Should Warforged be Prevented from Becoming Pale Masters?

[Zachski]

To the people being so adamant that warforge should not be allowed to be pale masters im rather getting the impresssion that you are jelous of some in game skill that was applied, my suggestion is go have your fun and let other people have theirs - pale master on a warforge is far from optimal and I can assure you that any player doing well with this combo is going to do equaly as well with a different or with no prestige.

The funny thing is, a Pale Master Warforged has no advantage over any other Pale Master. Archmage and before level 6 is a different story, but then breaking boxes for cure potions solves that issue.

[varusso]

Uh... you DO realize Eberron has existed long before DDO has existed, right?

No, I was COMPLETELY unaware of the fact that Eberron had to exist prior to DDO in order for DDO to be based upon it.

Once again, read the last 2 lines of what you quoted:

Most of the race/class restrictions have been removed across the board in DnD and in DDO. There is no real reason to add them back in.

Oh yeah, and DDO =/= DnD.

[unbongwah]

Actually, doesn't Eberron lack an alignment restriction on worshiping deities? As in, you could be Lawful Good and worship an evil deity.

Beats me - I don't actually care, I just like riling people who do.

[RudeIota]

Aren't there like 2 differnt GOOD aligned Undead in DDO right now. The Undying Mummies in that one horrable horrable quest and The Doomsphere!

Not sure about the mummies, but ghosts are an exception in D&D PnP, if that's of any consequence.

I know DDO isn't D&D, but there is enough material here which is based on PnP to take this kind of D&D canon into consideration. When attention to those details are lost, DDO becomes (potentially) a little more generic.

[NeoVidGITP]

But yeah, D&D does have that whole "OMOMG Undead are super evil" thing going on.

Not in Eberron. The Undying Court is called that because they're undead revered ancestors.

[Yaga_Nub]

Just to clarify: WF are the perfect race. Such perfection should not be sullied by assumption of the traits of dead fleshies.

[Rian]

let me start by saying that i have a warforge pale master and my reason for taking this prestige rather than archmage was infact the lore you mention. My character has spent a great deal of time investigating the nature of the warforge soul - you can soul trap a warforge btw, but you cant soul trap a golem or other construct.

ok on the surface the op has a valid question, however...

1. The treaty you mentioned was recorded by the flesh races, the warforge in the mournlands have a very different opinion - they belive that warforge do indeed have souls - and that there is no memory of afterlife as yet for warforge because they are a new race awaiting the formation of their own god - whom the lord of blades is an avatar.

2. The pale master prestige allows the mage to assume some traits of undead for a limited time using magic in pen and paper shroud of undeath is a lvl 8 spell. They are not undead, atleast not yet - that would require a phylactery most likely and has not been done by any warforge to date that we know of - my character is working on this - one day i can hope i guess.

3. The original warforge were created by the quori long before the dragon marked houses appeared, they were to be vessels to provide form to a idea. House cannith rebuilt and used ancient manufactories - this is a closely guarded secret and would not have been mentioned at the treaty.

4. The recent batch of warforge do not have quori inside them but a soul is necesary for life - the void is being filled by something, but no one knows what - yet.

5. many warforge are created with crystals and especialy dragon shards in side them - this is more than sufficient explanation for warforge sorcerers - the draconic elemental energy is coming from syberis, eberon or khyber. An alternative explanation is that said energy is coming from whatever 'soul' they may have.

6. It has been speculated by many scholars in eberon that the warfoge share a collective soul.


proofs of experimantation.
As i said i have spent time investigation the nature of the warforge soul, in turbines vision of ebberon the folowing hold ture, can be proven both by experiment and evidence.

1. warforge have souls - uniquely diferent to any other creature on eberon and seperate from each other.
2. undead have souls - uniquely diferent from the soul of the original form, ie a human soul is diferent to a zombie human soul.
3. aberations such as vulkoor have souls that are diferent to both scorpion souls and drow souls.
4. constructs that cannot be healed by divine magic, positive or negative energy do not have souls, and cannot be raised.

the conclusions i came to was:
1. the warforge soul is mesureable. each warforge has a seperate soul.
2. The form and function of the body determine the type of energy associated with a soul. A body must be 'alive' to have a soul.
3. The definition of 'alive' is that divine energy must work on it.
4. If divine energy works on a body then the associated soul must be present or semi present in another plane - ie it must have an afterlife.

the logical but unfortunatly unproveable conclusion is that the warforge of the mournlands are infact correct, warforge cannot remember passing over because the plane to which they would pass is still not fully formed - the god to whom warforge will pay reverence has not yet awoken.


