VoN6=squelched?

[Verdex]

So lately there has been some bad runs with eVoN6 in my life.

First bad run:
On VoN5 people decided to start when there was like 4 in the party, i'm ok with that but no one was in and wasnt sure where the progress was.

When we reach the part where we have to deal the coffer everyone stopped moving.
No one would tell me who had voice, no one could tell me what was done, what wasnt done, who had the coffer etc.
Suddenly the 6 people who had been piking are getting mad that I cant lead when no one will answer my questions.
Then ask what were are supposed to be doing right now. When i just say exactly what the objective list says they quit since "the leader doesnt know what todo"
Being the smart *** i am respond apparently you dont know what todo or you would just do it.

Second bad run:
We make it to VoN6 np, I dont have a mic but would like someone who does be able to call out when stuff is preped and to kill. So i ASK for THAT, then we start planning the attack, i want to know what everyone feels comfortable doing (we end up agreeing on 'around the world') As i assign basses everyone keeps saying so-and-so here and so-and-so here. So i type /sit and give leadership to someone else. I'm not gonna argue with people who just want this lvl 20 fighter on this base rather than this lvl20 fighter on this base.

Party wipes and i get squelched for putting up LFM i cant lead.


Both times I must say i knew what needed to be done it was just too many "i know what to do" people and not enough actually getting it done people. Why does this only happen on eVoN? Why does it seem to happen more often than not?

Next time i'm just piking VoN5 and using the time for writing directions out and just putting them out and starting VoN6 without another word no argueing, no worrying about if that Sorcerer is Ice Spec and would be more effective on Fire base rather than ice. Just here's your job do it dont like it you can be my 3rd eVoN squelch, wont hurt my feelings that you want to blame your own failures and lack of ablity to listen cause you "know everything" even though you need more healz and rez then a 230hp wizard.

[Thaxlsillyia]

When we reach the part where we have to deal the coffer everyone stopped moving.
No one would tell me who had voice, no one could tell me what was done, what wasnt done, who had the coffer etc.
Suddenly the 6 people who had been piking are getting mad that I cant lead when no one will answer my questions.
Then ask what were are supposed to be doing right now. When i just say exactly what the objective list says they quit since "the leader doesnt know what todo"

they might have had you on the squelch list so can't hear you. been there done that...

[Nospheratus]

Don't ask who wants to go where. Say where they should go and what they should do!

Most people want a leader with strong decisions, without being arrogant ofc. Most people will also say they would prefer not doing task A or B if they feel there's a good change they will fail.

[Gkar]

The first one might or might not be your fault. In the second example you appear to have demonstrated a lack of leadership skills.

[Verdex]

they might have had you on the squelch list so can't hear you. been there done that...

Nope they had no problem responding to talk ****, just not to give the information for me to tell who todo what

Don't ask who wants to go where. Say where they should go and what they should do!

Most people want a leader with strong decisions, without being arrogant ofc. Most people will also say they would prefer not doing task A or B if they feel there's a good change they will fail.

Agreed, but there is a differeance IMO of "Hey are you ice spec?", "everyone ok with Around the world, everyone knows it right?" and the "would you like to go to fire base, ok and you jim-bob would you like to go with them?" etc etc.

One of the problems was they kept trying put 3 Dps on first base, we didnt need it, everyone preps that base we just need enough to finish the djinn and the pillar. Doesnt really take a FVS, 2 FIGHTERS and a wizard....geez.

I kept trying move one of them to air, and the "leader" kept saying they didnt need it, but obcourse they called for dps help just few seconds in

[Paleus]

Von 5 and 6 more often become unbearable because of collective action problems rather than lack of skill or knowledge. As the leader it will be your responsibility to attempt to minimize the room for collective action problems to crop up. You will probably be best served by running the voice and ring yourself. If you dont want to, clearly assign the task in the beginning, dont wait until when you get to the ring. If tasks need to be done, assign people to them by name, in text is often done for bases.

