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  1. #1
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    Default Lost-Need Guidance

    (final solution: )
    For those who are interested...
    After doing 20-30 builds a day, trying every combo I could think of, or find, a few things became VERY apparent:
    1) I love playing a Rogue, not something that has Rogue skills, but a ROGUE!
    2) The main problems my old level 6 Rogue had, besides eating cure pots like mad, were low damage, low hit points, and to few good feats.

    To that end, I created:
    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.8.2
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Slysen Dice
    Level 4 True Neutral Drow Female
    (2 Fighter \ 2 Rogue) 
    Hit Points: 91
    Spell Points: 0 
    BAB: 3\3
    Fortitude: 7
    Reflex: 6
    Will: 3
    
                      Starting         Feat/Enhance/Equip
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (28 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 4)
    Strength             15                    18
    Dexterity            15                    17
    Constitution         14                    15
    Intelligence         13                    14
    Wisdom               10                    12
    Charisma             10                    10
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills         Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)             (Level 4)
    Balance               7                     7
    Bluff                 0                     0
    Concentration         2                     2
    Diplomacy             0                     0
    Disable Device        3                     10
    Haggle                0                     10
    Heal                  0                     1
    Hide                  7                     7
    Intimidate            0                     0
    Jump                  5                     5
    Listen                7                     7
    Move Silently         7                     7
    Open Lock             7                     10
    Perform               n/a                   n/a
    Repair                2                     2
    Search                8                     8
    Spot                  7                     10
    Swim                  3                     4
    Tumble                4                     5
    Use Magic Device      4                     7
    Level 1 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Toughness
    Level 2 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Two Handed Fighting
    Level 3 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Oversized Two Handed Fighting
    Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
    Level 4 (Rogue)
    Enhancement: Elven Dexterity I
    Enhancement: Fighter Item Defense I
    Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
    Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
    Enhancement: Rogue Dexterity I
    Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
    I have that +3 Con item I'll use at level 5, and may eat a +1 Dex tome to boost that attribute, and it's related skills.
    Overall, her hit points are much higher than my old level six's were, she hits a constant 30 +/- 5, compared to the low 20's before, and her UMD has her using an Eternal Cure Light Wounds wand fairly regularly.
    Combined with the 100+ cure pots I got from all of the builds I tried, she's good to go, for now.

    As to her future...
    She will continue on as a Rogue, ending at Rogue 18 / Fighter 2.
    She's going to work on getting the Assassin Prestige line.
    She's currently wielding duel long swords. I had planned on taking the Khopesh feat at level 6, but have been informed (see end of page two, this thread) that taking the Drow Weapon Damage & Attack enhancements I & II will increase Rapier damage to that of the Khopeshes, so that is the route I plan on going.

    I might add:
    It's helpful to remember that potions only need to keep you alive, not at max hp.
    (Scrolls and wands can top you off between encounters.)
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    (Original post: )
    Thanks to everyone for looking!

    I've been playing DDO off & on for almost two years now, and have tried most of the paths, classes, and races. (I don't have Favored Soul, or Half-Orc.)
    As a fan of D&D since 1984, I've played PnP, and most of the D&D computer games, but DDO, and it's v3.5 rules are hard to get used to after playing as I have in the past. (Which is also why I've played DDO off & on.)

    So, far, in DDO, I've found that I enjoy having the skills of a Rogue, the spells of a Cleric, and playing like a Barbarian. After I achieved Veteran Status, I deleted my old characters, and began toying with new builds. The Warpriest of Siberys by tihocan is fun to play, but lacks the Rogue skills I enjoy having.

