Explorer Benefit

[Musouka]

Once again, you should not have to go to a third party source for something that is already in-game and just needs to be tweaked to make it better.

Ok, then don't go to the wiki. Finish the explorer once, take a screenshot of the map and print it out. That's not going to a third party.

In pen and paper, usually you have one person keep track of where you've been, kind of drawing out a rough map. Printing out a screenshot would practically be the same thing for this case.

[varusso]

Ok, then don't go to the wiki. Finish the explorer once, take a screenshot of the map and print it out. That's not going to a third party.

In pen and paper, usually you have one person keep track of where you've been, kind of drawing out a rough map. Printing out a screenshot would practically be the same thing for this case.

And also again, I already have maps saved to my HD that I make notations on. Its still going outside of the game for a resource; in this case, the third party is you, not an anonymous webpage or app.

The in-game map is the equivalent of drawing a map in PnP. It just needs a few tweaks to give it the actual functionality of a hand-drawn map. There is honestly no reason NOT to allow players to 'pin' their own maps in-game.

EDIT: Sorry folks I just realized I am referencing some posts that arent in THIS thread. I am actually in 2 different 'map' threads at the moment, and some of the talking points I am referencing are actually in the OTHER thread:

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=320581

[Musouka]

And also again, I already have maps saved to my HD that I make notations on. Its still going outside of the game for a resource; in this case, the third party is you, not an anonymous webpage or app.

The in-game map is the equivalent of drawing a map in PnP. It just needs a few tweaks to give it the actual functionality of a hand-drawn map. There is honestly no reason NOT to allow players to 'pin' their own maps in-game.

Wouldn't 'you' be a second party? As without 'you,' the game does not exist. If one chooses to remain in the role of ignorance and not use every available asset one has, then it is a choice and not something that needs to be fixed. Sorry for actually not accepting the fact that you want to dumb down the players more. I figured it was a good part of the game to inspire people to actually use their brains and remember something. Next you're going to ask for every quest map to be wide open, as long as you have played it once, and mapped it out. Talk about ruining the experience.

[Dragaer]

There is honestly no reason NOT to allow players to 'pin' their own maps in-game.

There may be no reason to not allow this - but I think they have more important things to work on/fix. This is really not an issue to complain about.

[varusso]

Wouldn't 'you' be a second party? As without 'you,' the game does not exist. If one chooses to remain in the role of ignorance and not use every available asset one has, then it is a choice and not something that needs to be fixed. Sorry for actually not accepting the fact that you want to dumb down the players more. I figured it was a good part of the game to inspire people to actually use their brains and remember something. Next you're going to ask for every quest map to be wide open, as long as you have played it once, and mapped it out. Talk about ruining the experience.

No. DDO is the first party, the client on your comp is the second party. Anything used to augment or change the interaction is a third party. It sounds silly, but its the basics of the relationship. If you write an app or a webpage that is somehow used to change the experience (IE a wiki or a char gen app), that resource becomes third party, even though you wrote it. Using notes/maps etc from your comp that arent actually a part of the game-client interaction is the same basic premise, the only real difference being the level of technical expertise needed to make it work.

Asking for a map to have better functionality is not dumbing down anyone or anything. Its a request to consolidate a player's efforts and to make an existing aspect of the game function better than it does currently. I would like to NOT have to alt-tab out of the game whenever I want/need to reference my map notes, since the map is already right there in the game. There is no reason a player should have to memorize every single dot on the map; its not reasonable or practical, At some point, you will have to refer to some notes. No reason why those notes shouldnt be right there in the game. Since you would have to uncover the point in order to pin it, you have already done the legwork. Absolutely no reason why you should not be allowed to make a foot note about it for the next time you come through, whether on the same toon or a different one, YOU made the effort already.

[varusso]

There may be no reason to not allow this - but I think they have more important things to work on/fix. This is really not an issue to complain about.

"Devs have to put effort into it' is never a good excuse. Devs have to put effort into ANY change in the game, and they have different teams for different aspects. Working on additional map functionality doesnt prevent them from fixing bugs; its a different team. It doesnt prevent them from playtesting new content or designing new dungeons. And a simple functionality change like this would benefit any new content they add.

[Bargol]

When in game click on the myddo link, then user CP, you can add links to open outside web addresses directly in game. Go to ddowiki.com and link the maps for the areas you want. So instead of using the greyed out / blacked out map, use the clear labeled ddowiki maps. Problem solved and requires no developer time.

[varusso]

When in game click on the myddo link, then user CP, you can add links to open outside web addresses directly in game. Go to ddowiki.com and link the maps for the areas you want. So instead of using the greyed out / blacked out map, use the clear labeled ddowiki maps. Problem solved and requires no developer time.