Also importantly, having a mic as a leader goes a long way. People dont always stare at your text 24/7 like you might believe. Being able to grab their attention by mic so they dont miss important information because it scrolled by before they saw it can help. If a person or two misses at that point the burden of blame will tend to fall on them rather than you.

In the end, knowing the quest and knowing hwo to lead people through the quest are two different things.

[Verdex]

The first one might or might not be your fault. In the second example you appear to have demonstrated a lack of leadership skills.

Maybe more a lack of insertiveness, I shoulda just told the "leaders" to f off and i was in charge then sent a tell to each person of their job. They probably woulda picked me over them any way, I was just tired of it to quick to want to deal with it

Von 5 and 6 more often become unbearable because of collective action problems rather than lack of skill or knowledge. As the leader it will be your responsibility to attempt to minimize the room for collective action problems to crop up. You will probably be best served by running the voice and ring yourself. If you dont want to, clearly assign the task in the beginning, dont wait until when you get to the ring. If tasks need to be done, assign people to them by name, in text is often done for bases.

Also importantly, having a mic as a leader goes a long way. People dont always stare at your text 24/7 like you might believe. Being able to grab their attention by mic so they dont miss important information because it scrolled by before they saw it can help. If a person or two misses at that point the burden of blame will tend to fall on them rather than you.

In the end, knowing the quest and knowing hwo to lead people through the quest are two different things.

Agreed which is why i asked for someone to call the kill on the mic, but was planning the bases when everyone was at the end of VoN5 reading the text, soon as I would type something i.e. ICE: Verdex, John Doe, Bob
two other people would reassign them for no real reason. It was a waste of time to try to lead these people. Then when it's "settled" everyone is confused due to everyone giving different orders and it started all over. i kept asking them stop but no one would it was just lame, i felt like I should have just squelched the guy and dropped the party while it was happening, I have the little STAR FOR A REASON...grr

[ceiswyn]

Suddenly the 6 people who had been piking are getting mad that I cant lead when no one will answer my questions.
Then ask what were are supposed to be doing right now. When i just say exactly what the objective list says they quit since "the leader doesnt know what todo"
Being the smart *** i am respond apparently you dont know what todo or you would just do it.

And they just stare at your response in bemusement going 'we already said that'.

You would be surprised how many people don't actually know what to do in VoN5. How would they, when every run involves the six people who know the quest inside-out running off and doing everything? (This is the situation I'm in; I've run eVelah ten times, but I've no idea how VoN5 goes and I haven't managed to get together a group that's willing to go slow and show me)

So it's entirely likely that at least some of the six pikers were piking because, well, they actually didn't know what to do. When they realised things were falling apart a bit they asked you what they could do to help; and you decided to be a tosser and just point at the list rather than tell them anything useful. Can you see why they dropped now?

To be honest, it sounds to me like while you may be good at administering a quest - working out who should go where and so on - you're just not that good with the personal and social factors that are required to actually lead it.

[Verdex]

And they just stare at your response in bemusement going 'we already said that'.

You would be surprised how many people don't actually know what to do in VoN5. How would they, when every run involves the six people who know the quest inside-out running off and doing everything? (This is the situation I'm in; I've run eVelah ten times, but I've no idea how VoN5 goes and I haven't managed to get together a group that's willing to go slow and show me)

So it's entirely likely that at least some of the six pikers were piking because, well, they actually didn't know what to do. When they realised things were falling apart a bit they asked you what they could do to help; and you decided to be a tosser and just point at the list rather than tell them anything useful. Can you see why they dropped now?

To be honest, it sounds to me like while you may be good at administering a quest - working out who should go where and so on - you're just not that good with the personal and social factors that are required to actually lead it.

I understand that and even understood why more people than normal were just standing there (other people starting and the whole needing to even know where we are in progress to know what to do)

It wasnt a what can i do to help? It was what do we need to do, and everyone started running around checking everyone else (is left side done?, is right side done? etc) And me saying hey it's at the coffer part who has voice and who has coffer? (no answer)
Hey does anyone know who has voice and who has coffer? (no answer)

ok...this is what we need to do at this point

oh i'm leaving because he doesnt know what to do.


