UMD and you.

[knightgf]

While I tend to use UMD gear quite a bit on my barbarian, on a rogue, getting a decent UMD score with skill and gear is quite easy. Let's look at some of the easy stuff at level 20:

23 base
3 persuasion
(8 base CHA + 6 item + 2 tome) 3 CHA
4 Greater Heroism
5 rogue action boost
1 good luck
1 rogue skill mastery

That alone would be enough to UMD Level 6 scrolls and wands without failure. Now, with a bit of challenge, you might be able to hit these UMD marks:

6 Triple Positive or Air Greensteel item
1 +2 exceptional CHA
3 Enhancement Bonus
Additional +1 from Good luck +2
1 Yugoloth Potion
Additional +2 from competence +5

When it comes to the gear mentioned, the good luck +1 bonus can come from either crafting or from Delara's tomb end-reward. You can get a persuasion item from either VoN 5-6, the circlet of persuasion, or by crafting. Obviously the greensteel items come from shroud, and for the exceptional CHA, you can try getting a ToD ring and craft it on there or a greensteel weapon. However, I wouldn't recommend crafting a greensteel weapon because the only three sources of good luck +2 is either getting the reavers trinket, a dream edge with good luck +2 or crafting. The enhancement bonus can come either from the epic spyglass from ye 'ol crystal cove or malacia's hat. If you really want to, you can try going for the seven fingered gloves from the titan raid, but good luck with that.

One thing to keep in mind is that you don't need to wear your UMD gear all the time. Heck, just keep your combat gear on, and when you need to UMD something, just put it on and scroll/wand away.

[Gkar]

From a fighting perspecting however you're not fighting if you're scroll reading or wand whipping. IN actual toe to toe is quick to drink a pot... if you need a ton hp in a shot - then you by rights back off and then use a scroll.

Absolutely true.

But when things start to go screwy being able to back off for a second, pop a scroll or a couple cure crit hits, can be what keeps you up when the party goes down.

And then of course its your UMD that lets you get the cleric back up with a raise dead scroll so things can get back on track. Or lets you raise another party member who is down so the cleric can keep concentrating on healing whoever is still standing.

[RJBsComputer]

Another thing to consider is this. If you are in a fight, you may not be able or more importantly, safely, switch out gear to get that no fail UMD. That is why it is important that your standing UMD is high enough so you have 75% to 80% chance of hitting a Heal Scroll, UMD 40, when you are in a furball.

[brzytki]

Another thing to consider is this. If you are in a fight, you may not be able or more importantly, safely, switch out gear to get that no fail UMD. That is why it is important that your standing UMD is high enough so you have 75% to 80% chance of hitting a Heal Scroll, UMD 40, when you are in a furball.

What he said.

Plus, it's also important that u have some heal amp. Being able to heal yourself for more than standard 100hp can be huge. On Kyo, my assassin, i can heal myself for 159hp, including ship buff, per Heal scroll. That's only with 10% from ship, 10% from human enh and 20% on DT (honestly don't know where the missing 10% comes from).

[delsoboss]

Pure rogue, 28 pt, f2p i usually run around at:
23 ranks
01 skill mastery
02 good luck (epic ring of the bucaneer T3)
03 enchantement (epic looking spyglass T3) ... no Sands pack so no "The Blood Stone"
03 charisma (charismatic +6 ring of resistance +2)
03 persuasion (self crafted goggles)
04 GH (from a friendly arcane caster or from my own Planar Gird)
----
39 total

If i'm going to face a tough fight or a boss fight and no one casted GH on me i use the Gird, if i'm going to assassinate something or disable a trap i switch the persuasion goggles with int +6 then switch back ... usually ... if i remember.

[Uchuujin-San]

What he said.

Plus, it's also important that u have some heal amp. Being able to heal yourself for more than standard 100hp can be huge. On Kyo, my assassin, i can heal myself for 159hp, including ship buff, per Heal scroll. That's only with 10% from ship, 10% from human enh and 20% on DT (honestly don't know where the missing 10% comes from).

