11rog/9monk build

[lopter]

idea is for my reincarnate into rogue (so i can get the s/a damage when i reincarnate)
want to use hand wraps need to stay 10-11 rog minimum to get it opted for 11 for 6d6 sneak attack
I should have 8d6 sneak attack from my lvl+pres (anyone know if assassin + rogue lvls + ninja spy all stack?

312 starting
+60 +6 stat
+45 Greensteel
+30 gfl
+20 toughness
+10 draconic
___________
477 hp normally


Specific questions ninja spy + assassin sneak atk stack?

is Bluff worth it for sneak attack?
is spot needed anymore?
is Disable high enough?
is Open Lock high enough?
is Search high enough?

ie no enhancements or boosts are factored in at any point in time will this still be good enough throughout content to do my rogue duties?

is BAB 14 too rough? keep inmind i have past life active fighter feat and i do intend on getting divine favor/power clickies

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.9.1
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Level 20 Lawful Good Human Male
(9 Monk \ 11 Rogue) 
Hit Points: 312
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 14\14\19\24
Fortitude: 13
Reflex: 16
Will: 8

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(34 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             17                    25
Dexterity            15                    17
Constitution         15                    18
Intelligence         12                    14
Wisdom                8                     8
Charisma              9                     9

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 6
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               6                     9
Bluff                 3                    26
Concentration         2                     4
Diplomacy             3                    24
Disable Device        5                    25
Haggle                3                    22
Heal                 -1                    -1
Hide                  2                     9
Intimidate           -1                     1
Jump                  7                    14
Listen               -1                     1
Move Silently         2                     7
Open Lock             6                    26
Perform              n/a                   n/a
Repair                1                     2
Search                5                    25
Spot                  3                    15
Swim                  3                     7
Tumble                n/a                   n/a
Use Magic Device      3                    22

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Human Bonus) Oversized Two Weapon Fighting
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Fighter
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting


Level 2 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Dodge


Level 3 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Past Life: Student of the Sword
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Power Attack


Level 4 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Path) Path of Inevitable Dominion: Fists of Darkness


Level 5 (Monk)


Level 6 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Quick Draw


Level 7 (Monk)
Feat: (Monk Bonus) Toughness


Level 8 (Monk)


Level 9 (Monk)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting


Level 10 (Monk)


Level 11 (Rogue)


Level 12 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons


Level 13 (Rogue)


Level 14 (Rogue)


Level 15 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 16 (Rogue)


Level 17 (Rogue)


Level 18 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Weapon Fighting


Level 19 (Rogue)


Level 20 (Rogue)
Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Damage Boost II
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost III
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost IV
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Constitution I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing I
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing II
Enhancement: Rogue Subtle Backstabbing III
Enhancement: Static Charge
Enhancement: Way of the Faithful Hound I
Enhancement: Way of the Faithful Hound II
Enhancement: Touch of Death
Enhancement: Porous Soul
Enhancement: All-Consuming Flame
Enhancement: Monk Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Monk Ninja Spy I
Enhancement: Winter's Touch
Enhancement: Adept of Wind
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III
Enhancement: Rogue Assassin I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training II
Enhancement: Improved Bluff I
Enhancement: Improved Bluff II
Enhancement: Improved Diplomacy I
Enhancement: Improved Diplomacy II
Enhancement: Improved Hide I
Enhancement: Improved Hide II
Enhancement: Improved Jump I
Enhancement: Improved Jump II
Enhancement: Improved Move Silently I
Enhancement: Improved Move Silently II
Enhancement: Improved Tumble I
Enhancement: Improved Tumble II

[skunk]

bluff works well.

in epics 55 is good enough search and disable. (you get +7 disable from +5 tools).

Is spot needed, yes and no. It just depends on the groups you run with. It does help with seeing mobs that are stealthed.

Why did you want 9 monk? I don't know alot about monk, but would a 13 rogue 7 monk be better?

Give a little more information with what you want your build to fully do.

Drop diplo. Bluff is better. Put the points from diplo into Spot, UMD (max it), put 1 point in tumble. You might also like balance.

Rogue assassin 1 is not really good. Number 2 is where you get your assassinate ability.

[Malky]

Why did you want 9 monk? I don't know alot about monk, but would a 13 rogue 7 monk be better?
Monk 9 has over monk 7 : Touch of Death, imp evasion & 1 unarmed base dmg (1.5 with one monk PL). I guess it's enough to justify the 2 monk levels.

Rogue assassin 1 is not really good. Number 2 is where you get your assassinate ability.
Assassinate DC is 10+rogue level+int mod, there's no point of thinking about it (esp. in epics now) for any non-pure rogue build.

To the OP : if you're centered you BAB will be 17 due to Flurry of Blows

My 2 cp

[skunk]

To the OP : if you're centered you BAB will be 17 due to Flurry of Blows

My 2 cp

10 rogue you get improved evasion also. Just why i was wondering. (or opportunist.) 13 would give you the other

[lopter]

9 monk is for touch of death and 1 die step increase on my wraps.

concept is a speed hitter haste+wind stance with low threat generation for extra sneak attacks

thats for the bab tip! makes me feel more comfortable

i have umd maxed and spot is somewhat boosted but not maxed

reason i have diplo is i tend to lead out in grps which would cause agro issues hence aoe de agro mechanism

[unbongwah]

Have you considered monk 12 / rogue 7 / ftr 1? Monk 12 gets you third-tier stances (Earth III now boosts your crit multiplier by 1), Ninja Spy II (+2D6 SA helps make up for lost rogue lvls), and another bump in base die dmg.