For some reason my whole life i get ignored about stuff like that so it's a problem with my socail skills yes, i have this "ears strain to hear a whispered word, that turn deff to a shout" out look. Yet even when i shout people ignore me for some reason.... That was just the first time online. When everyone left i went and found the voice and finished it.

I had no idea what todo in VoN5 either untill i wanted start doing epics, I ran it once back around lvl 13 before, so i went online and learned the steps, i didnt want all the "serious" players giving me ****....and yet it still happens

[ArloOne]

Regarding That raid in particular. I personally feel everyone should have a mic/headset or at a minimum ears to hear clear instruction.
I would recommend not leading that raid with out a head set. Sure it is fairly simple once you get a feel for it, but IMO requires strict leadership and clear and concise voice commands or you are asking for a tough run of it.

If you have a history of creating the party and then consistently come up short in the leadership department, it really isn;t to big a deal. Just be sure to post in your LFM " NEED LEADER".

Than when someone joins who is up for it...sit back, hack and slash, and have fun.

[Verdex]

Regarding That raid in particular. I personally feel everyone should have a mic/headset or at a minimum ears to hear clear instruction.
I would recommend not leading that raid with out a head set. Sure it is fairly simple once you get a feel for it, but IMO requires strict leadership and clear and concise voice commands or you are asking for a tough run of it.

If you have a history of creating the party and then consistently come up short in the leadership department, it really isn;t to big a deal. Just be sure to post in your LFM " NEED LEADER".

Than when someone joins who is up for it...sit back, hack and slash, and have fun.

Oh I like that, havent even thought of asking for a leader with a mic!
I have ears, and can lead in anything that doesnt require something like killing monsters all at the same time through txt no problem, I just always ask for someone with a mic though on those, it's only way to get it done, other wise someone misses the message and you start ALL over. VoN seems to be the only place this happens to me at too. I dont have a "history" of it, it's not common and most the time when i stop and ask everyone if they know their role, what's going on i get good answers. It's like VoN makes people stupid and unable to comunicate or something

[KingofDiamondz]

Ok no offense but if that 2nd run happened to be the 1 I was in last night with you, you got a lot of things said that really didnt happen.

[BDS]

Just here's your job do it dont like it you can be my 3rd eVoN squelch, wont hurt my feelings that you want to blame your own failures and lack of ablity to listen cause you "know everything" even though you need more healz and rez then a 230hp wizard.

No offense but it doesn't sound like you should even be joining epic raids much less leading them. 230 HP you are a threat to be one shotted on the bases at any time.

As far as the raid goes, generally run in guild since there dont seem to be a lot of pug lfms these days with channels etc. I like to assign one person I know who has a mic to each base when doing it though as it makes sure we can coordinate the dropping of djinns/pillars and allow for communication of what is going on at the bases if there are issues.

You can lead very well without voice if you type clear instructions, your group knows what they are doing, and you have others with voice to communicate and support you. Jinx pops to mind at someone who leads raids effectively through text.

[Lissyl]

VoN is a great raid that can be really hard to get to know. I've run it...*thinks*...probably 16 times now on my stack-o-casters and my lil rogue, and only on my last 2 runs did I ~finally~ learn the last segments of it I didn't know. Actually I take that back, I still don't know how to 'drop the ladder' at the flame jet, even though I disarmed the trap. But that aside, I know the quest inside and out finally.

I think, on my next cycle through, I'm going to LFM for inexperienced players, then give each of them an important task. Mwahahahaha! Because new people need to learn these things. Its not just VoN either...things like PoP, Crucible...no one ever ~teaches~ these. They do the hard parts and carry people with them, and then start to wonder why none of the new players know what to do or seem as experienced. To make matters more interesting, I'll have to do it by text. Fortunately, I've some degree of experience leading raids in other games from text.

