Frustrated Rant...

[azrael4h]

This one sadly is from a guildy, whom I've referred to here before. Repeatedly. He really should know better, after having capped not one, not even two, but FOUR characters.

To start, he pushed us into TRing earlier than I wanted to, taking two of his capped characters, a Cleric and a Paladin (which he plays all of them identically, so I don't really know why he bothers) and turning them into a Favored Soul and a Paladin, respectively. Which he plays exactly the same way. I was the last to TR, despite his insistence I TR my Favored Soul into another Favored Soul; I waited and finally broke down and TRed my Cleric that I hated playing, before gearing up the way I wanted to prior to a TR. Despite his insistence, I went Sorcerer instead of Cleric or FvS.

Things go smoothly for our TR/lowbie group, despite the lack of gear. So long as he is NOT in group. Friday, we got him to 8 on his FvS. Now this was a run which I, on my Sorcerer, umded a lesser restoration wand and about 40 pots all told to heal stat damage that the OTHER players were taking, because he "didn't have room for it". His primary contribution was running ahead, setting off several traps despite the efforts of the Rogue to stop him before, and bragging about his "dps". The real kicker is my Sorcerer, despite having TRed specifically to get away from playing a healing-type (I even went Human so I couldn't use repair spells), heals more than his FvS, via UMD. When he hit 8, everyone in the guild said he should get Restoration.

He adamantly refused, saying that he didn't need to, he had more important spells like Holy Smite (seriously this is the spell he picked out as "more important"), and wouldn't have room for any of the Restoration spells. He even went through and listed all the spells he was taking, as he's following some build plan he dug up. I think he called it an Evoker, but knowing him, it's got his own "spin" on it. I do know that he either pew pew's Searing Light, or charges in with a Holy Longsword (no matter the enemy, Holy weapons MUST work, right?). Not once has he cast Command, or Soundburst, or basically anything useful. He mostly just melees, and heals after combat is over.

Sure enough, when hitting Necro2 quests today, he had not gotten it, and I was stuck being the one to fix all stat damage again. It is bad enough that another guildy joked that I was still playing the Cleric in the group, even though I was no longer a Cleric! I just wonder what he'll say when he gets to a helpless state, and starts needing restores from the Sorcerer.

Thankfully, he played his paladin for awhile, so while our Cleric was very inexperienced at the role, he was still far and away better at it. We got him to 8, at which point I figured "alright, don't need to hit him with Resist Energy again, maybe he'll handle some of it, so the costs are spread out". Nope! I think he took Bull's Strength or something, because he pestered me for Resists as soon as we hit something after getting his level. I was fed up, and told him he'd best use a potion or swap at a shrine, and refused to cast it on him. I even tried to not hit him with Haste, Blur, and Rage, though another Guildy on her Bard hit the Blur, and Haste and Rage are hard to specifically exclude someone from.

We were in Delera's, last part, and he was hanging back in the main room with the levers, pulled each and killing things, while we cleared half the quest. Then argued that we were the ones wasting time playing with traps, even though that quest gives you conquest even if you don't do all the levers. I've soloed it a hundred times, and never hit more than one lever, and always get conquest.

The fun part was when we were running Shadow Guard. He got ****ed off because we went in on normal, which none of us had done it yet so we all got an extra 25%. I think I pulled close to 10k all told, due to a potion and a 2% shrine. So it was far from a wasted run, though I hate that quest due to the long, boring, slow swim parts. After he whined about wasting time and wasted effort, I finally told him he could leave if he didn't want to do it, and try soloing it.

He decided to sulk, left the skype call, and tried to zerg ahead. The funny part was when he ran in alone to deal with the invisible stalker optional. I was second in, and stood there and watched him until he was down to about 10% health before he finally tried to back out. He tried the same thing with the boss, and again, I let him get beat on before stepping in. Both times, I took aggro with an ice storm, pk'd the living, and nuked the dead. In the end, while he had the second-most kills, he also was first in every time, and I was generally coming in at the same time as the rest of our group, usually some time after he had gotten there. One guildy has troubles finding her way, so I stay back to help guide her.

In the end room, I was the only one near full health, while the Bard had drained her sp bar trying to heal, and his was still mostly full, by the time everything was dead. Even he had been knocked down a good chunk.