Pretty sure heal scrolls are caster level 11 which is 110 base healing.

on my barb with rogue splash i have:
23 ranks
4 18 Cha (10 base 6 item 2 boat)
4 GH
3 Bunny hat competence
5 Cove Trinket (3 enchantment 2 slotted good luck)
39 Total with the only swap being the trinket.

At lvl 15 you should be able to hit:
18 ranks
3 Cha 16
4 GH
3 Bunny hat or cartouche
28 total

while not great its more than enough for wand whipping in a pinch (i wouldnt suggest heal scrolling with only 40% chance). At cap 39 umd shouldn't take too much gear swapping

[Thaxlsillyia]

No full rogue, but I have two with rogue splashes.

My Wizard/Rogue has this as her permanently worn equipment:
23 Ranks
3 CHA mod
4 Greater Heroism
5 Seven Fingered Gloves (arcane dexterity as a side bonus)
3 Epic Tier 3 Spyglass (one of the best in slot for a wiz/rogue)
2 Good Luck slotted into the Spyglass
--
40
All of this UMD boosting equipment is great for a splashed caster as well, so it's easy to get the necessary UMD. I need 6 more Shrouds before I can make my Conc Opp accessory (made an HP item first).

I think a caster-rogue splash is very different form a pure rogue. the 0 concentration that a pure rogue ends up with makes the spot use of scrolls very hard. I can get UMD up to no fail heal scrolls on my rogue but i use it more for interval buffing/healing/teleport or to res the battle cleric very rarely i might pull off the main fight to heal myself but the clerics usually keep most ppl alive. my standing umd is much less but enough for me to use any cross class/alignment items.
i think an rogue-monk (mogue if you will) can make much better use of umd due to concentration being an important monk skill.

Standing - 31
23 ranks
02 skill masteryx2
02 good luck (epic ring of the bucaneer)
04 GH (GH/Planar Gird)

Swap in-40
03 enchantement (epic looking spyglass T3 for blood stone)
03 charisma (charismatic +6 ring in place of intel +6)
03 delera necklace (in place of amrath con +6 necklace)

Short term - 42
02 - rogue skill boost1

[Thlargir]

Keep in mind as well that heal scrolls aren't your only option. Cure mod, serious, or crit wands work well and are cheaper and lighter than pots to carry.

True, but you don't have to equip potions to use them...

capped human assassin
Standard equip
23 ranks
03 cha (8+2+6)
03 epic spyglass
04 GH
02 good luck
03 skill focus UMD
01 ship cha
39

Exceptional
05 human skill
03 cartouche
06 GS cha skill
53

no fail base heal, no fail any scroll in exceptional circumstances.

Edited: To align numbers...

[Aerendil]

Keep in mind, it's not just the Heal scrolls and Raise Dead scrolls you're after.
You can Freedom of Movement yourself, GH yourself (although most have girds), stoneskin, displacement (these 2 replaceable with GS items), etc, etc.

If you can get into the 50+s, you can start looking at scrolls such as Greater Teleport, Power Word: Blind, and PW: Kill, among others.

More UMD = more soloability.
However, if you don't tell to solo or shortman things, you can replicate 99% of things with items.

[Draccus]

I like to think of my UMD in terms of "no swap" UMD, "one-swap" UMD, and max UMD, based on how many items I need to swap. As is mentioned above, having a no-swap UMD of 39 is the key to happiness. My build is based around having a 39 no-swap UMD. I'd sacrifice DPS for it -- it's that important. Of course, I solo a lot and play with people who expect a lot of self sufficiency. Here's how I do it:

No-swap
23 ranks
2 base charisma (10 + 4 tome)
1 PL:SoS
1 Skill Mastery
6 Charisma Skills (Triple Air Greensteel bracers)
2 Luck (blue slot on Epic Red Dragonhide Armor)
4 GH
------
39

One-swap
Add +4 from +8 Cha ToD ring for 43

Max
+5 (Seven Finger Gloves)
+1 (Boat buff +2 Cha)
+3 Spyglass
-----------
52 (totally unnecessary and I don't even carry the gloves or spyglass)

[Emili]

Absolutely true.

