R.O.G.U.E. Proving Grounds, part trois

[MaximusParthas]

very nice work! only reason i haven't attempted it yet is because i'm not exactly sure how to tackle the giant at the start

and yes. Orien represent!

The giants a piece of cake and quite stupid. just beat him down and heal scroll yourself. and if ur a fleshie u'll need some sort of deathblock. paralyzers work real well.

[parowan]

The giants a piece of cake and quite stupid. just beat him down and heal scroll yourself. and if ur a fleshie u'll need some sort of deathblock. paralyzers work real well.

And this is actually one of those situations (one-on-one) where bluff - and for that matter improved feint - prove more than worthwhile. Fight goes quicker whenever you can get SA dmg. And quite often you can avoid his spells by turning him around as he casts.

[MaximusParthas]

on my 3rd rogue life right now. each time the same build. 18 rogue assassin III with a fighter splash 2 for the feats and martial weapon prof. then it hit me. I can't get the Ultimate Lord Of Shadows title on Orien because of my splash.
now that.... is a sad thing.

[MalarKan]

on my 3rd rogue life right now. each time the same build. 18 rogue assassin III with a fighter splash 2 for the feats and martial weapon prof. then it hit me. I can't get the Ultimate Lord Of Shadows title on Orien because of my splash.
now that.... is a sad thing.

sad panda ...



but hey, wouldve been hard to perform some of yer greatest deeds without that splash i guess

[AMDarkwolf]

Its too bad i don't qualify for these... I mean I tank sully all the time in elite vod/hard-elite tod, but I *Sigh* Just don't have 90 ac.


Can tank VERY easily with 40 or less ac :P Idk why the 90 ac makes it 'more' of a feat.

And before u11 ive soloed fate. IDK if its even possible now.

Also, ETK, again, easily soloable. Most of the 'thuggery' challenges are 'bleh' compared to the ones above. THOSE are the real challenges, the thuggery ones are not. (they are sill accomplishments, but when u compare them to some of the ones in the other categories, they look like a joke)

[MaximusParthas]

sad panda ...



but hey, wouldve been hard to perform some of yer greatest deeds without that splash i guess

yea. likely i still would have been able to do them just as any other rogue has. 2 lvls of fighter don't give you super rogue powers. but I had 2 rogue 18/ ftr2 lives before I knew this existed or I might have done it differently. 1 thing for sure. not gonna make 3 more capped rogue lives just for that title.

[MaximusParthas]

Its too bad i don't qualify for these... I mean I tank sully all the time in elite vod/hard-elite tod, but I *Sigh* Just don't have 90 ac.


Can tank VERY easily with 40 or less ac :P Idk why the 90 ac makes it 'more' of a feat.

And before u11 ive soloed fate. IDK if its even possible now.

Also, ETK, again, easily soloable. Most of the 'thuggery' challenges are 'bleh' compared to the ones above. THOSE are the real challenges, the thuggery ones are not. (they are sill accomplishments, but when u compare them to some of the ones in the other categories, they look like a joke)

Not sure how you do your tanking. personally I intimitank which takes skill and not just a bunch of hate gear. the same skill investments as any of the other tasks outside of thuggery.

[AMDarkwolf]

Not sure how you do your tanking. personally I intimitank which takes skill and not just a bunch of hate gear. the same skill investments as any of the other tasks outside of thuggery.

Yes but consider this: Tanking horoth. You use intimidate. I use hate. We both tanked horoth successfully, how is YOUR way better because u have higher intim(Which u don't, my rog's got highest possible intim for a rog :P)

I choose to use 'hate' to intim because its more reliable than intim(IDK what the issue was before, but many times I've used intim it acted more like diplo and the boss turns away from me) With hate, I don't have that issue. I tank, with FULL sneaks(Try that, THATS more of an accomplishment than 'I R GOTS HI INTIM, I R GOTS 2 HJERLZ HEEELIN MEH!') - Honestly how much skill could it possibly take to mash that intim key on cooldowns? Does it take more skill than setting up your strikes between your own heals/potions/etc?

