Crowd control advice monster line up

[Firesmall_at]

Any lists on what spell works good on what would be great.

Command. Hold person. Sound burst for stun... anything that stops them and how successful. Bossess too. Best. Worse. Situational. Other links.

Thx

[hityawithastick]

Bard spells? Arcane spells? Ranger spells? Divine spells? All of them? I NEED MOAR SPECIFICS

[ProdigalGuru]

DDO Wiki is your friend.

[Firesmall_at]

For cleric. Any info to hold stun stop the enemy. To hit critical.

[AZgreentea]

This may not be perfect, but here it goes:

You need to pay attention to the save type.

Will based saves are good against Melee mobs, but they suck against mobs that function as clerics (clerics have high will saves due to their wis scores). For example, Earth Elementals are very vulnerable to command and hypno due to a low wis score. So are melee types like Hobgoblin Guards.

Dex based saves are good against caster type mobs, since most casters ignore Dex. A Kobold Shaman would be more likely to take a hit from Niacs Cold Ray Ray than a Bugbear Rogue (rogues have high dex).

Some spells have dual saves. For example, Web has a reflex save to avoid getting stuck, and a str save to break free. A mob like a bugbear rogue might not get stuck at all, a Kobold fighter might get stuck, but break free quickly, but a Kobold Shaman would probably get stuck for a long time, because they have low saves in both Dex and Str.

If you are having trouble landing an available spell on a mob, try a spell that lowers that save (hit them with a Hypno to lower their will save by -3 even if it fails, then hit them with it again, for example). You can also try a spell that has no save, such as Scorching Ray. Typically no save spells do less damage than save spells (without any kind of amplification), but land more reliably.

Also important is to increase your spell pen when you can, and to not neglect your casting stat. The casting stat for Clerics is Wis, Wizards is Int, and Sorcs is Cha.

[Tyrande]

For cleric. Any info to hold stun stop the enemy. To hit critical.

For cleric? Practically "nothing" to auto-critical hit.

Hold Person was nerfed to do +50% additional damage instead of auto-crit.

Sound Burst was nerfed for stuns to do +50% addtional damage instead of auto-crit.

Symbol of Stunning: same as above.

Cometfall, Command/ Greater Command: Trip crowd control the target, but no auto-crit.

Symbol of Persuasion: charms the monster(s) for crowd control, but no auto-crit on the targets that the charmed monster(s) attacks.

Also, Order Wrath will daze non-lawful targets, and can only effective when cast by a lawful cleric.
But no auto-crit on the targets.

If you consider instant death spells a form of stopping/crowd control; then add Slay Living, Destruction, Implosion and their debuff target saves spells to the list: Symbol of Death, Energy Drain, Symbol of Pain, Bestow Curse to this list.

[HallowedOne]

Generally:

Melee types: WILL and REFLEX
Arcanes: FORTITUDE and REFLEX
Clerical: REFLEX
Archers: WILL and, I think, FORTITUDE

[bigolbear]

we need to know what class you are so we can help you. also a break down of your stats, gear and feats would be handy.

some general policies:
ddo has 3 types of saves, fortitude, reflex and will.

diferent enemies will exhibit diferent good or bad saves, this is a combination of race and class(if any) for monsters.

you will almost certainly have crowd controll spells that target will saves (generaly enchantments), kill spells that target fortitude saves (generaly necromancy) and damage based spells target reflex saves (generaly evocation or conjuratioon)- not always tho.


Spell casting 101 - pick the targets weak save. Each of your spells will say what save is required if any.
enemy wizards/sorcerers have high will saves and low reflex and fort - use damage or instakills.
enemy fighters ahve high fort but poor will and reflex but lots of hit points - use crowd control spells.
enemy rogues have very high reflex and evasion but low will and fort saves - use instakill or crowd control or no save damage.
enemy rangers, scouts or hunters have good fort and reflex but low will - use crowd controll spells.
enemy shamans have good will saves medium fort saves but poor reflex - use damage or instakill
enemy monks have great saves on all three -send in the meles, or use no save spells.

some more vague generalisataions:
humans get no modifier
elves and halflings have beter reflexes
dwarfs and warforge have better fort
drow have spell resistance (see below)

kobolds have good reflex saves.
trogs have good fort saves.
oozes have surprisingly good fort saves but VERY poor reflexes
trolls agres and giants all have good fort saves
noble giants (frost, mountain and fire) seem to have good will saves.
outsiders (demons devils elementals etc) have great saves on every thing - as yet another general rule if they look big and chunky target will or reflex, if they look lithe and quick target fort, eg target will on earth eles target will, on fire eles target fort.
aberations have good saves but due to often having low con fort save is the best to target.
constructs and undead have terible fort saves - but are imune to many spells that target fortitude.
mindless undead (most low lvl zombies and skelies) have terrible will saves.
animals have ok saves at every thing.
vermin have ok saves at every thing.
incorporeal undead have great reflexes usualy.

so combining the enemies class and race you can see what would be a good save to target.
for example a a warforge scout as may be encountered in von4 will have a very good fort save, a good reflex save and a poor will save - so use crowd control on him.