But when things start to go screwy being able to back off for a second, pop a scroll or a couple cure crit hits, can be what keeps you up when the party goes down.

And then of course its your UMD that lets you get the cleric back up with a raise dead scroll so things can get back on track. Or lets you raise another party member who is down so the cleric can keep concentrating on healing whoever is still standing.

That's true ... and I never said it was not. Fact is however UMD comes as a worth while skill under the bleak conditions.... undergeared, poor party or screwed up random dungeon conditions. UMD's value to you and the party drop off under a well geared party, good planning leadership and a good team effort placed forth.

Nothing is truer from a Spell Singer Bard's perspective and I'll state my case in how, where and why. When the group is emmitting and just overpowering the quest... the scope of such character then functions as a supportive melee and CC with the occasional pitting of battle healing while engaged... When the group itself is slightly overwhelmed the character draws back and plays more passively in focus of keeping folk alive.

The "**** hits the fan" - this is usually, due for reason. If it is not the servers fault - being some laggy instance ... it is an oversight or fall out of the plan being in error in some form - something was not taken into consideration before the encounter.

Soloability - Is understanding the quest and being prepared for such... There is not a character class I have not solo'd at level. I've solo'd elite armaths on characters both with and without UMD. I will admit the "god skill" is a great skill to have but it is not the end-all-be-all skill so many make it out to be. While it is nice that heal scrolls and resurection scrolls are cheap means the alternatives do exist. One deams the importance of said skill within the synergy of the "character's build." UMD is far more value to a "jack of trades", drop into mid tier melee high skill build or an actual casting build... let me state as to why. Personally I would never build a rogue wo such... I would never build a casting class wo such either. The scope of fall back as a melee yields staying power but increases the timeframe mob live whereas on an actual casting class - one click you heal and are within one click of killing a group of mob.

[skunk]

Despite having UMD as a class skill and being aware of the fact the Heal Scrolls are just that good, I actually did not bother with thinking about getting my UMD score up to reasonable high levels on my (currently level 15) rogue. Upon being asked "You are a rogue. Why don't you use scrolls to heal yourself?" in a curious, not angry fashion I started to think about how and if I can get heal scrolls working while leveling.

So, I am interested in what other rogue players do.

How much UMD gear do you have incorporated in your typical fighting setup?

This applies both to mid- and end-level gear. I know that there is a plethora of UMD-boosting items (Golden Cartouche, Big Top, Spyglass, GH clickie, GS +cha skill items, Head/Voice/Bucaneer, et al), but I am really interested in how many slots you dedicate to the goal of achieving that magic number 39.

I don't use UMD till 18+. if i am solo, i just get a hireling cleric. No point wasting money on scrolls.

I think i run with about 32 UMD, I self cast GH if i need to scoll heal. on my 20 rogue, i keep my spyglass on, and my event ring on, its part of my gear set up for now. No point wasting a feat on UMD. Skill boost if you really need it, though i don't take that either, as my search and DD are 55+

[.Revenga.]

I use one and a half slot for my UMD:
A tod ring with +6char on it and gs litII guard gloves with +6 skill.
That brings me to 39 with GH and it's defenitly worth the slot.

Failing heal scrolls is just dangerous, it's the most probable way that my rogue would get into trouble ( and
the cooldown after a fail just seems to last ages).

Having scrolls for self healing is so wonderful, it makes you completely self sufficient and the amount of deaths
will be reduced to the occasional fail hox or tod.

With 10+20+30% healing amp (ship+DT armor+triple pos weapon that you equip together with the scroll) they will hit you for more then 180hp too.