To top it off, he was whining about my sorc leveling too fast. I haven't had the time to actually play, due to work, so I thought she was leveling quite slowly. He's now insistent again that I TR my FvS or my Paladin into something else, so he won't be behind me in levels.

To put it shortly, he is so bad as a divine that a player who has nothing but melees, and hates playing casters, is leveling a Cleric. Another has decided to TR a third character into a divine, just because she's also "leveling too fast (with two TRs), and she's pretty good as a cleric herself. And the entire group wants me to level another FvS or Cleric, because they'd rather me take that role than him. And that includes him.

In Necro 1, Burning Heart (I think... the one where you split into two groups), he had a Bard, himself, and a Fighter, while me Sorc, another Bard, and a Rogue/Fighter took the other side. My side cleared out, and then I went ahead to his side, and helped clear the way to the shrine for them. Meanwhile, the Bard died because he is squishy, and tried to heal the FvS, and the Fighter almost died before she jumped into the water, and the FvS just kept spamming Searing Light.

I think he has a thing with people getting ahead of him. In kill counts, or in levels. He was annoyed that the guildy who now runs a Bard had capped 4 characters before he capped one. He runs ahead, relying on hirelings and/or store-bought mana pots to keep himself up while he clears as much as he can. Usually getting DA for us, though I'll admit I can easily do the same thing. He doesn't like splitting up I think, either. In quests where we can, he usually insists on sticking together.

I am sorely tempted to grind out 10 tonight, despite having worked all day, and working again tomorrow. And tell him I decided to not TR my Paladin, and just raid with her for a few months. :evil:

[Mithran]

I enter the Thread warily, avoiding mention of veteran names, expecting troll bait.

Frankly, it sounds as though your fellow guild member is trying to micromanage everyone to fit his play style. Do everyone involved a favor and level with him about strategy. If he doesn't want to carry the Restoration spell, that's fine, but he needs to carry scrolls for it. It's a very useful spell. By enabling him, you're just perpetuating everyone's misery.

[Marcus-Hawkeye]

Why are you even bother with this guy? Guildie or not he Seems to be producing a lot of negative impact to your play. Its a game. Play it for fun. If someone is obviously causing you such bad gaming why would you quest with them?

[varusso]

They quest with this person because they are in the same guild.
My question is why is that person still in the guild, if everyone hates questing with him?

[taurean430]

They quest with this person because they are in the same guild.
My question is why is that person still in the guild, if everyone hates questing with him?

If I'm not mistaken, the OP states that the problem player for them is the guild leader.

Instead of letting negativity fester, why not look at other guild options? Your post appears to suggest that the problem player has no interest in changing their playstyle. An impasse is just that. Or, perhaps choosing to pug or run with other friends might convince them to re-evaluate their effect on the other party members?

[rayworks]

And exactly why are you whinging about this guy? Read him the riot act and boot him from the guild. It seems to me that half the drama is because YOU let it happen.

ETA: and if he is the leader, leave. There are other guilds.

[jkm]

If I'm not mistaken, the OP states that the problem player for them is the guild leader.

Instead of letting negativity fester, why not look at other guild options? Your post appears to suggest that the problem player has no interest in changing their playstyle. An impasse is just that. Or, perhaps choosing to pug or run with other friends might convince them to re-evaluate their effect on the other party members?

Meh, I'm not understanding the restoration issue. I make very sure that we make at least 1 pass through tanglefoot for goggles before we hit the necro. 100 lesser resto pots is 10k plat and will last for a full TR (blasted RoE).

As for the situation, is that any different than our current run through? We have a 1st time FvS that has played fighters his entire DDO career. The reason you don't see posts like the above out of us is because (even with 2 barbarians in the party mind you) all of us do everything in our power to be self-sufficient and mitigate damage.

Now even better, think of last life when I was the cleric and read that story again

[azrael4h]

We like him, he just does not play DDO well at all, and at times his insistence of being right when he's wrong get's on my nerves. If he didn't take a more critical role as a divine, and just stuck with Paladin, then it wouldn't matter as much.

I enter the Thread warily, avoiding mention of veteran names, expecting troll bait.

