How will Artificier play on DDO if it gets released?

[Zachski]

I ask this because, quite frankly, I really don't see what's so great about it. It's a crafting class, which is awesome... but everyone can already do that. While some people see the crafting system being released as a hint for Artificier, it seems to be the opposite for me, since it's essentially replacing a big part of what Artificiers do.

From what I understand of it, it's a casting class that can't cast, but instead imbues. While this is kinda interesting, it also makes things a bit awkward to do.

So, uh... what's up with it? Why is everyone so excited and pushing for it?

[karhon]

Simple. It's new and different.

[Zachski]

Simple. It's new and different.

So new and different that it doesn't even deserve its playstyle being mentioned? :P

[Meretrix]

They will buff the party's weapons with like bane and stuff and be able to wear heavy armor and disarm traps. They should also be able to make pots and wands.

[donfilibuster]

Let's put it this way, while some classes have varied class abilities to use in quests the artificer cover all their needs with items.

Need melee? craft some beaters; need magic? should indeed be able to make wands, scrolls and potions.
Healing? Clickies? Buffs? all set. Makes the artificer quite versatile.

But the artificer would be indeed lackluster if all were just crafting.
The infusions looks good enough, the UMD bonus would be unique and applying metamagic to items is nice.

The artificer by the book can do traps and surely craft them as well.
And don't forget the Hommunculus.

See http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/cwc/20060328a.

[Aesop]

I ask this because, quite frankly, I really don't see what's so great about it. It's a crafting class, which is awesome... but everyone can already do that. While some people see the crafting system being released as a hint for Artificier, it seems to be the opposite for me, since it's essentially replacing a big part of what Artificiers do.

From what I understand of it, it's a casting class that can't cast, but instead imbues. While this is kinda interesting, it also makes things a bit awkward to do.

So, uh... what's up with it? Why is everyone so excited and pushing for it?

I doubt that they will match the pnp class because much of what they do is outside of combat and in a combat MMO there abilities won't translate exactly...

I wrote something up on them though


here



Artificer

Alignment: Any
HD: d6
Skills per level: 4+Int Mod
Skills in Class: Concentration, Disable Device, Haggle, Open Locks, Search, Use Magic Device

BAB: Rogue
Fort Save: Poor
Reflex Save: Poor
Will Save: Good

Level 1: Artificer Knowledge, Artisan Bonus, Craft Reserve, Disable Traps, Item Creation, Scribe Scroll

Most of these abilities do not translate well into DDO. So they will need something a little different in many cases. In particular Artificer Knowledge, Craft reserve, Item Creation and Scribe Scroll don’t translate well in a system where Crafting is a function of a separate leveling process. Item Creation Feats are pretty much out. As Artificer contains as features a lot of Item Creation Feats that feature needs to be replaced by something to give as much spread as possible. We don’t want a feature to be front loaded or clumped in any level range and likewise we don’t want a lot of bare levels where nothing really new happens.

Artisan Bonus I see as being a Flat +2 Bonus to Use Magic Device with a possible increase at future levels, perhaps a further bonus at levels 5, 10, 15 and 20. Alternately this could be a +1 at each tier if a bonus of +10 seems too high.

Disable Traps is equivalent to the rogue Trapfinding ability.

While Turbine may involve crafting into the mechanics of the Artificer it is obvious that for MMO play they need something more to round them out. Considering the flavor of a class of builders I always figured on Artificer translating into something of a Pet Class. So to replace some of their level one abilities I would start them off with a Clockwork Companion.

The Clockwork Companion I would be an Iron Defender and as the class progresses they would improve the base Companion at different levels. Additionally there would be Enhancements to fill in the middle ground between Base upgrades that would help keep the Companions useful at all levels. Pets would have their own Action Bar that would allow a greater degree of control on the actions of the companion similar to the Hireling Bar.

Level 2: Brew Potion

Trapmaking I: This seems like a good spot to grant the Artificer the Trapmaking Feat similar to the Rogue Class. As Artificer is a crafting class it would not be pushing things too far if they received bonuses to their Traps similar to how the Mechanic PrE might. Perhaps every 4 levels beyond this they could gain further bonuses to their Traps. Additionally these seem a good way to mimic some of the flavor of the class with the ability to create Spell Traps.



Level 3: Craft Wondrous Item

Clockwork Companion II: This would seem a good place to start improving the Clockwork Companion. Perhaps an upgrade to a Reinforced Iron Defender would be good.