    After several wild & weird builds, I came up with this:

    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.8.2
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Ifala Ju'el
    Level 4 Chaotic Good Drow Female
    (2 Fighter \ 1 Rogue \ 1 Cleric) 
    Hit Points: 89
    Spell Points: 140 
    BAB: 2\2
    Fortitude: 8
    Reflex: 7
    Will: 5
    
                      Starting        Feat/Enhance/Equip
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (28 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 4)
    Strength             15                    18
    Dexterity            15                    18
    Constitution         12                    13
    Intelligence         16                    16
    Wisdom               11                    13
    Charisma             10                    10
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills         Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 4)
    Balance               6                     8
    Bluff                 0                     0
    Concentration         1                     1
    Diplomacy             0                     0
    Disable Device        7                    11
    Haggle                0                     0
    Heal                  0                     1
    Hide                  6                     8
    Intimidate            0                     0
    Jump                  6                     10
    Listen                4                     7
    Move Silently         6                     8
    Open Lock             6                    12
    Perform               n/a                   n/a
    Repair                3                     3
    Search                7                    12
    Spot                  4                     7
    Swim                  2                     4
    Tumble                6                     9
    Use Magic Device      4                     4
    Level 1 (Rogue)
    Feat: (Selected) Toughness
    Enhancement: Improved Disable Device I
    Enhancement: Improved Open Lock I
    Enhancement: Rogue Improved Trap Sense I
    Level 2 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Two Handed Fighting
    Enhancement: Fighter Armored Agility I
    Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
    Enhancement: Fighter Item Defense I
    Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
    Level 3 (Cleric)
    Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
    Enhancement: Elven Dexterity I
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
    Level 4 (Fighter)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
    Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
    The reason for the order of the classes, and their selection, was primarily to get the feats A.S.A.P., to get the hit points as high as I could (and meet my other criteria,) to get the proficiencies I needed to wield a Great Sword, and to wear Full Plate armor if I needed to.

    When I created the character, the original plan was to continue leveling as a Rogue, but now I'm wondering if I should head down the Warpriest path? or would a fighter path be better?

    I currently have a +3 con item, that I can't use until level 5, and if necessary, I can purchase some +1 tomes 'til I can get to level 7/8, and I should be able to find a +2/3 wis item if need be.

    Any suggestions would be appreciated.
    And... If there's a build that has the skills of a Rogue, the spells of a Cleric, and plays like a Barbarian, PLEASE let me know.
    Again, Thanks for stopping by.
    Last edited by TrinaLeFleur; 06-05-2011 at 12:31 PM.

  2. #2
    Community Member Ngha's Avatar
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    1 more rogue level, rest cleric otherwise your spells will be stuck in failmate.

  3. #3
    Community Member Esserbe's Avatar
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    Will miss out on level 9 spells with less than 17 levels of Cleric. One level of Cleric for healing will be useless by the time you hit level 8 or so, and progression as a Rogue will allow you to use wands and scrolls with Use Magic Device for far, far greater results than your limited casts of Cure Light Wounds.

    And... If there's a build that has the skills of a Rogue, the spells of a Cleric, and plays like a Barbarian, PLEASE let me know.
    Not sure if there's one with all, but the Soul Survivor WF 20 Favored Soul build has the spells of a Cleric and plays like a Barbarian.

  4. #4
    The Hatchery Rapthorn's Avatar
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    I can understand your need for having all of those criteria but I think you may be going about it the wrong way...

    With that being said, for this particular build I would say that you have too much int and dex, and not enough wisdom and con. Of course that statement more depends on if you level more in cleric or not... in either case I would suggest dropping int some and raising con some.

    Another point I will make is whenever you are making a multiclass that involves rogue, you should always take rogue at level one. You end up with more skill points that way.

    Personally I think that if you continue with this build you will find it to get lackluster in all regards the harder the content becomes. And if you leave the cleric level at one, you will find that the "nice" cleric spells won't work as well the higher level you become.

    If you wish to make this mix work, I would advise this. 2 rogue / 1 fighter / 17 cleric. Put most of your stat points into str, con, and wis with a touch into int. Take level 1 as rogue for the skill points, 2 as fighter, take the second rogue level whenever your playstyle makes it work, the rest cleric. As for playing it like a barbarian? I play all my classes like a barbarian lol.

