning.

[Nospheratus]

Like the idea, but how do you put an active feat on an item?

Maybe the feat should instead improve the existing "bluff feat" instead of being a different one. In that case, it would be as simple as it is with items that have feats like precise shot or mobility.

[Carpone]

Lots of great suggestions and discussion so far. Please keep them coming.

I do have quicken. I just don't have many occasions to use it. My concentration gets me through most things just fine. Getting hammered in epic quests, sure I'll turn it on to pop off some neg energy bursts. But otherwise I don't really need to use it.

Epic Elder’s Cap - As you said Concentration is useless, why make it +20? Better add: Efficient Metamagic Quicken II, since all casters use it. It would really make that item with +7 Int very desired for Wizards.

I really like your Efficient Metamagic - Quicken II suggestion over my Concentration suggestion. Concentration in non-epic quests works fine. The problem is with epic content. 23 base skill + 15 competence + 6 CON bonus = 44 + 1d20. That value has to exceed 10 + level of spell + amount of incoming damage. It's simply too easy for a wizard's spell to be interrupted (compared to a sorc, who has innate Quicken-like casting speed).

I like a fair few of these suggestions, but can't get behind anything to make the Claw gloves any better (by giving them 7 Str). [...] The 30% healing amp alone would be enough reason to seriously consider these gloves on a lot of toons. Add the set bonus, and you have one of the best Epic items in the game.

We know why people go for the gloves - the healing amp, and the set bonus. But as a standalone, this is hardly more powerful than, say, Levik's Bracers. [...] But the Str +6 is redundant on almost any build. [...] The Claw set needs the least work out of any set in the Red Fens. I agree. But the overabundance of +6 Stats on Epic Items, even the good ones, irks the everliving hell outta me. The +6 Stat is obsolete well before you've even made the item.

Do we really need three +6 STR items worn at the same time?

Instead of +7 Strength or an augment slot, why not +2 exceptional STR instead? It's only available on ToD rings and Epic Cape of the Roc. That would get melee one step closer to not wearing two ToD rings, which this game needs if melee are ever going to seriously consider other ring options.