[Nouda_EU]

Gear set up on my mechanic repeater:

Helm: Epic Chimera's Crown (+6 Int, +6 Cha in yellow and colourless slots)
Neck: Epic Necklace of Venom
Trinket: Epic Treasure Hunter's Spyglass - Tier 3 (Toughness in green slot)
Back: Supreme Tyrant Green Steel Weave Cloak of Earth (+45 Hp +6 Con Skills Earthgrab Guard)
Belt: Mechanics Belt
Ring: Epic Ring of The Buccaneer (GFL in the Green slot)
Gloves: Seven Fingered Gloves
Boots: Feather Falling of Balance +10
Ring: Ring of Deftness (+2 dex)
Bracers: Wind Howlers Bracers
Body: Epic Vulkoorim Fighting Leathers (Heavy fort and +6 Strenght in the blue and colourless slots)
Goggles: Epic Goggles of Time-Sensing (Empty Slots) /GS hot swappable +int/dex/cha skill googless

So I have 23 Ranks +2 Luck +3 Exceptional +5 Item +4 Ability Bonus sitting me one 37

I can also used GH, and goggles for another 10 for 47

And skill boost would give me +3 for 50 and bard song for another 2 at 52

[Sarisa]

The more your group splits up to do quests faster, the more important it is to be able to self heal, and be able to take care of any important buff that gets dispelled.

At lower levels, UMD'ing wands between battles and potions in battle are enough. At high levels, you may need to break off, kite a little, and toss the scroll.

And as mentioned, Heal scrolls are best for those who can't cast it (and even great for those who can to save SP). FoM when you can get it, Deathward, Halt Undead, Knock (for divines and bards, hits about 50% of all chests and doors), Blur, Displacement, Invisibility, Teleport, Greater Teleport, Restoration, Raise Dead or Resurrection, D. Door when you can get the scrolls, Reconstruct, and even the occasional Cloudkill for concealment.

[voodoogroves]

Gear swaps are how I do it mostly. I don't wear UMD gear all the time, but I swap in:

skill booster (cartouche, persuasion, command item)
CHA + 6 item
luck item (spyglass ideally, head if not, voice if not)

those are readily available

bunny hat if I have it
tier 3 spyglass if I have it

[blametroi]

At level 15 my rogue has been maxing UMD. She's a h'elf and I took the full wizard dilettante (the cooperation with int for an assassin made this the obvious choice) and between UMD and having the lack of UMD restrictions that a level 10 wizard would have, she can do most everything I want her to at this point. I didn't use UMD on her first life, and it was a big mistake.

I don't worry about her healing herself as much as her being able to help the party out in a jam. She also self buffs rather well and can now hit GH scrolls and such.

No fail stone skin, protection from elements, summoning, etc., it's great for solo play or odd party mixes.

I haven't had much luck with offensive casting but I keep a few wands in case a situation ever comes up in a party where I might serve best by standing back and zapping.

Oh, and some of the best rapiers and gear I've seen have had alignment or race restrictions ... these are not a problem anymore ... level 13 skill items at level 11 anyone?

[karl_k0ch]

At level 15 my rogue has been maxing UMD. She's a h'elf and I took the full wizard dilettante (the cooperation with int for an assassin made this the obvious choice) and between UMD and having the lack of UMD restrictions that a level 10 wizard would have, she can do most everything I want her to at this point. I didn't use UMD on her first life, and it was a big mistake.

I don't worry about her healing herself as much as her being able to help the party out in a jam. She also self buffs rather well and can now hit GH scrolls and such.

No fail stone skin, protection from elements, summoning, etc., it's great for solo play or odd party mixes.

I am not surprised at all that you are maxing UMD - anyone who hasn't lost his or her marbles should do that.

On the other hand, this thread is actually asking a different question. Posting your current gear setup which allows you to achieve that great UMD value would be actually much appreciated.

[blametroi]

I am not surprised at all that you are maxing UMD - anyone who hasn't lost his or her marbles should do that.

On the other hand, this thread is actually asking a different question. Posting your current gear setup which allows you to achieve that great UMD value would be actually much appreciated.

I misundertook the point of the thread, but anyway ... not much gear really. I've got the +1 item from the Crystal Cove that I don't put on unless I get a failure. Ship buffs and being able to GH and hit the skill boost are doing it so far at level 15. Of course I've also got a +6 charisma cloak when the situation demands it, but so far I haven't had to switch gear. She stays geared for combat almost all the time.

I want to get the Cartouche and the gloves from the Titan raid at some point, but so far not having either isn't hurting.