My point is there's many ways to do stuff, and the 'thuggery' accomplishments/challenges pale compared to the others. Its quite a feat to get though claw with 'ONE' kill (I've done it, with no ranks in hide/move silent, but it IS a challenge regardless of those scores) or getting the key in evon2(prisoner) without killing the giant or his pets. (Never done that, not even close)


Make some thuggery challenges like : Solo bastion elite with no hire, solo new invasion hard/elite with no hire, etc. REAL challenges. Stuff that stands up next to the others and feels as much of a feat as some of those.(And i mean solo as a melee not a 'splashed fvs/caster rog' :P)

[katz]

ahem. boys... neutral corners please....

thank you


this thread is supposed to be about celebrating the limits a rogue can push themselves to. we are not useless squishy trappers. we can do *all this* and more it's not the place for a petty "my way is better than your way" argument, please. if this thread gets locked i am going to be seriously ****ed at someone.

atma, you want bigger challenges in the thuggery section? the list isn't set in stone. give me some! i'm impressed by the thuggery section, but if you aren't... go do something bigger and come back here and show off what you did. think of a cool name for the challenge too if you want.

lets have some FUN with it!

[AMDarkwolf]

ahem. boys... neutral corners please....

thank you


this thread is supposed to be about celebrating the limits a rogue can push themselves to. we are not useless squishy trappers. we can do *all this* and more it's not the place for a petty "my way is better than your way" argument, please. if this thread gets locked i am going to be seriously ****ed at someone.

atma, you want bigger challenges in the thuggery section? the list isn't set in stone. give me some! i'm impressed by the thuggery section, but if you aren't... go do something bigger and come back here and show off what you did. think of a cool name for the challenge too if you want.

lets have some FUN with it!

Well all pre u11, but solo stealer of souls, elite, solo sos hard with sorjek, solo vod normal, solo fate(All pretty easy pre u11, idk now) are some examples. They are quite a feat for a rog(Not pure but mainly, 13/7 stick build) and solo etk, elite was 'easy' when u know where to stand during end fight(Rest of quest isn't even any sort of challenge compared to end)

Solo bastion elite is something i want to do someday, and ive TRIED (And failed horribly due to the air elemental they added WITH the boss, gust of wind sucks. at the end) solo elite new invasion.. another thing I want to do. The others ive solo'ed on elite 'thug style'(IE: Fighting everything, no real sneaking) and it wasn't 'THAT' hard (Solo sos hard with sorjek i think was my most tough challenge)

Basically I think 'what can a melee fvs do' (IE look though the loads and loads of 'ive solo'ed this' threads by fvs's) and I 'try' that. Some, just can't be done presently, but I'd like to see people try.


Edit: To fix a lot of horrible spelling mistakes.

[parowan]

I choose to use 'hate' to intim because its more reliable than intim(IDK what the issue was before, but many times I've used intim it acted more like diplo and the boss turns away from me) With hate, I don't have that issue. I tank, with FULL sneaks

Do you mean you tank while maintaining sneak attack dmg? How?

[MaximusParthas]

Yes but consider this: Tanking horoth. You use intimidate. I use hate. We both tanked horoth successfully, how is YOUR way better because u have higher intim(Which u don't, my rog's got highest possible intim for a rog :P)

I choose to use 'hate' to intim because its more reliable than intim(IDK what the issue was before, but many times I've used intim it acted more like diplo and the boss turns away from me) With hate, I don't have that issue. I tank, with FULL sneaks(Try that, THATS more of an accomplishment than 'I R GOTS HI INTIM, I R GOTS 2 HJERLZ HEEELIN MEH!') - Honestly how much skill could it possibly take to mash that intim key on cooldowns? Does it take more skill than setting up your strikes between your own heals/potions/etc?

My point is there's many ways to do stuff, and the 'thuggery' accomplishments/challenges pale compared to the others. Its quite a feat to get though claw with 'ONE' kill (I've done it, with no ranks in hide/move silent, but it IS a challenge regardless of those scores) or getting the key in evon2(prisoner) without killing the giant or his pets. (Never done that, not even close)


Make some thuggery challenges like : Solo bastion elite with no hire, solo new invasion hard/elite with no hire, etc. REAL challenges. Stuff that stands up next to the others and feels as much of a feat as some of those.(And i mean solo as a melee not a 'splashed fvs/caster rog' :P)

I didn't say my way was better. I said it's a skill investment. like any other. Btw. Since you have it, What is the max intim for a rogue?
Interesting challenges you offer there. Personally i think those are beyond the reach of any rogue post u11. I also think its not necessary to diminish anyones accomplishments. Reach higher yes, but there's already a lot of efforts here worthy of praise.