The web-browser interface also blocks out 75% of the screen and must be called-up/dismissed each time. Not to mention it loads HORRIBLY slow compared to a direct web-browse out of game. The active cursor also switches out of the playfield and into the browser. Much simpler and effective to have a map that you fill in yourself and points of interest you can read by mousing over them -- rather like the map icons you can mouse over and read currently.

And even though you are using the in-game browser to surf to your resources, they are still third party resources.

[Musouka]

Screenshot, upload image to your myDDO, then click myDDO and you stay within DDO limits.

All I see here is, 'I want I want I want,' but no room for alternatives.

So what if they are third party?

I will never agree to this suggestion, as I do not need to, and will strongly oppose it.

[varusso]

I have also already explained why using the in-game browser is not a feasible solution. You can stamp your feet and throw a tantrum over it all you want. Doesnt change the fact that improvements to the map interface would be a positive change.

[Hafeal]

I will state that I support this idea and it is FAR from the first time it has been brought up.

Varusso, welcome to the world of people arguing for arguing's sake.

Absolutely, for game convenience, efficiency and enjoyment, the maps for explorer should be upgraded in game through the existing map interface.

[varusso]

Varusso, welcome to the world of people arguing for arguing's sake.

*shrug* I'm used to it, been married for some time now

[donfilibuster]

Agree there's no point in having the map reset after each visit.
Though not sure cartography is a skill mercenary heroes carry, let alone in X'endrik.

In PnP you had to take knowledge:geography or some other knowledge skill as appropiate.
In 2e there was also 'direction sense' as a non-weapon proficiency.

So far i manually added the links to the maps in ddowiki to the links bar in myddo to use in the in-game browser.

[Talias006]

Absolutely no reason why you should not be allowed to make a foot note about it for the next time you come through, whether on the same toon or a different one, YOU made the effort already.

Snipped. I would agree to having the FoW replacing the uncharted blackness from a character that put in the effort to uncover focal points (either rare mobs or explorers) would be a good idea, as the idea is that the CHARACTER has been there to see those points of interest. Imho it would be a good fit for the people that nitpick on things being "dumbed down" and for the crowd that wants increased functionality from their maps. Discussion?

[rrtemplin]

I am perfectly fine with how this works currently. I run most of them enough to know them. Put me in a quest and i am lost. Put me in a Slayer area, i can lead around most of them with out thinking about it (until you ask me where the quest are in that zone). Its just like a quest. You learn it. Its working fine.

So please don't try to fix slayer areas, unless your going to add favor rewards for each level of kills, leave the areas alone.

[KillEveryone]

I would also like to see map improvements.

I've been in orchard plenty of times to know the area and have a path for all rares when I'm farming taps but I still use the map and would like to make notes.

I know the desert well and can get to the quests but I still use the map and would like to make notes.

I know the Vale and where the rares are but I still use the map and would like to make notes.

I'd like to see map improvements so that when I'm in Coal Chamber, if I get turned around, I can look at the map and know where I'm at. As it is, if I'm above or below where I need to be, I don't really know until I either climb all the way to the top or just drop all the way down and start the climb over.

There are several quests where the paths over lap because you are above or below them and I'd like the map to reflect this instead of just looking like I'm at a 4 way intersection.

I already have a spiral notebook for stuff, I don't need to have some loose papers that don't fit in that notebook.

I've tried to print those maps out. It is way to small. I've tried to have a few printer shops print them out but they are worried about copy write so they don't want to print them out.

Even if I can't make notes, I'd still like to get rid of the black after I've been in that area. I have no problems with fog of war, it is the black part that I don't like to see.

Now another way to approach this would be to think about creating a new reward for in game FAVOR. Explorers Guild Favor (semi random name). It could apply to character or to account on a server. Once you achieve that level of reward, Native Guides appear right inside the Zone entrance, and will only engage in dialog if your favor has met the requirement. They can port you directly to the spot outside any dungeon/quest entrance in that zone. (The same spot you appear in if you step out the quest entrance.)

It could be a single total favor benchmark (3000 for example) or pegged to areas and higher favor totals, or to having maxed out all of the categories in the zone. All Explorers, all Rares and topped off on Kills. You know the zone, perhaps too well. I know many times out in the vale, with characters who had topped it all off, (and before renown existed) many times the dash to the quest was run to avoid any delays or melee and loss of HP/SP along the way. The few trogs/spiders/bezhikra were all just considered nuisances along the run. Much like the person in GH who ports you nearer the three top quests, this could be a nice feature to work for and would really be more appealing as an account award, much like 32 point builds, etc.

I also like this idea.