    Of course, I am not one of the forum people that makes / tries a lot of builds so my advise is certainly lacking in regards to the fine details... Hopefully one of those fine people will come by soon to help you more
    Para

    Proud Co-Leader of <o>

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Esserbe View Post
    Will miss out on level 9 spells with less than 17 levels of Cleric. One level of Cleric for healing will be useless by the time you hit level 8 or so, and progression as a Rogue will allow you to use wands and scrolls with Use Magic Device for far, far greater results than your limited casts of Cure Light Wounds.
    That's basically what I had thought, which is why I was considering taking cleric the rest of the way.
    Quote Originally Posted by Esserbe View Post
    Not sure if there's one with all, but the Soul Survivor WF 20 Favored Soul build has the spells of a Cleric and plays like a Barbarian.
    Unfortunately, I don't have Favored Soul, yet. I might look into that Soul Survior build to see if it's worth a try.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rapthorn View Post
    Another point I will make is whenever you are making a multiclass that involves rogue, you should always take rogue at level one. You end up with more skill points that way.
    My thoughts, exactly!
    Quote Originally Posted by Rapthorn View Post
    Personally I think that if you continue with this build you will find it to get lackluster in all regards the harder the content becomes. And if you leave the cleric level at one, you will find that the "nice" cleric spells won't work as well the higher level you become.
    Which is why I'm asking for help.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rapthorn View Post
    I play all my classes like a barbarian lol.
    (So do I!)
    Thanks!
    Last edited by TrinaLeFleur; 05-26-2011 at 09:31 PM.

  6. #6
    Community Member PNellesen's Avatar
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    You didn't say if you're willing to start over to change your stats, but if you were, I'd drop DEX by at least 2 and put into CON, and drop INT by 4 and put into WIS. It looks like you plan to be more melee based, so I'd put all level-ups into STR.

    Good luck! Looks like it could be a pretty interesting solo-build (I have a feeling you'll be getting some grief from groups who expect anyone with a Cleric icon to be a healbot )
    Quote Originally Posted by Ertay View Post
    While they were at it though, the devs decided to go on an incredible nerfhammer rampage and left nothing in their wake standing...

  7. #7
    The Hatchery Rapthorn's Avatar
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    My bad, I didn't see that you took rogue at level one... I must have rolled a 1 on reading comprehension there.




    Quote Originally Posted by PNellesen View Post
    Good luck! Looks like it could be a pretty interesting solo-build (I have a feeling you'll be getting some grief from groups who expect anyone with a Cleric icon to be a healbot )

    I have to totally agree with this comment too... it is a sad thing that the majority of players think that the cleric icon means healer only.
    It does look like a very interesting solo / part of a duo build. This has got me thinking about how I'm going to do the cleric life as my completionist which is one of those classes that has never really suited me.

    Good luck, and let me know how it works out
    Para

    Proud Co-Leader of <o>

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by PNellesen View Post
    You didn't say if you're willing to start over to change your stats, but if you were, I'd drop DEX by at least 2 and put into CON, and drop INT by 4 and put into WIS. It looks like you plan to be more melee based, so I'd put all level-ups into STR.

    Good luck! Looks like it could be a pretty interesting solo-build (I have a feeling you'll be getting some grief from groups who expect anyone with a Cleric icon to be a healbot )
    I'm always willing to start over, and over, and over. 'Till I find something I thoroughly enjoy playing, without reservation!
    Quote Originally Posted by Rapthorn View Post
    My bad, I didn't see that you took rogue at level one... I must have rolled a 1 on reading comprehension there.
    I don't always read the builds very closely either, so not a problem.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rapthorn View Post
    I have to totally agree with this comment too... it is a sad thing that the majority of players think that the cleric icon means healer only.
    It does look like a very interesting solo / part of a duo build. This has got me thinking about how I'm going to do the cleric life as my completionist which is one of those classes that has never really suited me.
    Never been much of the healer type myself, either, but with 17 levels of Cleric, I can swap spells out if need be, to meet party needs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rapthorn View Post
    Good luck, and let me know how it works out
    If I don't get sidetracked with another build, and I remember, I will.

    Edit:
    My +3 con item is usable at level 5, which I should have tomorrow, and I found a +4 wisdom item in the AH, not usable 'til level 7, but at level 5 I'll be able to get cleric wisdom 1 enhancement which should hold me over 'til level 7, at which time I'll get some +2 tomes for con and wisdom.
    Last edited by TrinaLeFleur; 05-27-2011 at 12:44 AM.

