No more rogues on Orien? :/

[donfilibuster]

Oh haven't you heard, pure mech rogues quit because all those barbarians with 1 lv splash of rogue keep winning rolls on raid rogue gear.

[SableShadow]

Srsly? Reap it.

[EustaceTrevelyan]

Well, orien is the newest server, with less of everything to go around. People who make a rogue aren't seen as useful in any undead/fort heavy quest w/o traps. And while they have damage, they're squishier, esp if not well played. People would rather bet on a barb or fighter, since a badly played barb or ftr dies less than a badly played rog. Or of course FvS/Arcane.

So people are going to roll one of those, since they want to be invited to the party.

[EustaceTrevelyan]

Oh there are many rogues roaming arround lemme assure u... but for whatever reason some of them don't invest in disable device/open lock/search early lvls (or at all?) so "they don't end up with 'gimp' build"... god forbid some items to boost their skills.

Had a rotation of 2-3 rogues joining on lfm when we were doing House K quests around lvl 7. None of the was able to do traps in lvl range, one of them was even legend build which makes me sad thinking he didn't learn anything in his past lives...

What kind of a re&arded build requires a rogue to disregard his skills completely.
Eventually a Barbarian with spalsh rogue lvl(s) joined as replacement and he did well

I hope that's just my experience and that there are actually more capable rogues on lower lvls.

I have a rog, and agree 100%. Other than the advice in my sig, I've given up and stopped ranting about rogs that won't put points into/gear for search/disable and just started blacklisting them. Not that i've had occasion to blacklist anyone yet, since i've been running with guildies/soloing on new chars. And it's not like i maintain a Rogtard Watch Thelanis Twitter account, and spam out the Unworthy, lol

Just that if you ever click rog on any of your levels ever, and then wish to say that you don't do traps, as you only took rog for evasion/Teh DPS, that is certainly your right. Just that I and a bunch of other people will not be grouping with you, since you're doing it wrong, and will probably be a PITA in other ways. And as for your DPS, if you don't know what you're doing, you'll get aggro and won't even have that to offer.

The thing about rogs being DPS is that EVERYONE can do DPS. But everyone also has things to contribute other than. Barbs, speed hp, aggro tanking. Fighters, AC or hp, tactics. Both can throw some items/points at intim for extra hate tanking. Arcanes, FvS, Clerics, fairly clear what they all bring to the table in addition. Rangers, well, i'd say that was an advanced class. Played well, built well, etc, it owns. But really easy to gimp. But hey, also manyshot, so great burst if you know what you're doing.

Again, I have a rog, and this is not a rant against them. Just against people that choose playstyles that seem to annoy an awful lot of us. That's ok, if that's your thing, and you don't want to group with that majority. To each his own.

[Keybreaker]

Oh haven't you heard, pure mech rogues quit because all those barbarians with 1 lv splash of rogue keep winning rolls on raid rogue gear.

What kind of ijiot barb would splash rog level??!

[donfilibuster]

What kind of ijiot barb would splash rog level??!

Not making it up lol! This is Orien!

[stoerm]

what Kind Of Ijiot Barb Would Splash Rog Level??!

[karl_k0ch]

Oh haven't you heard, pure mech rogues quit because all those barbarians with 1 lv splash of rogue keep winning rolls on raid rogue gear.

You bring the drama, I bring the popcorn. Deal?

What kind of ijiot barb would splash rog level??!

I think only people from noob guilds do that. I doubt that anyone would be able to cap such a horribly built toon.



And just for the statistics: I pug a lot and I never go anon.

[stoerm]

I think only people from noob guilds do that. I doubt that anyone would be able to cap such a horribly built toon.

Danke schön Karl.

[karl_k0ch]

Danke schön Karl.

It's always a bit hard to work with irony on the internet. I'd just like to point out that Keybreaker is a 18 barbarian/2 rogue split as well.

[stoerm]

It's always a bit hard to work with irony on the internet. I'd just like to point out that Keybreaker is a 18 barbarian/2 rogue split as well.

lol, I figured you being ironic there (hence ) but fell hook, line and sinker for Keybreaker's post. I bow before you both.

[Iphigen]

@Roderickus
Low level traps above level are certainly not the priority of my rogue builds. Zapod will be able to handle epics with level 20 gear and there is no reason at all to do quests above level in first place. If the LFM saids "normal" but some genius decides to go in on "elite"... don't blame the rogue! A "non-gimped" rogue at level 5 has issues with 44 DC traps (e.g. in L5 elite house k quests).

[Roderickus]

Ok so to my understanding u won't be able to do any traps until lvl 20?