Level 4: Craft Homunculus, bonus feat

Bonus Feat: The bonus feat is fine. We don’t have to equally replace the abilities so Craft Homunculus can be just pushed off to the side for now; anyway we have Clockwork Companions to replace the ability earlier. Can choose the bonus feat from the following list: any Metamagic Feat, Skill Focus (Use Magic Device, Disable Device, Search, Open Locks), and maybe some other ones that I’m unsure of.

Level 5: Craft Magic Arms and Armor, Retain Essence

Artisan Bonus II: Either an extra +1 or a +2 depending on balance.


Level 6: Metamagic Spell Trigger

Metamagic Imbue: Instead of breaking down where Metamagic Feats would apply this would just let you apply them to Wands and Scrolls. The addition of Metamagic Feats would cost twice as many Spell Points as if casting a spell or infusion.

Trapmaking II: This would be a point upon which the Trapmaking ability of the Artificer would improve based on level, perhaps adding a bonus to damage and DC for either mines or grenades.

Level 7: Craft Wand

Clockwork Companion III: Here is where the Clockwork Companion really starts to ramp up and we get a Mithril Defender

Level 8: Bonus Feat

Bonus Feat: Leave the bonus feat as is.

Level 9: Craft Rod

Nothing

Level 10:

Artisan Bonus III: extra bonus to Use Magic Device.

Trapmaking III: An additional bonus to traps made by the Artificer.




Level 11: Metamagic Spell Completion

Improved Metamagic Imbue: Metamagic Feats applied to wands and scrolls would now cost their normal amount of Spell Points.
Clockwork Companion IV: This is where we get a new Clockwork Companion, and the last of the quadrupeds, an Adamantine Defender.

Level 12: Craft Staff, Bonus Feat

Bonus Feat: as normal

Level 13: Skill Mastery

Remove skill mastery

Level 14: Forge Ring

Trapmaking IV: bonus to traps made by artificer

Level 15:

Clockwork Companion V: A new Companion and the first biped, the Iron Golem.

Artisan Bonus IV: further bonus to UMD

Level 16: Bonus Feat

Bonus Feat: As normal


Level 17:

Nothing

Level 18:
Trapmaking V: Bonus to traps made by Artificer

Level 19:

Clockwork Companion VI: The final Clockwork Companion upgrade is the Warforged Juggernaut.

Level 20: Bonus Feat

Artisan Bonus V: final bonus to UMD.

Bonus Feat: Keep the bonus feat where it is.
Additionally Artificers have infusions which in table top are slightly different from spells but for simplicity sake we can just have them work the same way as spells. In table top infusions can only be cast upon objects and constructs, the objects can then confer the bonus onto the user of said object. To simplify this they can operate as buff effects instead. Artificers know all infusions of any level they can cast (similar to clerics) but can cast any of them that they know (like a sorcerer). There are infusions that would prove difficult to recreate here, but others are identical to spells that already exist.

There are 6 levels of Infusions. The list I think reasonably easy to do is as follows:

1st-Level Artificer Spells
Abjur • Ablative Armor: Reduce damage from next attack by 5 + caster level (max 15).
• Resistance Item: Item bestows +1 or better resistance bonus on saving throws.
• Shield of Faith: Aura grants +2 or higher deflection bonus.



Tran • Inflict Light Damage: Deals 1d8 + 1/level damage (maximum +5) to a construct.
• Lesser Armor Enhancement: Armor or shield gains special ability with +1 bonus market price modifier. This could be done with a short list of Enhancements and apply as a Buff effect.
• Magic Stone: Three stones gain +1 on attack, deal 1d6 +1 damage. Instead od three stones make it a single stone that does 1d6 per 2 levels with a 5d6 cap.
• Personal Weapon Augmentation: Your weapon gains special ability with +1 bonus market price modifier. Similar to the Lesser Armor Enhancement have this apply a single bonus Enhancement.
• Repair Light Damage: "Cures" 1d8+1/level (max +5) points of damage to a construct.
• Skill Enhancement: Item bestows circumstance bonus on skill checks.
2nd-Level Artificer Spells
Abjur • Elemental Prod: Move an elemental creature a short distance. A sort of bull rush against an elemental, perhaps with a knockdown ability.