[AMDarkwolf]

I didn't say my way was better. I said it's a skill investment. like any other. Btw. Since you have it, What is the max intim for a rogue?
Interesting challenges you offer there. Personally i think those are beyond the reach of any rogue post u11. I also think its not necessary to diminish anyones accomplishments. Reach higher yes, but there's already a lot of efforts here worthy of praise.

23 ranks, 4 human enchantments, 4 gh, 15 item, 5gloves, 4 boost, 4 cha(+8 cha item) and i know im forgetting some. This is just the basic 'off the top of my head' but since 'you invested into the skill' your 'skill' as a player should tell yourself that, why ask me?

And Im not diminishing anyones accomplishments, i'm offering new challanges to try. Something that can compare to the 'other' schools.

I mean seriously.... getting the 'kill' hit on sully/horoth/harry is a feat?

I've given some things I've done pre u11, which I have seen few, if any, melee's do. I was 13/7, idk if I'd expect a pure to manage it, due to the fact that a monk splash adds a lot to what a rog already brings to the table(solo wise) at the cost of a lot of rog goodliness.

But to have 'xx skill' as an accomplishment these days, don't really 'add' to the challenge. I mean Sure, lets say 'Tank Sully AND have a haggle of 80' THATS a challenge, since its basically the same thing as 'have xx intim' Its just pumping points into a skill as you level.

Reduce it down to 'tank sully' and poof u got a good challenge, why does the skill/tactic/build/etc u use matter? The point is the feat was accomplished.

And again, I really don't want to ruffle your feathers anymore, but it has to be asked, again, What 'skill' does it take to mash that intim button every 15 seconds? I KNOW u want to neg me again for asking, but i just have to know, why is 'you having invested into the skill' and 'using intimidate takes SOOOOOOOOOO MUUUUUCH more skill than having just a bunch of hate gear' mean anything?

I mean I guess I could just find a old ss of my skills, post that and get some spiffy little honor badge cuz I r haz hi skillz numberz?'

[katz]

while intimidate is a class skill for rogues, it's a skill not often thought of or used by them. it goes against the whole 'sneak attack damage' thing. so many rogues DON'T train it. or have gear to enhance it. having such a high number shows a significant investment of more than just skill points to reach that benchmark. for anyone.

and yet, i have full ranks and a +15 item handy, because sometimes you just really need it. and you never know when. like that shroud where someone doesn't quite understand "park the freaking ele!" i saved that situation with intimidate. i, as a first lifer, can hit 54 intimi. and that's as a halfling, which means my actual number is higher. i don't have uber equipment to get there. but i'm there because i was trying to work my way toward the old benchmark from this thread

SO ANYWAY... as i've said now SEVERAL times... the game has changed. the mechanics have changed... give me new tasks! new benchmarks! PLEASE. help me out here!

[MaximusParthas]

23 ranks, 4 human enchantments, 4 gh, 15 item, 5gloves, 4 boost, 4 cha(+8 cha item) and i know im forgetting some. This is just the basic 'off the top of my head' but since 'you invested into the skill' your 'skill' as a player should tell yourself that, why ask me?

And Im not diminishing anyones accomplishments, i'm offering new challanges to try. Something that can compare to the 'other' schools.

I mean seriously.... getting the 'kill' hit on sully/horoth/harry is a feat?

I've given some things I've done pre u11, which I have seen few, if any, melee's do. I was 13/7, idk if I'd expect a pure to manage it, due to the fact that a monk splash adds a lot to what a rog already brings to the table(solo wise) at the cost of a lot of rog goodliness.

But to have 'xx skill' as an accomplishment these days, don't really 'add' to the challenge. I mean Sure, lets say 'Tank Sully AND have a haggle of 80' THATS a challenge, since its basically the same thing as 'have xx intim' Its just pumping points into a skill as you level.

Reduce it down to 'tank sully' and poof u got a good challenge, why does the skill/tactic/build/etc u use matter? The point is the feat was accomplished.