Keep an eye out for the wonky LFM coming your way soon!

[wigthemaster]

First of all,

If your leading you tell not ask.

~wig

[AtomicMew]

The difference between voice and text is almost purely psychological. Text is actually a clearer method of communicating, since there's no chance of mishearing and you can always scroll back up in case you forget what someone said.

However, the fact is, if you just use text, people will think you're just an anonymous nobody. But if you use voice, then it's personal. People know what you sound like and therefore feel like they know you. They are less prone to ignore you or criticize you because they know that you're a REAL person.

It is hard to lead a pug raid entirely by text, especially if you are not in a well known guild. I understand not liking to use voice, because I'm the same way. My suggestion is to buy a cheap mic, say a few words so that people know that you are real person. Then you can turn it off and type out the rest of the instructions.

I've been in lots of raids that have been run successfully in this way, but very few that have been run successfully with just text.

[ceiswyn]

Its not just VoN either...things like PoP, Crucible...no one ever ~teaches~ these.

Titan. I actually hate and avoid Titan, because I haven't the faintest idea what to do in the pre-raid and don't like thinking that I'm holding people back or doing things wrong or acting like a total n00b...

[Kalari]

Op as someone else have said its a leadership issue. No this is not a knock of you cause I have rarely lead raids myself. Quests no problem for me but Raids, I always get nervous because of several factors that my wishes will not be respected. I know I can get into serious mama mode but raids and epics seem to be a different bag. Even in guild being one of 2 females to an almost all male guild can be intimidating to take the reigns and tell them "Hey I want this and this" especially when some (they know I love them still) think they know better and will try to insist on doing other things.

Its why in my role as an officer I tend to help flag people run other duties but raid running leading epics is something I leave to others. I tend to take failure personally to so a failed run would sour my mood for awhile. I say next time either try to be more assertive which unfortunately may mean being more of an you know what hence the first three letters of the word) Or joining a group and not bothering with delegating duties.

[Rydin_Dirtay]

No offense but it doesn't sound like you should even be joining epic raids much less leading them. 230 HP you are a threat to be one shotted on the bases at any time.

Um. I don't think he has a 230 hp Wizard. You might want to re-read his post.

[nolaureltree000]

You would be surprised how many people don't actually know what to do in VoN5. How would they, when every run involves the six people who know the quest inside-out running off and doing everything? (This is the situation I'm in; I've run eVelah ten times, but I've no idea how VoN5 goes and I haven't managed to get together a group that's willing to go slow and show me)

So it's entirely likely that at least some of the six pikers were piking because, well, they actually didn't know what to do. When they realised things were falling apart a bit they asked you what they could do to help; and you decided to be a tosser and just point at the list rather than tell them anything useful. Can you see why they dropped now?

this is true, for awhile i didnt really know what to do in VoN5 and everyone zerged it so there wasnt any clear instruction on what to do.

that being said, youre never going to learn the raid just by standing in the main room piking next to the shrine, letting everyone else do everything (i dont know how you behave in raids specifically, im just responding in a general sense now). youre in a level 10 quest on level 20s, there isnt much that youre going to screw up. run around and follow people and watch what they are doing. at the very least, just run around and kill trash and learn the general layout of the map. if you dont have self healing, just carry a stack or two of cure/repair serious pots. its all youll need.

you might not know what everything does at first, but atleast you will begin to pick up on where things are and the general order of the raid events. couple that reading up on the ddowiki about the raid/watching youtube videos of the raid and you should be able to more or less teach yourself the raid. not knowing a raid is fine, but if you arent doing anything to help teach yourself or to seek out how to learn a raid then well...youre not doing much to be a very strong team player. it isnt the responsibility of vets to teach you raids, especially if youre arent taking the necessary steps to actively teach yourself.

i wasnt in the raid, so i cant speak to how good/poor of a leader the OP was, but when you ask something like 'who has the voice, please check your inventories' and no one speaks up, its going to be pretty hard to lead that sort of a raid regardless of leadership abilities.