Frankly, it sounds as though your fellow guild member is trying to micromanage everyone to fit his play style. Do everyone involved a favor and level with him about strategy. If he doesn't want to carry the Restoration spell, that's fine, but he needs to carry scrolls for it. It's a very useful spell. By enabling him, you're just perpetuating everyone's misery.

I agree; I keep both Restoration and Greater Restoration loaded on my melee build Favored Soul, as well as scrolls. But one of his quirks is that while he will chug store pots like there's no tomorrow, going through a half-dozen stacks in a month, he doesn't carry potions or scrolls or wands. The rest of us carry full stacks pretty much, but in the case of our lowbie group, only three of us are running TR's, the rest are leveling new alts, no twinking or sugar daddies. So they only have small amounts of any given potion, and in some of the Necro quests, it seems like every time you turn around there's more stat damage.

While I may be enabling him, it's not him who takes most of the stat damage; he has a full WIS build, with I think he said 14 STR. Going S&B on top of that, even at this level his ability to draw aggro stems from getting there first. Both rogues, one of the Bards, and of course myself and the regular melee will take aggro as soon as they show up. It's the ones who take aggro who need the restorations, and I'm still often the only one capable of dealing with it.

If I stopped handing out Restorations, others would suffer. Not him. And we've already attempted to convince him to carry the spell, and I've repeatedly shown him how effective scrolls are. But when you just chug a pot, scrolls don't really add much I guess, so he doesn't use them.

Unfortunately, trying to talk strategy with him hasn't worked. After a year and a half, I still can't get him to understand how to kite through a Blade Barrier. Despite having capped two divines myself, and him seeing me do it repeatedly.

They quest with this person because they are in the same guild.
My question is why is that person still in the guild, if everyone hates questing with him?

We're talking about a static group which has been around for longer than DDO has. DDO just happens to be the current game of choice. The problem comes when switching from MP sessions of NWN to DDO. He isn't the only one who hasn't really adjusted to the differences. He's just the most set into his ways, and doesn't build completely squishy characters who die in 1 hit. The other one who hasn't adjusted well has characters that manage that quite well.

I'm also just blowing off steam here, coming off a quest which should be really easy to run, but was a chore due to the lack of an effective divine. Part of which stems from the expectations of things getting really difficult, both due to not having an effective divine, or enough heavy melees. We only have his Paladin, and one other's Fighter. He'll likely be going FvS at least half the time, and she has a Monk she's loving as well. It's enough that I've been building Fighter and Barbarians in the build planner, trying to find one I like.

[SynnMG]

Is his name Leeroy Jenkins?
(Joking of course)

[azrael4h]

If I'm not mistaken, the OP states that the problem player for them is the guild leader.

Instead of letting negativity fester, why not look at other guild options? Your post appears to suggest that the problem player has no interest in changing their playstyle. An impasse is just that. Or, perhaps choosing to pug or run with other friends might convince them to re-evaluate their effect on the other party members?

We actually don't have a guild leader of sorts. There's the guy who bought the charter, but he lets who ever lead, and just goes with it. On days, that falls to me, on others, it's someone else. It's less a guild and more a group of people who game together every Friday, and sometimes during the week.

Most of the people I know well through DDO only know me on my Favored Soul, though some actually read my bio and have sent tells to my Sorc asking if I'll come heal a Shroud or VoD or whatever, thinking she's still a Cleric. Even so, I don't really want to take a level 9 into a group with level 18+ characters. I don't particularly want to pug on my Sorc yet, since I've only ran her for a couple weeks, and haven't seriously ran an arcane prior. Until I'm confident in my ability to run as an arcane, I'll hold off of it.

Most weeks there isn't a problem, it's just that this weekend has seen some of the worst odd ball screwups, and excessive resource usage beyond that I ever experienced before. I burned through more cure serious, cure light, and lesser restore pots in the last two days on my Sorc than in the last month prior across all three of my main characters.

[/quote=jkm]Meh, I'm not understanding the restoration issue. I make very sure that we make at least 1 pass through tanglefoot for goggles before we hit the necro. 100 lesser resto pots is 10k plat and will last for a full TR (blasted RoE). [/quote]

Are they even that much? Then again, last time I bought them I could still use my haggle item. Nonetheless, my full stack isn't coming near to lasting a full TR.