And again, I really don't want to ruffle your feathers anymore, but it has to be asked, again, What 'skill' does it take to mash that intim button every 15 seconds? I KNOW u want to neg me again for asking, but i just have to know, why is 'you having invested into the skill' and 'using intimidate takes SOOOOOOOOOO MUUUUUCH more skill than having just a bunch of hate gear' mean anything?

I mean I guess I could just find a old ss of my skills, post that and get some spiffy little honor badge cuz I r haz hi skillz numberz?'

1- blame someone else. my rep is too low to neg anyone.

2- intimtanking for a rogue is a whole lot more than just pressing a button every 15 seconds.
hit intim, hit various boosts, attack, cure curse if needed, use u-dodge, bluff, SA, adjust position, check health, heal scroll if necessary, re equip, use rage, haste, etc. monitor all your cooldowns, attack, boost again, blah blah blah. there is no time to pause and everything must be done as needed or you lose agro to the barb who just happens to have 75% hate gear on that he never removes. hate tanking is -equip hate gear, hope no one else has more than you equipped, click auto attack.... pretty much end of story. as an aside, SKILL is as in SKILL POINTS. like having enough open lock skill points to get the door in evon1 or the locked giant chest in evon2. having high skills is a calculated investment in your limited amount of APs/SPs. knowing best how/when/where to use those skills is a testament to your play style and worth praising in a post such as this provides.

3- other than various pots and post u11 epic gear which adds +20, the 3 marks of the sentinel adds more intim. atm I'm a max 70 for second life. I've heard of others getting over 80 w 3 rogue past lives. the more you have the better chance of not losing agro.

4- I agree. getting a kill shot is luck of the draw. cute but not a real accomplishment. it's why i never posted an ss of the many times i've done that.

5- not sure why your here being so confrontational. but i'm not your enemy. just another rogue sharing my achievements and appreciating the achievements from others of the same class while building ideas on how we can do more/better. the latter being some common ground you and i share based on your replies.

[katz]

The giants a piece of cake and quite stupid. just beat him down and heal scroll yourself. and if ur a fleshie u'll need some sort of deathblock. paralyzers work real well.

"a piece of cake"... and now all of a sudden i feel quite weak. either that, or i MUST be doing something wrong i decided to give this a shot over the past couple days.

due to some "what was i thinking? oh wait, i wasn't!" moments while leveling up, i never got myself the deathward clickie visor thingie. strike one. i tried it twice that way anyway. scrolled restoration when he hit me with a neg level. i managed to get him down by not quite a 1/10th both times (not down to a 1/10... i only took away 1/10 of his life)

i tried one more time... cheated. called up Heystack and put him on passive. i was going to dismiss him after the fight (my husband said it would be funny if Heystack got the killshot. i told him to shush. he LOLed and went back to favor grinding his bank toon) had him deathward me, then i told him when i wanted him to heal me, and that's all he did. that time, i got Sobrien down by about 1/3 of his life before Heystack ran out of mana. true i could have swapped to scroll-healing myself at that point, but i just didn't see it happening.

lvl 50 ship buffs, GH, blur, stoneskin, haste, deathward (for the last attempt), scrolling divine power whenever it wore off, and had madstone boots on for last attempt (because i didn't have to scroll myself). i used a paralyzer (should i have a pair of them?) i bluffed every time it refreshed.

what else can i do to make this actually doable? or am i just wussier than i thought and this particular challenge is beyond me currently?

[MaximusParthas]

"a piece of cake"... and now all of a sudden i feel quite weak. either that, or i MUST be doing something wrong i decided to give this a shot over the past couple days.

due to some "what was i thinking? oh wait, i wasn't!" moments while leveling up, i never got myself the deathward clickie visor thingie. strike one. i tried it twice that way anyway. scrolled restoration when he hit me with a neg level. i managed to get him down by not quite a 1/10th both times (not down to a 1/10... i only took away 1/10 of his life)

i tried one more time... cheated. called up Heystack and put him on passive. i was going to dismiss him after the fight (my husband said it would be funny if Heystack got the killshot. i told him to shush. he LOLed and went back to favor grinding his bank toon) had him deathward me, then i told him when i wanted him to heal me, and that's all he did. that time, i got Sobrien down by about 1/3 of his life before Heystack ran out of mana. true i could have swapped to scroll-healing myself at that point, but i just didn't see it happening.

lvl 50 ship buffs, GH, blur, stoneskin, haste, deathward (for the last attempt), scrolling divine power whenever it wore off, and had madstone boots on for last attempt (because i didn't have to scroll myself). i used a paralyzer (should i have a pair of them?) i bluffed every time it refreshed.

what else can i do to make this actually doable? or am i just wussier than i thought and this particular challenge is beyond me currently?