Tran • Align Weapon: Weapon becomes good, evil, lawful, or chaotic. Makes a target swing as though the Aligned Property was applied
• Armor Enhancement: Armor or shield gains special ability with +3 bonus market price modifier. Same as Lesser Armor Enhancement.
• Bear's Endurance: Subject gains +4 to Con for 1 min./level.
• Bull's Strength: Subject gains +4 to Str for 1 min./level.
• Cat's Grace: Subject gains +4 to Dex for 1 min./level.
• Eagle's Splendor: Subject gains +4 to Cha for 1 min./level.
• Fox's Cunning: Subject gains +4 to Int for 1 min./level.
• Inflict Moderate Damage: Deals 2d8 + 1/level damage (maximum +10) to a construct.
• Lesser Construct Essence: Grants a living construct qualities of the construct type.
• Lesser Weapon Augmentation: Weapon gains special ability with +1 bonus market price modifier. Similar to Personal Weapon Augmentation only can be applied to another.
• Owl's Wisdom: Subject gains +4 to Wis for 1 min./level.
• Reinforce Construct: Construct gains 1d6 + 1/level temporary hit points.
• Repair Moderate Damage: "Cures" 2d8+1/level (max +10) points of damage to a construct.
• Toughen Construct: Grants construct +2 (or higher) enhancement to natural armor.
3rd-Level Artificer Spells
Abjur • Construct Energy Ward: As resist energy, except that the target must be a construct.
• Spell Snare: Dragonshard absorbs a spell or spell-like ability of up to 3rd level. Creates a spell absorbing effect.

Evoc • Blast Rod: Infused rod stores 1d8/level destructive energy.
Tran • Adamantine Weapon: Transform weapon into adamantine. Apply Adamantine as a property to the targets weapons.
• Greater Armor Enhancement: Armor or shield gains special ability with +5 bonus market price modifier.
• Inflict Serious Damage: Deals 3d8 + 1/level damage (maximum +15) to a construct.
• Lesser Humanoid Essence: Grants a construct the ability to accept healing magic. Improves the constructs susceptibility to Positive Energy.
• Power Surge: Charged spell trigger item gains temporary charges.
• Repair Serious Damage: "Cures" 3d8+1/level (max +15) points of damage to a construct.
• Stone Construct: Construct gains DR 10/adamantine.
4th-Level Artificer Spells
Abjur • Censure Elementals: Deal 2d4 + 1/level damage each round to elementals.
• Greater Construct Energy Ward: As protection from energy, except that the target must be a construct.
• Lesser Globe of Invulnerability: Stops 1st- through 3rd-level spell effects.

Tran • Concurrent Infusions: Cast three 1st-level infusions simultaneously.
• Humanoid Essence: Imposes upon a construct some of the weakness of the humanoid type.
• Inflict Critical Damage: Deals 4d8 + 1/level damage (maximum +20) to a construct.
• Iron Construct: Construct gains DR 15/adamantine and takes half damage from acid and fire.
• Repair Critical Damage: "Cures" 4d8 +1/level (max +20) points of damage to a construct.
• Weapon Augmentation: Weapon gains special ability with up to +3 bonus market price modifier.
5th-Level Artificer Spells
Conj • Invoke Elemental: You temporarily release a bound elemental and compel it to obey you. This could act as summon elemental effect instead.
• Wall of Stone: Creates a stone wall that can be shaped.
Ench • Dominate Living Construct: As dominate person, but affecting a living construct. Maybe it could instead affect constructs in general.
Evoc • Wall of Force: Wall is immune to damage.
Tran • Construct Essence: As lesser construct essence, but grants more qualities of the construct type.
• Disrupting Weapon: Melee weapon destroys undead.
• Mass Inflict Light Damage: Deals 1d8 damage +1/level to many constructs.
• Mass Repair Light Damage: Repairs 1d8 damage +1/level for many constructs.
• Slaying Arrow: Creates a projectile deadly to a specific creature type. Could instead create a stack of Slaying Arrows similar to Arcane Archer Slayer Arrows.
6th-Level Artificer Spells
Abjur • Globe of Invulnerability: As globe of invulnerability, lesser, plus 4th-level spell effects.
• Greater Spell Snare: Dragonshard absorbs a spell or spelllike ability of up to 6th level.
Conj • Wall of Iron: 30 hp/four levels; can topple onto foes.
Evoc • Blade Barrier: Wall of blades deals 1d6/level damage.
Tran • Disable Construct: Deals 10/level damage to target construct.
• Greater Humanoid Essence: Gives a construct the humanoid type.
• Greater Natural Weapon Augmentation: Natural weapon gains special ability with up to +5 bonus market price modifier.
• Greater Weapon Augmentation: Weapon gains special ability with up to +5 bonus market price modifier.
• Hardening: Permanently make an object's hardness improve.
• Mass Inflict Moderate Damage: Deals 2d8 damage +1/level to many constructs.
• Mass Lesser Construct Essence: Grants many living constructs qualities of the construct type.
• Mass Repair Moderate Damage: Repairs 2d8 damage +1/level for many constructs.
• Total Repair: Repair 10 points/level of damage to a construct.

The only thing left is Enhancements and PrEs.