BTW, why'd you take OTWF? Does nothing for handwraps (or short swords). Also, Stunning Fist DC is now based on char lvl not monk lvl; so I think it's worth adding to any multiclassed monk (probably Stunning Blow as well for good measure).

[Adrian99]

I'm interested in rolling one of these, but I'm wondering if 12 monk / 8 rogue might come out ahead. You get 3 fewer rogue levels, but I think that comes out even on sneak attack, losing 2d6 from rogue levels, and gaining 2d6 from ninja spy 2. Then you also get abundant step, one more die step on your damage, and +2 DC on ToD. But you would lose the 1 rogue feat, which could be opportunist or crippling strike. Any other trade-offs I'm missing?

[elujin]

the split doesn't sit right if you go 9 monk you prob better off 12 monk

[AMDarkwolf]

ok.. hate me but...


the 9/11 rog/monk who went 9 for touch of death will be the guy pinging away at a mob for 10..20..30...40... OH YAY he can ToD... drained... ok.. start over.

(IE it won't be stellar dps, you get more out of the 2nd tier of assass/acro than u do from ToD. At least WITHOUT Tod u have plenty of ki to keep those elemental, and dark, strikes going.)

[lopter]

for me i HAVE to have atleast 10 rogue i want past life rogue on this guy and have to have 10+ to achieve it so all splits for my build have to be 10 rogue and up.

i know this may cause a decrease in dps but i have nice wraps want to use em on my rogue lvls and still provide dps in needed situations.

a major unanswered question is TOD + 1 die step vs assassin 2 and rogue bonus feat

ie 11rogue/9mnk vs like 13 rogue/7 mnk

the rapid fire nature of rogue haste boost+windstance means i will likely never be out of ki .. most times on my current ftr/mnk build i acutally have a full ki bar even while constantly doing special moves

Otwf doesnt it give a +2 on my off hand making it the same as main hand for dps? good idea for stunning fist as well i will have to look at it with my low wis wasnt sure it would benifit me.

as far as inbetween dps 8d8 sneak attack + tod rings + wraps should provide significant damage esp with one of the fastest attack speeds in the game.

[Malky]

(IE it won't be stellar dps, you get more out of the 2nd tier of assass/acro than u do from ToD. At least WITHOUT Tod u have plenty of ki to keep those elemental, and dark, strikes going.)

Again : Assassin 2 is only 1d6 SA damage if you don't go pure rogue, assassinate DC with 12 rogue levels wouldn't even work well in vale, let alone everything past that point.

11rog / 9monk looks like a pretty solid build to me, ToD, imp evasion, opportunist, haste boost 4, 40 average SA damage with unarmed attack speed and the OP keeps more than 10 levels of rogue for future lives.

[skunk]

for me i HAVE to have atleast 10 rogue i want past life rogue on this guy and have to have 10+ to achieve it so all splits for my build have to be 10 rogue and up.

i know this may cause a decrease in dps but i have nice wraps want to use em on my rogue lvls and still provide dps in needed situations.

a major unanswered question is TOD + 1 die step vs assassin 2 and rogue bonus feat

ie 11rogue/9mnk vs like 13 rogue/7 mnk

the rapid fire nature of rogue haste boost+windstance means i will likely never be out of ki .. most times on my current ftr/mnk build i acutally have a full ki bar even while constantly doing special moves

Otwf doesnt it give a +2 on my off hand making it the same as main hand for dps? good idea for stunning fist as well i will have to look at it with my low wis wasnt sure it would benifit me.

as far as inbetween dps 8d8 sneak attack + tod rings + wraps should provide significant damage esp with one of the fastest attack speeds in the game.

Ok, good reasoning on the 11/9. I just wondered. (like i said i know rogue much better then monk.

Assassin 1 will actually help you with longer damage boost, and 1d6 sneak attack.

Oversized Two Weapon Fighting
Usage: Passive
When wielding a one handed weapon in your off-hand, you take penalties for fighting with two weapons as if you were wielding a light weapon in your off-hand.

(no clue if it gives bonus, but i don't think so, if just based off this).

if it doesn't you might want to take toughness there, and then take weapon focus bludge. or move power attack up, and take cleave (though not sure how cleave fist work).

[Malky]

OTWF does nothing for unarmed combat iirc, but cleaving with fists ? better rename the build 'The Spinning Dervish' then

On a last resort, you can put another toughness instead of otwf, more hp is always good.

[lopter]

yea im gonna have to look into what to replace otwf with hmm good options all thanks for the help

cleave doesnt break attack chains anymore right? and also does sneak attack apply on mobs hit with cleave?

and in general cleave worth it?

[slothinator]

I have cleave on a 4th level monk I just rolled, and it works pretty well. Instead of fists, it is a big sweeping kick. I have an 11th lvl horc ftr with cleave and great cleave, and I spam them constantly in large mobs. The attack sequence appears a bit slower, but you are getting 3 to 5 hits vs. the 1 you lost in the sequence. So IMO, cleave adn great cleave are worth it for any melee character.

I don't know if SA damage applies, but I have seen all of my elemental damages appear on cleave. I have also seen multi-crit strikes on cleave attacks, where 3 mobs all took about 150 points of damage.