Oh there is a reason. I don't recall that leader posted it for normal bit f so it was his mistake cause we agreed we were doing it mostly for favor (banks slots). It's your build, do what u want with it. I'm just surprised that a Barbarian could do better.

[kernal42]

I'm just surprised that a Barbarian could do better.

It probably shouldn't be: More levels of rogue make it easier to be proficient at traps, but (unless you blow some AP) don't make you better at finding/disabling traps.

Both builds are capable of having the same gear for traps and can achieve max ranks in the skills.

The barbarian may even have a higher int bonus; he actually needs the int for the skill points, while the rogue does not.

Cheers,
Kernal

[Keybreaker]

What kind of ijiot barb would splash rog level??!

I think only people from noob guilds do that. I doubt that anyone would be able to cap such a horribly built toon.

Gah! I've been exposed.

(You're right irony/sarcasm don't always translate well... but it always hurts to try! )

[Solmage]

What kind of ijiot barb would splash rog level??!

I dunno!

[Ungood]

I can't speak for anyone else,. but my last 4 shroud runs, I think I pulled in 3 - 4 rogues each run (or at least they had the Rogue icon) I mean.. it was just a Shroud run.

[CrushingInklings]

There is nothing wrong with declining poorly built rogues whos profiles are only showing 250 hp, low% fort and other red flags. But sadly the norm when puging on this server is to just decline all rogues no mater how well built and geared.

There is a pretty static group that post raids in the mornings(EST) that will not take rogues on even normal raid runs. I have dropped from their runs a few times when i see the rogue icon taken down when looking for more melee. There is zero reason that a raid leader should be doing this. If you cant take 10 seconds to check profiles then you shouldn't be leading raids. When i check the players they have invited and i see level 20 barbs and fighters with 400 or less hp i just have to shake my head and sigh. Icons don't = good players. This form of raid leading only adds to a VERY bad stereotype. There are even more poorly built/played other classes as there are poorly played/built rogues on this server.

People need to start questioning raid leaders when they do this. Call them out for their inability to form a group to its best potential. Leave groups who have this mentality if you have to to get your point across. We are going to keep seeing a drop in rogues on this server unless people start educating both sides of the problem.

[karl_k0ch]

There is nothing wrong with declining poorly built rogues whos profiles are only showing 250 hp, low% fort and other red flags. But sadly the norm when puging on this server is to just decline all rogues no mater how well built and geared.

There is a pretty static group that post raids in the mornings(EST) that will not take rogues on even normal raid runs. I have dropped from their runs a few times when i see the rogue icon taken down when looking for more melee. There is zero reason that a raid leader should be doing this. If you cant take 10 seconds to check profiles then you shouldn't be leading raids. When i check the players they have invited and i see level 20 barbs and fighters with 400 or less hp i just have to shake my head and sigh. Icons don't = good players. This form of raid leading only adds to a VERY bad stereotype. There are even more poorly built/played other classes as there are poorly played/built rogues on this server.

People need to start questioning raid leaders when they do this. Call them out for their inability to form a group to its best potential. Leave groups who have this mentality if you have to to get your point across. We are going to keep seeing a drop in rogues on this server unless people start educating both sides of the problem.

I am glad that Orien has reasonable players. I hope you stay for a while.

[Qezuzu]

There is nothing wrong with declining poorly built rogues whos profiles are only showing 250 hp, low% fort and other red flags. But sadly the norm when puging on this server is to just decline all rogues no mater how well built and geared.

idk I mean I have the Abishai Set, Ravager Set, 477 HP (unbuffed), 36 unbuffed STR, LitII's, dual +4 Holy Silver of LOB, and the inherent class features of Improved Evasion, 17d6+29 SA damage, 30% haste boost, and the godly active PL feat of +10 SA damage, but I must be lower DPS (and squishier) than an ungeared, 350 HP fighter who uses a +2 met of PG or whatever, because a sizable portion of raid leaders (that don't recognize me) decline me because "lol their's no traps in hear we need DPS".

Orien is a bit slower on the ball than other servers.. but I will say that the situation is way better than it was a few months ago. I don't have much trouble getting into any raid, but it's probably more because a lot of people recognize me. It's a lot harder for poorly played, poorly geared rogues to get into raids. If I'm hosting Shroud or something I'll let them in, because hey; it's ****ing shroud, we can handle carrying this 220 HP deathmagnet. Then, when the die, give them a lecture about how important HP is, how heavy fort is not optional, and then show them some items that will increase their HP. Minos and a ToD belt with GFL are very easy to obtain and give a huge 110 HP to toons that don't have any other source of those bonuses.

The REAL challenge now is accepting arcanes (especially sorcs) as a DPS class.