  9. #9
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    Ok,

    From your starting build, i would drop your dex to 10. max wisdom. The order of your stats. Wisdom, Con, Str. Int, Dex, Chr.

    If i was building this, i would 15 wis, 14 str, 15 con, 10 dex, 10 chr, 10 int.
    Just eat a +1 tome of wis, and con, then +3 con at 11.

    Your going to get radiant bursts i hope, they regenerate,

    17 cleric, so ride cleric out if you are going to keep this build. I wouldn't use a tome on it till level 7. I believe a +3 tome doesn't help you till level 11. +2 help at 7. They don't before that no matter what they say. Don't waste your tome.

    Next, as a rogue, i started with a 12 int, and it doesn't hurt me at end game.

    This is only my opinion

    P.S. if you have half elf open, you could do this.

    H-elf 3 rogue, 17 cleric, fighter dilly. level 1 rogue, 2-9 cleric, 10 rogue, 11-19 cleric, 20 rogue.

    *edit* what server are you on*
    Good luck in what you choose
    I am one of the 1%

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by skunk View Post
    Ok,

    From your starting build, i would drop your dex to 10. max wisdom. The order of your stats. Wisdom, Con, Str. Int, Dex, Chr.

    If i was building this, i would 15 wis, 14 str, 15 con, 10 dex, 10 chr, 10 int.
    Just eat a +1 tome of wis, and con, then +3 con at 11.
    Two reasons for the high dex:
    1) Originally planned to go Rogue 17 - Fighter 2 - Cleric 1
    2) Balance-Hide-Move Silently-Open Locks - Tumble are all Dex skills.

    The high Int was to raise the Disable Device & Search skills to help find/disable traps and to find hidden doors, .

    As to the aforementioned +3 con- it's a belt that I can use at level 5, not a tome.
    Quote Originally Posted by skunk View Post
    Your going to get radiant bursts i hope, they regenerate,

    17 cleric, so ride cleric out if you are going to keep this build. I wouldn't use a tome on it till level 7. I believe a +3 tome doesn't help you till level 11. +2 help at 7. They don't before that no matter what they say. Don't waste your tome.
    As to the aforementioned +3 con- it's a belt that I can use at level 5, not a tome. And I have a +4 Wis necklace I can't use until level 7.

    Quote Originally Posted by skunk View Post
    Next, as a rogue, i started with a 12 int, and it doesn't hurt me at end game.

    This is only my opinion
    As I've never reached "End-Game," perhaps you can tell me what Disable Device, Open Locks, Search, and Spot should be at for end-game. Not maximums, mind you, but the minimum level to handle the majority of normal difficulty instances. I prefer to at least run a dungeon once solo, to familiarize myself before I join a party, so that I don't make a complete fool of myself.

    Before I reroll, I'd really like this answered, as I go nuts not being able to "find" a hidden door, and not being able to get past a locked door that can only be opened by picking, etc. I'd take 3 levels of Wizard or Sorcerer to get the spells, but Heavy Armor reduces the chance of success, and they would drastically lower my hit points.

    And, using anything that has to be purchased over & over to do things bugs me to no end. (Which is why I don't like bows, potions, scrolls, etc.) If I can do something without them I'd rather go that route.
    Quote Originally Posted by skunk View Post
    P.S. if you have half elf open, you could do this.

    H-elf 3 rogue, 17 cleric, fighter dilly. level 1 rogue, 2-9 cleric, 10 rogue, 11-19 cleric, 20 rogue.
    While H-elf w/ fighter dilly would give me the martial proficiencies, I'd lose the two fighter bonus feats at levels 2 & 4. (Which is the main reason, besides martial weapons, for taking fighter at all.)
    Quote Originally Posted by skunk View Post
    *edit* what server are you on*
    Good luck in what you choose
    I'm on Sarlona.
    Thanks for all of the advice.

  11. #11
    Community Member ProdigalGuru's Avatar
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    You are encountering a fairly typical rookie mistake: trying to do everything.

    By taking this approach, you are just gimping any of the good abilities you might get later on.

    Try a 2 class mix instead.

    I suggest Cleric 18/Rogue 2 for your goals, though I do not personally like this mix as it has bad synergy.