And finaly:
As much as i enjoy the lore associated with eberon remember that ddo is a game, If warforge had been barred from taking pale master from the get go that would have been acceptable - however at this stage what you are asking for would out right runin many peoples characters.

To the people being so adamant that warforge should not be allowed to be pale masters im rather getting the impresssion that you are jelous of some in game skill that was applied, my suggestion is go have your fun and let other people have theirs - pale master on a warforge is far from optimal and I can assure you that any player doing well with this combo is going to do equaly as well with a different or with no prestige.

I'd +1 you if I could for defending the race that is warforged in their regards of having a soul.

[Gulnar13]

For "the forge of war", page 85.

""The necromancers of Karnnath have made a horrific discovery deep in the gray mist. A band of warforged once assumed to be part of the Lord of Blades' cult are in fact nothing of the kind. Just as the warforged are "sort of" alive, they can apparently become "sort of" undead. These "woeforged," as the necromancers have come to call them, are rusted and broken, just as normal undead are often decayed, and they show the same affinity for negative energy as other undead. Where they came from, who created them, and what they can do remain unclear."

Also, i'm pretty sure warforgeds CAN take, in PnP, the Tomb-Tainted Soul trait, which switch up positive and negative energy healing/damage.

[Truga]

The whole undead = evil thing just never was true. There's even good liches around. Sure, they're rare, but they're there. You can even meet one if you go play the first icewind dale.

Also, yeah it has been said already. Undead warforged is like an undead tree. Think http://www.l2portal.com/Images/Npcs/..._mon_20144.jpg. These can be heal-bombed too, and are healed by negative energy.

Also, I played archmage until level 18. It worked just fine, but PM is a much better all-rounder so I switched over (I already had greater necro focus by 18). The only real difference I found was that getting knocked down doesn't always mean death, because aura keeps ticking, and SP going a bit further in shrine starved quests because of the ability to just spam necro bolts for nearly 0 sp (still need aura ticking).

Edit: Gulnar was faster than me :P

[Tumarek]

...
WF should not be allowed as sorcerers.
...

The traditional Sorc wouldnt make sense as WF dont have parent they could inherent dragon blood with, but lets say the livewood tree (or whatever its really called) the WF was constructed of was watered with dragonblood

There is almost always a solution.. maybe Cannith had a farm of dragonblood watered trees to make these special WF.

[NUDS]

Do you really want to know how WF sorcs are created?

Male WF + Tasty Ham Oil + Female Sorcerer = baby WF Sorcerer!


Yeah..

[richieelias27]

You're absolutely right. Warforged have no place being undead. Instead, they should make all WF palemasters take on traits of flesh golems since that could be presumed to be the construct equivalent.

New WF Palemaster stats:
Healed & Hasted by electric attacks, immunity to acid and sonic, 80% resist to fire and cold.

There, that's much better.

[Corwinsky]

So PMs are using negative energy to assume the traits of a undead. But aren't WFs immune to negative energy? So it shouldn't affect them whether the effect is a beneficiary one or not.

In any case as others have mentionned DDO can put in place whatever rules they want.
They've already shown multiple times that they don't strictly follow the PnP rules and can even change them late in the life cycle of this product especially when it unbalances in their view the game (like auto-crit on held monsters, double fire dmg on undeads)

Casters that can repair or heal themselves (WF arcanes and any type of PMs) and have almost illimited sp (torc, pots, bauble, ring of spell storing) unbalance greatly the game.
No quest level 25 should be soloable by 1 level 20 so they should do something about it.

[dkyle]

So PMs are using negative energy to assume the traits of a undead. But aren't WFs immune to negative energy? So it shouldn't affect them whether the effect is a beneficiary one or not.

No, not immune. They do resist it, I believe, like they resist healing.

Casters that can repair or heal themselves (WF arcanes and any type of PMs) and have almost illimited sp (torc, pots, bauble, ring of spell storing) unbalance greatly the game.
No quest level 25 should be soloable by 1 level 20 so they should do something about it.

Don't want to argue about this in general, but as it relates to this thread, a WF PM isn't really any more self-sufficient than a normal WF caster, so this doesn't argue against WF PMs. Honestly, I'd take Reconstruct over PM healing.

[Ravoc-DDO]

Dear Turbine, can I have a halfling juggernaut? Pretty please?

[mournbladereigns]

I'd +1 you if I could for defending the race that is warforged in their regards of having a soul.

So True, every1 knows its WF *players* that have no soul. <rimshot>

"What kind of times are they, when
A talk about trees is almost a crime
Because it implies silence about so many horrors?"
- Bertolt Brecht, To Those Born Later