Ki attacks with Ki weapons - what's available?

[Lloirin]

This topic is entirely about the monk class, but would be most useful for non-majority monk multiclasses. I've been searching for a nice neat list of which attacks you can add to a ki weapon - all elemental attacks appear to work, at least with shortswords and qstaffs. So the two-part inquiry:

Part One - which ki attacks work with melee monk weapons (kama, qstaff, shortsword, longsword):
Any elemental strike (from stances)
Void strikes?

Part Two - which ki attacks work with ranged monk weapons (shuriken, longbow, shortbow):
AFAIK, nothing works with shuriken. What about with a longbow? Can you apply the curse of healing while holding a longbow or shuriken? I assume you can use light monk curative abilities... I've heard no ki is gained from ranged attacks, is that true?

I like designing unusual and capable melee multiclasses. This would help me on more than one build, and I was hoping to find a prepared list but could not. I'll do some more research with my dark monk and post it here, but any help compiling this data would be appreciated.

-LL

[destiny4405]

i dont think that any ki attacks work with ranged. everything works for melee, or should if it isnt bugged or unarmed specified.

[t0r012]

No ki strikes work with ranged weapons.

For other ki strkes eveything works except a few that only work unarmed which are stunning fist, touch of death and quivering palm.

I haven't tried any of the new shintao moves with a weapon but my guess is smite tainted and kukan do would work but that is just speculation on my part.
Honestly though if you have 12 monk for the tier II PrE you are very likely never going to touch a weapon beyond fists.

[Lloirin]

Honestly though if you have 12 monk for the tier II PrE you are very likely never going to touch a weapon beyond fists.

Absolutely right. This is for the /2monks and the /6monks and the occasional /8monk. Once you're rolling 2d6 per hand or higher, you're holding yourself back by using anything other than handwraps.

It seems like the list for what DOESN'T work with melee ki weapons is a shorter list.
Stunning Fist, Quivering Palm, Touch of Death... can anyone confirm more unusable moves? Finishers too.

[solacerodgers]

All light monk strikes except jade tomb will work with a weapon I use my rhals might all the time and toss void strikes and such into it. None with ranged weapons sadly.

[jakeelala]

Absolutely right. This is for the /2monks and the /6monks and the occasional /8monk. Once you're rolling 2d6 per hand or higher, you're holding yourself back by using anything other than handwraps.

It seems like the list for what DOESN'T work with melee ki weapons is a shorter list.
Stunning Fist, Quivering Palm, Touch of Death... can anyone confirm more unusable moves? Finishers too.

Why exactly do people feel this to be true? Unless you have fully upgraded ToD rings and nice very nice handwraps, the increased crit profile of a longsword and the effects of it being GS probably outweigh those fists pretty handily.

Now if you do have some very nice handwraps, and you do have both tod rings with explosive effects, then I imagine the damage is pretty close or equal. But to outright say you're holding yourself back at 2d6 per unarmed attack is painting with AWFULLY broad strokes in my opinion. What if you're an elf using WSS and +2/+2 enhancements?

[jakeelala]

although, due to the BEST unarmed Ki strikes not working with weapons (stunning fist, quivering palm and ToD), WSS is far less attractive.

Zen Archery is attractive for Arcane archer builds who want to stay in Mountain stance when they hit multishot for x4 Crits 19-20. It's pretty sick.

[solacerodgers]

those are the best ki strikes? Void VI, and the light monks ability to dismiss creatures are the most useful for me. Devils to eles pop there gone....

[Jaid314]

Why exactly do people feel this to be true? Unless you have fully upgraded ToD rings and nice very nice handwraps, the increased crit profile of a longsword and the effects of it being GS probably outweigh those fists pretty handily.

Now if you do have some very nice handwraps, and you do have both tod rings with explosive effects, then I imagine the damage is pretty close or equal. But to outright say you're holding yourself back at 2d6 per unarmed attack is painting with AWFULLY broad strokes in my opinion. What if you're an elf using WSS and +2/+2 enhancements?

1d8 + 2 = avg 6.5 damage
2d6 = 7.0 avg damage

add in that fists attack 10% faster... and you can use all of your strikes, instead of just most of them...

[Balkas]

1d8 + 2 = avg 6.5 damage
2d6 = 7.0 avg damage

add in that fists attack 10% faster... and you can use all of your strikes, instead of just most of them...

And don't forget that you get full strength bonus on offhand unarmed attacks.

Just to note...

GS Longswords are 1d10. And can have Lightning Strike

Of course you can increase your unarmed hit die with the Past Life Feat and Jidz/Garments of Equilibrium.

There are some decent shortswords, as well. The Epic Tier 3 Smallblade from CC is 2d6 + 6 18-20/x2. Epic Sting is 2d12 + 6 19-20/x2.

As a 12 Ninja Spy, going SS will save you an IC feat and "save" you a Stunning Fist feat, also.

You have options

[Carpone]

Why exactly do people feel this to be true? Unless you have fully upgraded ToD rings and nice very nice handwraps, the increased crit profile of a longsword and the effects of it being GS probably outweigh those fists pretty handily.

Now if you do have some very nice handwraps, and you do have both tod rings with explosive effects, then I imagine the damage is pretty close or equal. But to outright say you're holding yourself back at 2d6 per unarmed attack is painting with AWFULLY broad strokes in my opinion. What if you're an elf using WSS and +2/+2 enhancements?

Don't get so hung up on the 2d6 fists. It's very common for Fighter to be the remaining levels, so you'll have Weapon Specialization and the corresponding Kensai damage enhancements plus Haste Boost. Besides, every serious monk is going to TR once for the purchased past life feat, which is equivalent to +2 damage per unarmed hit.

The only real argument you can make for short swords or long swords is the ease of crafting Holy Burst Silver of Greater Lawful Outsider bane. Great for a first life monk who doesn't yet have ToD rings, or wasn't lucky with pulling Devouts during their Shadow Crypt runs. If you're a Shintao III monk, it's moot though since you can bypass silver and can craft Holy GLOB handwraps.

Do short swords or long sword provide 20 BAB like unarmed attacks? I don't think so, but I never checked. If not, there's yet another black eye against them since monks can have to-hit issues if not properly built/geared.