Savant SLA comparison

[Ridag]

Oh sorry, I meant the principles of BB damage; damage when passing in/out of the BB. So when you move whilst casting it, the AoE sort of glitches and the mobs takes multiple damage rolls.

I'm horrible at explaining this and I'm not too sure myself so I will test it a bit more

Gotcha, I'll try playing around with it myself some too.

[Crazyfruit]

I don't want to get too specific just incase it's more of an "exploit" than a "neat thing". Filed a bug report earlier this week. Both of the posters above are on the right track though & that should get you able to do it occasionally.

I had been playing an archer/twitch melee (super squishy hp, dodging hits @ close range instead of absorbing them) for the past two years instead of a caster so it was just something I was doing naturally. Thought it was normal when I posted that 'something savant ez mode' post here until talking with a friend hehe

[Ridag]

I don't want to get too specific just incase it's more of an "exploit" than a "neat thing". Filed a bug report earlier this week. Both of the posters above are on the right track though & that should get you able to do it occasionally.

I had been playing an archer/twitch melee (super squishy hp, dodging hits @ close range instead of absorbing them) for the past two years instead of a caster so it was just something I was doing naturally. Thought it was normal when I posted that 'something savant ez mode' post here until talking with a friend hehe

I think I have an idea of what you're talking about, and I suspect that is not working as intended. I won't include it in the comparisons, but it is definitely good to know.

[Jaid314]

i've not been able to ever get it to happen reliably per se, but when i was leveling in korthos, it did seem to happen fairly often when i would kite a bunch of mobs then turn around, walk backwards, and hit them with burning hands.

[Siskel]

Burning hands seems to always double hit Earth Elementals for me.

[Eistander]

Just chiming in too regarding Scorch, I didn't actively try to have it "double-tap" as it was, but it almost seemed random, a lot like lightning bolt doing a rebound effect minus the roll that I saw.. pretty handy at low levels though.. only thing is, while you can curve the spell somewhat, it goes straight ahead (can't go up or down), but you do get some leeway with a side-to-side motion.. too quick though, and it just doesn't go anywhere lol

[danotmano1998]

First off, +1 to you for posting this.
I've been doing some comparison shopping for savant choice myself.


Next:
As far as "doubletapping" damages.. It's not uncommon for me to get double damage on things, mostly with my acid spray. I can't confirm or deny that it works with other spells. Nor can I say for sure if it's because I was turning or moving. Usually when I'm casting that spell I have one finger on the "W" key, a hand on my mouse (in look mode), and I'm using a number key to quickcast. So it IS a possibility.

This happens probably 10% of the time. After reading this, I think I'm going to experiment with it.

[Ridag]

Yeah I'm thinking that the Burning Hands/Acid Spray/Scorch double+ hits are more lag & positioning dependent than anything. Just with a little messing around it is clearly easier to accomplish on mobs that have more body mass and while moving.

Certainly not intended spell behavior, but also something that is not easily fixed. Bug report it and enjoy the benefits while they last.

[Seph1roth5]

Very nice list. The only thing I'd disagree with is that I think electric loop beats out melf's.

My sorceror was earth style from ~10-15 then switched to air from ~15-19. Melf's was pretty great for hitting someone from far away and then have them die before they got to me. But electric loop was much more useful. Maybe it was because I had heighten, but it seemed to dace monsters 95% of the time for me.

True it's a short 6-8 second daze that breaks when they're hit, but it was still awesome to keep everything out of commission so melees could take them out 1 at a time. It helps a lot in elite junk like crucible.

[Ridag]

Very nice list. The only thing I'd disagree with is that I think electric loop beats out melf's.

My sorceror was earth style from ~10-15 then switched to air from ~15-19. Melf's was pretty great for hitting someone from far away and then have them die before they got to me. But electric loop was much more useful. Maybe it was because I had heighten, but it seemed to dace monsters 95% of the time for me.

True it's a short 6-8 second daze that breaks when they're hit, but it was still awesome to keep everything out of commission so melees could take them out 1 at a time. It helps a lot in elite junk like crucible.

I took this all from an end-game stand point. I can't really comment on what is better leveling, because I haven't leveled as each individual Savant, and there are so many variable from past lives to twink gear to what quest you're running, to mobs that are completely unaffected by the daze. Too many moving parts and it will vary from one person to the next, so I tried to shy away from that subjectivity.

If I could pick any three SLAs from any Savant at endgame I'd pick Niac's from T1, Melf's from T2 and Lightning Bolt from T3. That would be insane, long range, SLA damage!

[Alex301]

Burning hands seems to always double hit Earth Elementals for me.

I've noticed the same thing, only with acid spray. It seems to always double strike earth elementals regardless of their position or lag.

[stille_nacht]

I understand your point here, and understand that my opinion is meant more to highlight the fact that the number of lances should increase with +MCL more than anything else.

My point on the crit chance is that if you cast any of the other T3 SLAs you get 1 crit roll for each target that it hits and you get full crit damage on the spell. For Frost Lance you can get crit/non/non or any variations there of and the chances of rolling three crits in a row is lower than rolling one crit on any of the other SLAs and even rolling crit/crit/non is less damage then a crit on any of the others. So the AE SLAs are better on single targets than the single target SLA, Lightning Bolt by far due to the double strike.