Like I said, I'm just ranting, blowing off steam. The alternative is getting mad, and I have a car to paint tomorrow. Gotta be in the right frame of mind for that.

[Snormal]

Didn't read most of it (boring without names, really - and we all know the policy on that). Just wanted to comment that holy smite is the only thing that makes early FvS worth playing, we get so very few toys to play with. The group I run with is very competent as well, so I don't even get to heal very much. HOLY SMITE 4EVA!! (I took it at level 8 too)

[taurean430]

Meh, I'm not understanding the restoration issue. I make very sure that we make at least 1 pass through tanglefoot for goggles before we hit the necro. 100 lesser resto pots is 10k plat and will last for a full TR (blasted RoE).

As for the situation, is that any different than our current run through? We have a 1st time FvS that has played fighters his entire DDO career. The reason you don't see posts like the above out of us is because (even with 2 barbarians in the party mind you) all of us do everything in our power to be self-sufficient and mitigate damage.

Now even better, think of last life when I was the cleric and read that story again

I'm thinking it's different mainly due to the fact that despite our self sufficiency, we look out of each other out of consideration. Like this barb life I'm doing, we all know I dislike being dependent. I carry 3-400 cure pots at all times, and when that isn't helping who jumps in to save my metal keister? You and the others do that to help me out, just the same as I would for any of you. We are all independently strong toons working together. That's what seems to be lacking in what I read in the OP.

Totally agree on the pots though. Everyone should have them, even my healing toons carry a stack. Now cure blindness pots on the other hand...

[Delt]

To put it shortly

Liar.

[junkmail90210]

solution 1 mean
Grease/Sleet storm everytime he zergs or melees :-)

solution 2 passive aggressive
It sounds like you were a good cleric and he was is a bad healer. Now of course you are not a cleric so stop! Embrace your roll, kill kill kill. Steal his kills w instadeath spells, nothing ****es a melee more, than working down the HP to one more hit when FOD!!! Circle of Death, Charm!

Sol 3 Avoidance
Some healers just suck, when pug I only expect healing after fights and am prepared for none. Turn your efforts to the rest of your guild, get them more self sufficient. The dynamic has changed, adjust.

4. probably do this one first
talk to him, intervention style w whole guild.

5.
Kick him from group

[Vellrad]

Wait what?!?!?!

Ah, Khyber, ok, I understand now.

[Vyrn]

So er.. is this just a rant thread? I kind of missed the 'point of the thread' in the rant :/. Also, really? Tell him hes horrible and just be blunt about it. They usually start being better players, or start grouping with you less which is a good thing.

[~herbstlich]

tell ppl to use lesser restore pots. they are easy. and it's good practice to have pots all the time...

[Kominalito]

i would LOVE to know who this is.

also, i would troll this dude so hard. every run tell him that the group will do what he wants, and the second he's in, let him die, and carry his stone to some remote spot, and leave it there. he still gets the xp, but none of the loot. while this is encouraging piking, you wait till the end of the run, just before the boss -> recall. leave him in there dead, no xp, no loot.

then you all have a laugh, apologize, tell him that you wont do it again. then go back in a few minutes later, wait till he dies, and repeat.

there is nothing worse than a bad player that gets free levelling from people that dont have the cahones to put them in their place. get PRO-ACTIVE and troll this piker.

[ayspam]

This reminds me of some crappy pugs... You sound competent enough to solo stuff, why not do that and spare yourself from these things?

[Kalari]

I read your post op and I hope this person is a friend of yours if not I do not understand why you put up with them. Being in a guild normally means camaraderie but if someone is being that demanding and selfish they would find themselves playing alone more then with anyone else.

I've dealt with players learning divines and having to back up heal on other characters due to it, sure it gets frustrating but they are new and learning so I cant get too upset. But if they had the nerve to have the attitude of the person you've told us about there is no way. A. I wouldnt encourage bad play style. B. My fun is not going to be loss just to not hurt someones feelings. I pay to play this game so if im not having fun I just don't run with those individuals again always been this way and it makes ddo tolerable for me.

I hope you find a way to enjoy the game and to assert yourself with this drain on your patience and fun because not speaking up will end up making a bad situation worst.