    The benefits of your Fighter levels are minor.

    Another option might be a Bard 18/Rogue 2.

    IMO the best mix of your criteria has been the Exploiter build, for quite a while. Tempest Ranger 18/Rogue 1/Monk 1.

    Rangers have self-healing, and the beatdown, and the splashes provide survivability + traps/locks.
    Tip# 203: Death is a traumatic experience.

  12. #12
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    ProdigalGuru: a sobering post, to say the least.
    I checked out the "Exploiter" build, not sure if it's what I want.
    I've never been very enthusiastic about the Bard, I still remember when it first came out, and all of the debate it caused. Never knew anyone in PnP who actually tried one.
    I've seen dozens of youtube videos of builds, and have noted that most folks who solo simply run through quests to get through as fast as possible without exploring, looting, or doing anything that makes dungeon crawling in PnP (or single player computer games) really fun.
    I've also noted that many player goups also enjoy rushing through quests, trying to complete as fast as possible, with their main goal to simply gain the quest's loot or favor.

    I can only assume that my role-playing desire is not compatible with DDO, or, at the very least, is nigh-on to impossible to play successfully in DDO.

    Based upon that assumption, Tihocan's Warpriest (with a few modifications) may be the best I can come up with in DDO.

  13. #13
    Community Member Esserbe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrinaLeFleur View Post
    I can only assume that my role-playing desire is not compatible with DDO, or, at the very least, is nigh-on to impossible to play successfully in DDO.
    Not true, at least not when it comes to rushing through dungeons. Find like-minded people to play with, I'm usually a very slow runner myself as I like to "smell the roses" as they say. Many people care about XP/minute ratios, but many do not.

  14. #14
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    Well...
    I tried Tihocan's Warpriest of Siberys, and almost got her to level 5 when I decided to try EinarMal's Exploiter build.
    The main problem with the Exploiter build, is that you don't get any self-healing until level 9, and it's not maxed out until level 15, which is about as bad as not having any at all, for a very long time, IMHO.
    As I enjoy the self-healing, buffing, and damage dealing that the Warpriest of Siberys build has, but hate not being able to detect traps before I spring them, I decided to combine the two builds into one.
    That is, I took level 1 as a Rogue, levels 2-4 as a Cleric, with the feats Two Handed Weapons, Martial Weapon: Great Sword, and Power Attack. With starting stats of: Str-16, Dex-10, Con-14, Int-14, Wis-14, & Cha-10, I'm able to keep Concentration, Search, and Open Locks max'ed out. With gear, enhancements, etc, my current stats are: Str-18, Dex-11, Con-15, Int-14, Wis-16, & Cha-10, and I have a Wis+4 item, as well as a Con+3 item that can be used at levels 7 & 5 repectively.
    With Full Plate +3 armor, and a +3 Great Sword, I'm able to pretty much play her like a Barbarian, but with the trap sense, Open Locks, and Search abilities of a Rogue.
    About the best I can come up with, for now.

  15. #15
    Community Member FrozenNova's Avatar
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    Without disable device it's all for naught. Anyone who's done the quest more than once knows where the traps are, and hence search is pointless unless you can disable the resultant box. Because of this most traps are made to be more or less unavoidable if you cannot disarm them.

    Posted here - http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?p=3793639 - is my attempt at a free player's self-healing ranger with trap skills. It doesn't require any special equipment to do what it does, and has a wide range of abilities, including stealth, use magical device (incredible in DDO) and ranged capacity. Its healing won't approach that of a cleric, of course, but surpasses that of most exploiter varients. Its healing is front loaded, with Heal available at level 9 and empower healing at 12, alongside a host of cure clickies. It lacks AC, the defining feature of the exploiter, but generally speaking AC is not something a new player is likely to be able to manage. Effective AC requires optimal gear throughout the levelling process.