As far as Enhancements go Skill Enhancements for each of the In Class Skills seem fine. Additional improvements to Wand and Scroll Mastery similar to Wizards and Bards would be a good fit if not necessary. Reducing the cost of Metamagic Feats would be a good thing as well. The enhancements to wands and scrolls should exceed other classes as they specialize in items. Additionally a line to improve the Clockwork Companions would be a good thing as well.

Toughen Companion 1-5: +1 AC, +10hp to the Companion
Strengthen Companion 1-5: +2 Strength, Improved Weapon +1 Enhancement bonus per tier
Reinforce Companion 1-5: +1 DR/Adamantine, +1 Fort Save

Just for a few ideas.

For a PrE I’d say Renegade Master Maker might be an interesting choice… like a Pale Master but in Construct Form instead.


That’s what I have for Artificer so far

Aesop

[Rakian_Knight]

I'd say Artificer as well and the new game mechanic is going to be with a lot of the spell I've been wondering why they aren't in the game right now. You remember how they changed master's touch to effect the weapon instead of having it grant you a ton of feats and lag. I think that is going to be the new mechanic that we see used to let Artificers become true masters of crafting because they can add effects to any weapon at anytime.

For example: Weapon Alteration (lesser, greater): Is going to have a list of weapon properties that they can apply to their or your weapon. Lesser Weapon Alteration (Infusion level 2) would be able to put a +1 effect (like flaming, frost, etc.). Weapon Alteration (Infusion Level 4) would be able to put up to a +3 effect on a weapon and finally Greater (Infusion Level 6) would be able to place up to a +5 effect.

Also they would be able to use metamagics on magic items like wands and similar items.

In short I think if they have the Artificers are the next class they will be UMD Specialist Rogues on Crack.

Posted this in the thread debating on what the next class is and I do believe it is the Artificer.

My thoughts on how they would make an Artificer would be basically a member of the party that more buffed the equipment vs. the party. They already proved that they can put temporary enhancements on weapons when they changed Master's Touch so I think Artificer will put that system to work boosting his own and the parties weapons.

However Renegade Master kind of puts an interesting problem on the PrEs because it would be the only PrE that warforged couldn't enter. I was looking at stuff from the Magic of Eberron book and Alchemist Savant looks like an interesting prestige class that looks made for Artificers but I don't think it could be translated into DDO because of the focus on crafting potions and spellvials.

[Memnir]

I don't think we will ever see Artificer as a playable class in DDO.

[Rakian_Knight]

I don't think we will ever see Artificer as a playable class in DDO.

Why not?

[Aashrym]

I think infusions will just be slow to apply, like bard songs. The power we see from them depends on how the bonuses end up applied.

Buffing in itself isn't exactly the strongest basis for a class.

Bonuses to magic items, such as metamagic feats on wands and scrolls is a place I can see a strong ability to go with UMD. We can see the benefits of stacks of scrolls now; if we can get the ability to apply meta's to wands and scrolls with artificers we have a lot of potential. Possibly expensive but a lot of potential. Instead of an XP pool for crafting and extra charges I would be inclined to use infusion points or another reserve bar just for using the meta's on items intead of extra charges.

Another trap skill class.

Pets maybe. A variety of construct options based on level wouldn't be too bad. We have pets already and the biggest drawback to them is lack of control. A command bar similar to hirelings would go a long way for summon spells and pets. The ability to heal them is handy, but really need them to be more effective than what we have now if it's a main class feature.

The end result looks like it could be a lot of versatility just with the weapons buffs and UMD abilities if it's anything like I envision it. Adding blade barrier on top gives an AoE damage as an added bonus. Definitely another support specialist.

[Grenada]

So new and different that it doesn't even deserve its playstyle being mentioned? :P

I think everyone is looking forward to seeing what the devs will do with the concept. No one knows what direction, in the end, the devs will take, and this is something so different that there is a hopeful suspense that this will be coming out this year (though i have my doubts)

[ProdigalGuru]

I don't think we will ever see Artificer as a playable class in DDO.

I concur.

People just want the new class to buff their weapons EVEN MORE.

[BoolZ]

I hope the new class isn't Artificier for a couple of reasons.

Wasn't there already problems with players and to much scroll usage? I remember reading about a Batman build that helped lead to firewall not being sold at scroll vendors. Now it'd be meta'd DBF.

It already takes to long for everyone to pass every buff they got before part 4 of Shroud. Now I have to wait while someone buffs my weapons too? My LitII Khopesh doesn't need to breath underwater, and is more than enough for Harry on normal.

There's already to many classes that think once they're done doing the one thing they do better than anyone else they're allowed to pike until they're needed to do that one thing again. Seriously portals don't have an AC start swinging.

