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  1. #1
    Hero AZgreentea's Avatar
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    Default Should Warforged be Prevented from Becoming Pale Masters?

    I was reading "The Grand History of Eberron" and I came across this passage in the race section (Warforged, page 432):

    The Treaty of Thronehold gave warforged their freedom, but only after great debate. House Cannith and Thrane argued ardently that warforged were not living creatures because they do not possess souls. Their evidence for this was that warforged cannot become undead by any known method, not even ghosts or wraiths. They are immune to energy drain, and no one knows of a warforged soul in Dolurrh, the Realm of the Dead. Breland argued that because warforged can be raised from the dead, they must have souls. Of course, House Cannith and Thrane countered that no warforged brought back from death told tales of any kind of afterlife. In the end, the Question of Souls, as that portion of the negotiations came to be known, was left unanswered.
    The editor was using source material and novels, though it appears to have been sourced from 2006. Things could have changed since then. Does anyone know if there is a lore appropriate reason to ALLOW WF to take the undead forms available to PM's?
    The problem is never how to get new, innovative thoughts into your mind, but how to get old ones out. Every mind is a building filled with archaic furniture. Clean out a corner of your mind and creativity will instantly fill it.
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  2. #2
    Community Member Yaga_Nub's Avatar
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    WF should not be allowed to become PMs.

    EOL.
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  3. #3
    Hero Gkar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yaga_Nub View Post
    WF should not be allowed to become PMs.

    EOL.
    Agreed. People raised that when PM came out.

  4. #4
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Yaga_Nub View Post
    WF should not be allowed to become PMs.
    And paladins shouldn't serve evil gods, yet drow & WF pallies can be servants of Vulkoor & Lord of Blades, respectively. What's your point? That Turbine has taken liberties with PnP Eberron lore? Wow, that's a shocker...
    Semi-retired Build Engineer. Everything was better back in our day. Get off my lawn.

  5. #5
    Community Member Zachski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by unbongwah View Post
    And paladins shouldn't serve evil gods, yet drow & WF pallies can be servants of Vulkoor & Lord of Blades, respectively. What's your point? That Turbine has taken liberties with PnP Eberron lore? Wow, that's a shocker...
    Actually, doesn't Eberron lack an alignment restriction on worshiping deities? As in, you could be Lawful Good and worship an evil deity.
    The guy who likes to experience every class. Except Fighter >:[ I don't like you Fighter.
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  6. #6
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zachski View Post
    Actually, doesn't Eberron lack an alignment restriction on worshiping deities? As in, you could be Lawful Good and worship an evil deity.
    Beats me - I don't actually care, I just like riling people who do.
    Semi-retired Build Engineer. Everything was better back in our day. Get off my lawn.

  7. #7
    Community Member dkyle's Avatar
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    Pale Masters don't become undead. They take on undead traits.

    And in any event, consistent and coherent game design should trump lore minutiae anyway. Silly race/class restrictions don't belong in DDO. WF Pale Master is already fairly sub-optimal.

  8. #8
    Community Member Vyrn's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dkyle View Post
    Pale Masters don't become undead. They take on undead traits.

    And in any event, consistent and coherent game design should trump lore minutiae anyway. Silly race/class restrictions don't belong in DDO. WF Pale Master is already fairly sub-optimal.
    This. Flavor is great and all, just not when it interferes with game design, like now.
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  9. #9
    Community Member Dawnsfire's Avatar
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    Honestly I think there should be PREs that are race restricted. Pale Masters probably shouldn't be warforged but until they roll out other PREs that are (Dwarven Defender or Warforged Juggernaut) people will rightly complain that warforged characters are be unfairly excluded. It is a curse of the development cycle I suppose.

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  10. #10
    Community Member Cyr's Avatar
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    Nope, limiting game options based upon flavor is a bad idea.
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  11. #11
    Community Member varusso's Avatar
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    A paladin is a beacon of the light, requiring lawful-good, and was restricted to human and elf only in classic DnD (later Dwarf added IIRC).
    Drow are evil by definition, yet somehow we have non-evil drow running around as paladins.
    We have HALFLING paladins for crying out loud.
    And paladins were not 'allowed' to group with thieves/rogues unless the thief/rogue was HONESTLY and LEGITIMATELY trying to reform.

    Most of the race/class restrictions have been removed across the board in DnD and in DDO. There is no real reason to add them back in.

    Oh yeah, and DDO =/= DnD.

  12. #12
    Hero Gkar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by varusso View Post
    A paladin is a beacon of the light, requiring lawful-good, and was restricted to human and elf only in classic DnD (later Dwarf added IIRC).
    Drow are evil by definition, yet somehow we have non-evil drow running around as paladins.
    We have HALFLING paladins for crying out loud.
    And paladins were not 'allowed' to group with thieves/rogues unless the thief/rogue was HONESTLY and LEGITIMATELY trying to reform.

    Most of the race/class restrictions have been removed across the board in DnD and in DDO. There is no real reason to add them back in.

    Oh yeah, and DDO =/= DnD.
    This game is based on 3.5 Eberron setting D&D. None of the suff you list above is true of the Eberron 3.5 setting.

  13. #13
    Community Member varusso's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gkar View Post
    This game is based on 3.5 Eberron setting D&D. None of the suff you list above is true of the Eberron 3.5 setting.
    I am aware of that. Read the last 2 lines you quoted.

  14. #14
    Community Member Zachski's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by varusso View Post
    I am aware of that. Read the last 2 lines you quoted.
    Uh... you DO realize Eberron has existed long before DDO has existed, right?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bodic View Post
    I do believe the first Sorc you meet is a WF,
    and Undead traits is not UNDEAD.

    DDO lore is not PnP DnD lore.
    Actually, in this case, it is. It's Eberron lore. Eberron is a setting for PnP DnD.

    Now, DDO's mechanics are only based off of PnP DnD's mechanics.
    Last edited by Zachski; 06-01-2011 at 03:06 PM.
    The guy who likes to experience every class. Except Fighter >:[ I don't like you Fighter.
    Hey Devs! Let's give Warpriests and Eldritch Knights some loving, kay? :<

  15. #15
    Community Member MartinusWyllt's Avatar
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    This doesn't work for you?

  16. #16
    Community Member Tuney's Avatar
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    Aren't there like 2 differnt GOOD aligned Undead in DDO right now. The Undying Mummies in that one horrable horrable quest and The Doomsphere!

  17. #17
    Community Member Bodic's Avatar
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    long story short normally good can be evil normally evil can be good
    you dont have to be alignment x to be a follower of deity x.

    Define Eberron long before DDO less than 5 years is not long before 20 years is long before.

    DDO is not PnP DnD

    Your Eberron lore is PnP DnD

  18. #18
    Community Member Zorack00's Avatar
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    No, any reason dealing with flavor is invalid.
    Dinosaur.

  19. #19
    Community Member Phidius's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AZgreentea View Post
    What flesh? WF are made of stone, metal, and wood. How can stone, metal, and wood take on the traits of a zombie, or any undead creature? ...
    One way is to put on a Docent of Blood

    Quote Originally Posted by AZgreentea View Post
    ... There are race specific enhancements, why shouldnt there be race specific restrictions? We have some with Halflings and their weight limit.
    You mean like how WF get less benefit from healing spells?
    "I require a reminder as to why raining arcane destruction is not an appropriate response to all of life's indignities" - Vaarsuvius, OoTS #674

  20. #20
    Community Member MartinusWyllt's Avatar
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    Magic changing wood into flesh?

    Why that has no precedent!


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