  16. #16
    Build Constructionist unbongwah's Avatar
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    The basic problem with rogue / clerics is not enough skill pts to maintain your trap skills, unless you put a lot of pts into INT, which ends up potentially gimping your other stats, or take extra rogue lvls, which waters down your spellcasting. It sounds like what you really want is a rogue / bard who has a good mix of melee, spells, and trap skills. Try this on for size:

    Code:
    Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.9.1
    DDO Character Planner Home Page
    
    Level 20 True Neutral Drow Female
    (2 Fighter \ 2 Rogue \ 16 Bard) 
    Hit Points: 240
    Spell Points: 735 
    BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
    Fortitude: 10
    Reflex: 17
    Will: 9
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
    Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
    (28 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
    Strength             16                    24
    Dexterity            16                    18
    Constitution         12                    14
    Intelligence         14                    14
    Wisdom                8                     8
    Charisma             12                    14
    
    Tomes Used
    +1 Tome of Dexterity used at level 8
    +2 Tome of Strength used at level 20
    +2 Tome of Constitution used at level 20
    +2 Tome of Charisma used at level 20
    
                      Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                     Base Skills         Modified Skills
    Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
    Balance               7                    10
    Bluff                 1                     2
    Concentration         3                    31
    Diplomacy             1                     2
    Disable Device        6                    24
    Haggle                5                     6
    Heal                 -1                    -1
    Hide                  3                     4
    Intimidate            1                     2
    Jump                  7                    11
    Listen               -1                     1
    Move Silently         3                     4
    Open Lock             7                    16
    Perform               n/a                  25
    Repair                2                     2
    Search                6                    27
    Spot                  3                     5
    Swim                  3                     7
    Tumble                7                     8
    Use Magic Device      5                    29
    
    Level 1 (Rogue)
    Skill: Balance (+4)
    Skill: Concentration (+2)
    Skill: Disable Device (+4)
    Skill: Haggle (+4)
    Skill: Jump (+4)
    Skill: Open Lock (+4)
    Skill: Search (+4)
    Skill: Spot (+4)
    Skill: Tumble (+4)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
    Feat: (Selected) Toughness
    
    
    Level 2 (Fighter)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Two Weapon Fighting
    
    
    Level 3 (Bard)
    Skill: Perform (+6)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
    Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell (can be swapped for Empower Heal later)
    
    
    Level 4 (Bard)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Skill: Concentration (+5)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 5 (Bard)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1.5)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 6 (Bard)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1.5)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell
    
    
    Level 7 (Bard)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1.5)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 8 (Bard)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Disable Device (+2)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Search (+0.5)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 9 (Bard)
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
    
    
    Level 10 (Rogue)
    Skill: Disable Device (+2)
    Skill: Open Lock (+6)
    Skill: Search (+2)
    
    
    Level 11 (Bard)
    Skill: Concentration (+2)
    Skill: Perform (+2)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
    
    
    Level 12 (Bard)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1.5)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Piercing Weapons
    
    
    Level 13 (Bard)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1.5)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 14 (Bard)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 15 (Fighter)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
    Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell
    
    
    Level 16 (Bard)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Skill: Concentration (+2)
    Skill: Perform (+2)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
    
    
    Level 17 (Bard)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 18 (Bard)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
    
    
    Level 19 (Bard)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Open Lock (+0.5)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    
    
    Level 20 (Bard)
    Ability Raise: STR
    Skill: Balance (+1)
    Skill: Concentration (+1)
    Skill: Disable Device (+1)
    Skill: Perform (+1)
    Skill: Search (+1)
    Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
    Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
    Enhancement: Bard Extra Song I
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack I
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack II
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack III
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage I
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage II
    Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage III
    Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song I
    Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song II
    Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song III
    Enhancement: Bard Spellsinger I
    Enhancement: Bard Spellsinger II
    Enhancement: Drow Weapon Attack I
    Enhancement: Drow Weapon Damage I
    Enhancement: Elven Dexterity I
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
    Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
    Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
    Enhancement: Improved Concentration I
    Enhancement: Improved Concentration II
    Enhancement: Bard Lyric of Song I
    Enhancement: Bard Lyric of Song II
    Enhancement: Bard Lyric of Incredible Song I
    Enhancement: Bard Lyric of Incredible Song II
    Enhancement: Bard Song Magic I
    Enhancement: Bard Song Magic II
    Enhancement: Bard Song Magic III
    Enhancement: Bard Song Magic IV
    Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music I
    Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music II
    Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music III
    Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
    Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
    Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery I
    Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery II
    Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery III
    Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery IV
    TWF w/rapiers, Spellsinger for the SP-regen & reduced-SP-cost songs, heals, buffs, trap skills, UMD, Evasion, CC via Fascinate. You lose out on the divine buffs & DPS spells of clerics, but gain some nice arcane buffs (Blur, Displacement, Haste, etc.) and bard songs which are good for both buffing & CC. The main downsides are low HPs and the bard lvls are a bit backloaded, so it takes a while for your spellcasting to mature. If you're not wedded to drow, you could do a THF dwarf or human instead.
    Semi-retired Build Engineer. Everything was better back in our day. Get off my lawn.