Lastly, I want the new class to be Psionic Warrior.

[Zachski]

My LitII Khopesh doesn't need to breath underwater

I laughed hard. Sigging.

[budalic]

/Lots of good stuff/

I have only few things to add:

Spells: I think artificer shouldn't be able to cast spells from, let's call it, infusion pool. IMO, they should only be able to enchant items and make scrolls better with it, and be able to only cast spells from wands/scrolls. That's the overall feel of the class, IMO.

Crafting: Conversely, I think artificer should be only class to be able to craft scrolls/wands via u9 crafting system - and they should be able to craft best scrolls, up to lvl 9, from both arcane and divine spell list (also in accordance with pencil and paper game). Perhaps they should get some compensation for it - like, say, being able to deconstruct trash wands for essences - since they'll spend essences on their base class feature, scroll crafting.

Metamagic: IMO, they should be able to apply Meatamagic to wands when they get MM spell trigger; and to scrolls with MM spell completion - works closer to pnp version. Make costs the same as normal metamagic, and give artificers infusion point progression similar to bard - it should be enough, IMO.

Companion: Meh, i don't think it will work - wizards/sorcs don't get familiar, ranger gets no companion. IDK - perhaps as a minor class feature.

UMD bonus: Perhaps a bit OP, with changes I'm suggesting. Than, again, UMD check to use 9th lvl spell scroll is 51, right?

Summary: I think artificers could work as best support casting class in game - that what spellsinger bards are supposed to be. Having access to both divine and arcane spell list, via scrolls, would work wonders for classes versality. But, casting from scrolls = concentration checks - they probably couldn't afford aggro from epic mobs, unlike other casters, who usually have most, if not all, of epic aggro. Solid healers, buffers, damage dealers - as long as they don't take too much aggro. I'd like to see class like that.

[Zachski]

Wouldn't they be able to apply Quicken to their wands and scrolls?

[budalic]

Wouldn't they be able to apply Quicken to their wands and scrolls?

Hmm, they could do it in pencil and paper verision, but then again, sorcerers couldn't quicken there, and they can in DDO. Quicken worked very differently there - I don't see much reason to allow them to use scroll without concentration check... But, it wouldn't break the game even if they could - I think DC casting should be undoable by artificers, so Wizards are safe. Sorcs should be able to attain much better spell damage, be able to cast more spells, and have faster casting. FvS has wings and AoV. Cleric has radiant servant, and both can do melee better...

That actually makes me wonder about PRE's for Artificer - perhaps, as rather unique class, having very tight scope and without too much PRE's in pencil and paper version artificer shouldn't have PREs?

Or, perhaps, Runecaster (for magical trap spells), Something mechanical based (Summons, better WF reconstruction),
and perhaps Mechanic shared with rogue? All flavorful, unique and not too powerfull options.

EDIT: Acually, cleric might be worse than artificer; but cleric is quite underpowered right now compared to other 3 lvl 9 casting classes anyway. (Still better than everything else, though.)

[FrozenNova]

It's already been mentioned that the new class will be 'closer to monk than fvs'. Consider what they did to monk - the DDO monk is entirely unlike its pnp cousin, while fvs was more or less a direct implementation. Whatever the new class may be, it's unlikely that we can reach any decent estimates as to how it plays based on material we already have.

[richieelias27]

Why isnt Artificer a candidate for a *playable* class in DDO?

Well, quite honestly all of its abilities apply very very ho-hum boosts to incredibly underwhelming game elements (wands? potions? scrolls? traps? summons? minor buffs? *yawn*) Sounds like a very weak bard to me.

It's already been mentioned that the new class will be 'closer to monk than fvs'. Consider what they did to monk - the DDO monk is entirely unlike its pnp cousin, while fvs was more or less a direct implementation. Whatever the new class may be, it's unlikely that we can reach any decent estimates as to how it plays based on material we already have.

This actually leads me to believe that the next class will be the psychic warrior. Perhaps theyre making some sort of active combat mechanism to regulate how often powers can be used/how powerful they are? Sounds likely to me. I mean if you think about it, a regenerating power point pool sounds a lot like another class in DDO...

[Jaid314]

Why isnt Artificer a candidate for a *playable* class in DDO?

Well, quite honestly all of its abilities apply very very ho-hum boosts to incredibly underwhelming game elements (wands? potions? scrolls? traps? summons? minor buffs? *yawn*) Sounds like a very weak bard to me.

obviously you've never been hit by a twinned, empowered, maximised, energy-admixtured, split-ray, quickened niac's cold ray cast from a wand/staff/scroll before, if you think this...