SPELL RES:
some enemies exhibit spell resistance, this can be overcome by taking feats and using items, alternativey almost all damage based spells do not check against spell resistance so go for damage on these things if you are having trouble over coming spell res.

These are all generalisations for more info - pop your class and build in here and im sure we can help more.

[bigolbear]

For cleric. Any info to hold stun stop the enemy. To hit critical.

the spells you are looking for to full fill what you want here is:

lvl 1 command
lvl 2 sound burst, hold person
lvl 4 holy smite, chaos hammer, orders wrath.
lvl 5 greater commmand, summon monster 5 earth elemental.
lvl 6 cometfall
lvl 7 summon monster 7 greater earth elemental.
lvl 8 symbol of stunning (this may be lvl 7 not too sure)
sumon monster 8 - air elemental.
lvl 9 energ drain (to assist in landing spells on hard targets)

you wont get auto crit any more - that stopped because a lot of content was made trivial by mass holds.
you will get a 50% damage bonus on a held monster (lvl 2 hold monster spell and the earth elementals grab effect)
The other spells simply knock people over or pin them to the floor so they cant fight back.

[Sarisa]

For cleric. Any info to hold stun stop the enemy. To hit critical.

Unfortunately, update 9 removed automatic critical hits on a held or stunned mob. You get a boost in damage (including spell damage), but it won't trigger weapon's on-critical effects.

A divine caster's best CC tends to be the following spells (not counting pure damage spells or instant-kill):

Hold Person - Humanoids - Human, elf, dwarf, halfling, and a few others. Will save based, so it works well on "brutes" and rogue type opponents. It tends to not work that well on caster and some archer type mobs. Since you only get the single target "person" variant, it's of limited use. Where it's useful, it's the best single target CC you will have. Mobs that cast Freedom of Movement (some ranger types) become immune. Red and purple names are also immune.

Command, and later on Greater Command - Tell a mob to sit down and get beat on. It's a will save based effect, so it works best on brutes. Coincidentally, you'll face a lot of large, densely packed groups of brutish giants in the mid levels. Greater Command is one of your best CC spells between level 9 and 16 or 17. Command is excellent for dealing with single ogres and trolls at low levels. Only normal and orange names are affected, red and purple are immune.

Soundburst - Hit your target and the area surrounding it for a small amount of damage, and anything hit must make a fortitude save or become dazed. Dazed mobs don't fight back, but you also don't get a damage boost when fighting them. This is a low level staple, and is especially good for temporarily disabling casters. Casters at all levels are the most dangerous opponents you will have to deal with. Red names are immune to the daze.

Blindness - Blind a single target if they fail their fortitude save. Not terribly useful, though it can be situationally decent. Red names are immune.

Alignment spells (Order's Wrath, Chaos Hammer, Unholy Blight, Holy Smite) - Does AoE damage and an effect to targets of the opposite alignment; and just half damage to neutral targets. Will save based. These have limited use, with Order's Wrath being probably the best (dazes chaotic targets like trolls).

Symbol of Pain - Gives any mobs entering the symbol area a -4 penalty to attack rolls, damage, and saves. Fort save based. It's in a tight spell level, so it's not used that often. It is still a very nice spell, just sometimes difficult to work with due to the symbol nature.

Cometfall - While primarily seen as a damage spell, it's also capable of knocking mobs down. It's a reflex based spell, so evasive mobs will often take no damage and avoid being knocked down. Does damage but no knockdown to red names.

Symbol of Persuasion - A divine caster's only charm spell. This spell used to be a fixed duration, with no recurring save allowing a mob to free before the time was up, but that was considered too strong. It is now not usually worth using. In addition, divines do not have the 'Dismiss Charm' feat, so you will have to wait for a mob to break on its own. Will save based, and logically will not affect red names.

Symbol of Fear - Please do not use this unless you are solo'ing. Fear'ed mobs cause more trouble than they are worth in party situations.

Symbol of Weakness - Victims who fail their fort save gets hit for significant strength damage. This used to work on red names, but may not affect them as much after update 9.

Symbol of Stunning - Victims who fail their fort saves are dazed. I don't know if it was changed to a stun in update 9 or not; prior to update 9 it was a daze with no additional damage. Situationally useful.

Holy Aura - Buff anyone around you and cause evil mobs around you to become blind. This can be an incredible damage reduction spell in large mobs of devils.

Summon Monster 8 - The Air Elemental. Knocks monsters down and does little damage. Very strong, but not totally overpowered as it has some "friendly fire" effects (can slow allies, knock allied halflings down, and blow away ally cast firewalls, clouds, and dancing balls).