  17. #17
    Community Member ProdigalGuru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TrinaLeFleur View Post
    ProdigalGuru: a sobering post, to say the least.
    I checked out the "Exploiter" build, not sure if it's what I want.
    I've never been very enthusiastic about the Bard, I still remember when it first came out, and all of the debate it caused. Never knew anyone in PnP who actually tried one.

    I can only assume that my role-playing desire is not compatible with DDO, or, at the very least, is nigh-on to impossible to play successfully in DDO.

    Based upon that assumption, Tihocan's Warpriest (with a few modifications) may be the best I can come up with in DDO.
    Yeah.... this isn't PnP, that's for sure, but please do not let that discourage you. You just need to learn the nuances of this game, and adapt a bit. Ever hear of a "Jack of all Trades"? Well, the second bit of that is "Master of None", and for the most part, it holds true in DDO.

    I really think that overall, you are going to be happiest with an Exploiter or a Bard/Rogue. They really do fit your criteria quite well. I never used to even consider a Bard build, because they seemed so femme, but I am really appreciating their subtle strengths the more I play with them.

    You should pick a thing that you want to do MOST, and concentrate on that, while putting as much as you can into the other things you want AFTER.

    Some things to keep in mind:
    1. Your blue bar is not the only way to heal yourself. Rangers get wands after 4 levels, and any character with UMD can scroll heal. Everyone can drink pots, too.
    2. Open Lock is not as helpful in DDO as it is in PnP.
    3. If you want to do traps, go hard or go home. You need MAX points in Search and Disable Device, along with +5 tools, and the highest + items for your level (swap them on to do the traps, then replace with combat items)
    4. Your game is what you make of it.
    Tip# 203: Death is a traumatic experience.

  18. #18
    Community Member ProdigalGuru's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FrozenNova View Post
    Without disable device it's all for naught. Anyone who's done the quest more than once knows where the traps are, and hence search is pointless unless you can disable the resultant box. Because of this most traps are made to be more or less unavoidable if you cannot disarm them.
    1. If you can't find the box, you can't even attempt to disable it. Search is not pointless, it's mandatory.

    2. Most traps are avoidable through elemental resist/protect/absorb, Evasion, or good twitch skills.
    Tip# 203: Death is a traumatic experience.

  19. #19
    Community Member
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    How I would do it, and how more DDO people will accept you into groups, is:

    Rogue first level, keep Disable Device maxed, the rest of the skills are yours

    only take one level of fighter the whole progression. This will allow you: 1 fighter, 2 rogue, 17 Cleric. 17 Cleric is the key to getting accepted in DDO. Without that most people won't accept you.

    somewhere near mid levels (9-12) take another level of rogue for 2 reasons, 1: Evasion, and 2: To make sure your skills are where they need to be by endgame (once again keep DD max). You'll have to decide when this level is best. You may want to wait all the way to about 14, to allow yourself Radiant Servant II first.

    That is both what you want, a battle cleric with rogue skills, and you will be able to perform as a cleric when the situation calls. If you plan perfectly you'll be fine.

  20. #20
    Community Member FrozenNova's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ProdigalGuru View Post
    1. If you can't find the box, you can't even attempt to disable it. Search is not pointless, it's mandatory.

    2. Most traps are avoidable through elemental resist/protect/absorb, Evasion, or good twitch skills.
    -Search without disable is pointless.
    -Unnavoidable in the sense that just being able to see it doesn't help you in the slightest.

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