Sounds like your doing everything right. The deathward clickie would be a big asset for a fleshie. maybe you can buy a scroll or 2 from the ah?
reading your story makes me wonder if its your damage output thats making it take so long.
I'm a str build with 46 str fully buffed. most times around 38 steady. For that fight I use the epic midnight greetings. I also use the epic charged gauntlets for extra dmg and at least 4 other offensive/defensive procs. It takes me about 10 minutes to take him down. Although I must admit my first time in I wasn't so geared and didn't have ANY death ward clikies. Just my silver flame talisman. That first fight took me near 40 minutes with just a couple of L2 swords. I went through about 100 heal scrolls and 40ish restoration scrolls.

[parowan]

what else can i do to make this actually doable? or am i just wussier than i thought and this particular challenge is beyond me currently?

Fwelcyr isn't a pure str-build (usually run at a steady 34 str), so my straight dps doesn't match Krimson's. But the fight usually takes me 5-7 min, and about 10 reconstruct scrolls. Helps that I'm WF and don't have to worry about DW.

When you need to heal, go run to the other end of the corridor and stand behind the curve in the wall. While you heal up he'll throw stuff at the wall for a while before following you. Gives you time to heal and re-buff. Only defensive buffs I use are displacement and shield.

Things that can cut down on the time of the fight: epic midnight greetings, like Maximus says, is great because of the improved paralyze (normal may not ever affect him) and because of the deception, which gives free sneak attacks. I actually use the tier three smallblade from cove in my right hand - love the doublestrike.

Bluff greatly increases dps. Since I have improved feint I keep him spinning as often as possible. This may be the main difference maker for me. Attack speed boost, feint, attack speed boost, feint, attack speed boost, feint, go heal, rinse and repeat.

The Assassin set from TOD doesn't always get much love. The level drain proc rate is pretty low. But in a long fight like this it will proc often enough to be worthwhile.

Similarly, at the start of the fight I softened him with an enervation scroll and a waves of fatigue scroll.

[katz]

well.... my rogue is linked in my sig. i have don't have as much str as you, nor do i have any epic gear aside from cove stuff. i suppose i'll load up on scrolls and try again :-/

the paralyze was barely going off at all, maybe i'll just use my greensteel rapier (half finished radII >.< ) and the epic smallblade on him instead. more damage is more damage. and more damage is good.

*sigh*

edit:

Similarly, at the start of the fight I softened him with an enervation scroll and a waves of fatigue scroll.

ooh, good idea. maybe i'll pick up a few of those also

[delsoboss]

Blind him.
I just killed him alone in something like 5-6 mins and my rogue is unoptimized for DPS (dex-based human).
Attempt number one i buff (stoneskin from gs clickie, gh from planar gird, acid and fire resist from level 11 wand, shield from level 5 wand), run against him and while he finish his speech i scroll cast sleet storm and ... i can't get near him because i am influenced by the sleetstorm sliding effect so he sits on his butt, i try in vain to get to him, get out.
Second attempt (5 mins later), same buffs, at the end of his speech i activate a divine power clickie and bluff him, then i tear on him with my T3 epic cutthroat smallblade and RadII rapier, he gets blinded and from then on is just a matter of time.
I used 7 heal scrolls and followed him around jumping back and forth to evade his attacks, used all the clicks of my divine power bracers and 5 out of 6 haste boost IV/human vers. damage III that i activated together.
Odd thing, he never ever level drained me, i bought a stack of restoration scrolls but never had to use them. He used burning blood, acid ball, delayed blast fireball (not sure), wall of fire and negative energy burst.
Sadly i had no time left so exited without completing the quest but i'm curious if i was lucky on the level drains or he's buggy or he can't level drain while blind or something else, since i don't have items that block level drain and was out of luck on the ah for a deathward scroll.

Start: http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/823/startl.jpg/
During the fight: http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/440/fighting.jpg/
End: http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/708/endqf.jpg/