The fact that it is single target is really what drops it to the bottom of the list of T3 SLAs. Water really got kind of hosed on AE SLAs all the way around, perhaps because it is the strongest single target DPS of all the Savants.

still agree that frost lance is worst since single target (i mean, unless you only talk about pit fiends), but for crits:

if all had, say, 33% crit rate

normal, normal, crit for lightning bolt theoretically right?
crit, normal, normal for fireball theoretically
normalnormalcrit, normalnormalnormal,critcritnormal for ice lance.

it might be more spread out, but it still has the same increase in damage due to crits overall. its like dual scimitars vs. a falchion. The falchions crits for higher, but the scimitars crit more often, same overall increase in dps on single targets.

if a mob drops in one crit, then you actually "wasted" some of the sp that would have been for damage :], so technically, a little more spread out is better. on a single large target, damage is the same increase.

also, lightning bolt can doublecast? o-O_O

[Ridag]

still agree that frost lance is worst since single target (i mean, unless you only talk about pit fiends), but for crits:

if all had, say, 33% crit rate

normal, normal, crit for lightning bolt theoretically right?
crit, normal, normal for fireball theoretically
normalnormalcrit, normalnormalnormal,critcritnormal for ice lance.

it might be more spread out, but it still has the same increase in damage due to crits overall. its like dual scimitars vs. a falchion. The falchions crits for higher, but the scimitars crit more often, same overall increase in dps on single targets.

if a mob drops in one crit, then you actually "wasted" some of the sp that would have been for damage :], so technically, a little more spread out is better. on a single large target, damage is the same increase.

also, lightning bolt can doublecast? o-O_O

I see where you are going, a lot more spread out so lower DPS.

Yeah Lightning Bolt has a 50% chance to fork and the fork will hit your target twice each hit with a chance to crit. It is phenomenal, truly.

[stille_nacht]

I see where you are going, a lot more spread out so lower DPS.

Yeah Lightning Bolt has a 50% chance to fork and the fork will hit your target twice each hit with a chance to crit. It is phenomenal, truly.

pretty beastly.

also, spread out is not lower dps....

for example with maths this time. Lets say, for example, that lightning bolt hits for 18, while frost lance hits for 3 times 6. right? now lets say that they get a 5% critical rate for times two.

20 casts of lightning bolt will get you 1 critical on average, so 19x18+ 1x36= 378
20 cast of frost lance is equivalent to 60 lances, 3 criticals on average, so 57x6 + 3x12= 378

of course, the highes single crit lightning bolt would get would be higher, 36 points, but since frost lance would crit three times as often, it is the same average DPS increase, if both people cast those in say, 10 seconds, they would both have 37.8 DPS, just slightly less chance to overkill mob w/ frost lance.

[Sparky21]

thanks for the post, its a helpful guide.

i agree with most, but the frost lance being weakest of tier 3...i believe it is as good as the others

mainly because of its range. also its great for crit fishing, and no reflex save (like you mentioned, cannot be evaded)

frost lance has double range of the other spells, making it very powerful imo. you can spam it a couple times before the enemy has a chance to hit you.

i have a fire savant right now, lvl 13. my main fire spells are firewall, fireball, scorching ray, and scorch. scorching ray is lvl 2 version of frost lance...and it is my first choice hands down when choosing long range targets. it annihilates just about anything because it has 3 chances to crit instead of just one...this enhances its average damage per cast.
sure fireball is great, and when i get close in (which i am most times) its the best spell. but scorching ray and frost lance have massive single target damage...perfect for raid bosses/epic end fights. which is great for some styles of play

[Ridag]

Ahh I'm tracking ya now, the maths surely does help me understand better.

+1 for the explanation

[Kourier]

Must spread more rep before giving to Ridag again...

[Ridag]

thanks for the post, its a helpful guide.

i agree with most, but the frost lance being weakest of tier 3...i believe it is as good as the others

mainly because of its range. also its great for crit fishing, and no reflex save (like you mentioned, cannot be evaded)

frost lance has double range of the other spells, making it very powerful imo. you can spam it a couple times before the enemy has a chance to hit you.

Lightning Bolt also has the extend range like Frost Lance, but can hit multiple targets. Not saying Frost Lance is a bad SLA, just not as good as the others in the third Tier. Frost Lance deserves to receive additional lances from the +MCL of the Savant and ToD set to bring up to par with the others in its Tier.

i have a fire savant right now, lvl 13. my main fire spells are firewall, fireball, scorching ray, and scorch. scorching ray is lvl 2 version of frost lance...and it is my first choice hands down when choosing long range targets. it annihilates just about anything because it has 3 chances to crit instead of just one...this enhances its average damage per cast.
sure fireball is great, and when i get close in (which i am most times) its the best spell. but scorching ray and frost lance have massive single target damage...perfect for raid bosses/epic end fights. which is great for some styles of play

Scorching Ray has no save, it is a spectacular spell and would have been a tad overpowered as an SLA.

Must spread more rep before giving to Ridag again...

I need to learn to spread out my helpful posts, I fail at rep farming.

[Hobgoblin]

-1 rep for making me rethink taking my wizze and rolling him as an air savant! was gonna make him an earth savant but no!

hob


Edit: all neg rep in this post is purely fictional. no poster/animals/kobolds were hurt in the making of this post

[Ridag]

-1 rep for making me rethink taking my wizze and rolling him as an air savant! was gonna make him an earth savant but no!

hob


Edit: all neg rep in this post is purely fictional. no poster/animals/kobolds were hurt in the making of this post

If you do decide on Air over Earth I can recommend this build: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=318239