Intimidate or Hate?

[LargeMarge]

Do I need to invest my skill points into Intimidate or can I depend on Hate to generate the agro needed to tank? I would rather use my skill points else where if I could. Plus with my low CHA, I don't think I could get my Intimidate high enough to do any good. With the way I plan on building my Barb, I would have the following bonuses to my threat...

Orcish Brute Fighting III (+20% extra threat)
Stalwart Defender Set (+15% extra threat)
Greater Vulkoor's Might (+20% extra threat)

I like the idea of having a toon with a good amount of Hate Generation, Healing Amp (+20%, & 30%), good HP (+900 Fully Raged), and good DPS. Let me know your opinions.

[thwart]

I find that soloing is the answer. No need to worry about intimidate or hate generation.

[Illiain]

Both?

Intimidate is now a hatetanking tool, used as an aoe to grab trash for a little while while you beat on the boss. It can also help for undergeared hate tanks to rise quickly up the threat list.

[Ironforge_Clan]

Do I need to invest my skill points into Intimidate or can I depend on Hate to generate the agro needed to tank? I would rather use my skill points else where if I could. Plus with my low CHA, I don't think I could get my Intimidate high enough to do any good. With the way I plan on building my Barb, I would have the following bonuses to my threat...

Orcish Brute Fighting III (+20% extra threat)
Stalwart Defender Set (+15% extra threat)
Greater Vulkoor's Might (+20% extra threat)

I like the idea of having a toon with a good amount of Hate Generation, Healing Amp (+20%, & 30%), good HP (+900 Fully Raged), and good DPS. Let me know your opinions.

Answer is you want both intimidate and hate generation if you want aggro and to keep it.

[grodon9999]

Both.

[LargeMarge]

Both.

Yeah, but with my low CHA score, and my gear setup...I won't have a high enough Intimidate to do any good.

Also, I didn't think with the new changes to intimidate that it works as an AOE for picking up aggro?

[Kourier]

Yeah, but with my low CHA score, and my gear setup...I won't have a high enough Intimidate to do any good.

Also, I didn't think with the new changes to intimidate that it works as an AOE for picking up agro?

Works great as an AoE pick up provided your teammates don't start attacking different mobs. This is how tanking works in other MMOs that I've seen. As long as you don't damage a mob after it's been intimidated it should stick on you forever.

Plus, if you pick up Barbarian intimidation it makes it easier for your team mates to land tactics and spells.

[LargeMarge]

So are you guys saying that with out the Intimidate skill (even if it is low)...a Barb would not be effective as a "Tank" and holding aggro? Even with a 15%, 20% and a 20% enhancement to extra threat AND glancing blows?

[Enoach]

I don't think they are saying that you wont be effective...

You will be MORE effective with Intimidate as it adds 50% to 100% (w/Shield) to your threat multiplier.

So instead of your 55% multiplier you could have a 105% multiplier (w/o Shield)

Sample using 100 as the damage.
So instead of 100 hp dmg = 155 on the Hate List it would be equal to 205

Now look at who you are trying to hold agro from... Can you generate more hate faster then they can?

[Cardtrick]

So are you guys saying that with out the Intimidate skill (even if it is low)...a Barb would not be effective as a "Tank" and holding aggro? Even with a 15%, 20% and a 20% enhancement to extra threat AND glancing blows?

Won't be as effective. Part of the reason is that most situations in which you actually care about having a tank have a boss and also some trash enemies. A pure hate tank can only get aggro on the enemies he's actually hitting (which should just be the boss), whereas a tank with access to Intim can also pull the aggro of the trash. Plus, the new version of Intim, using the skill (even if you fail) boosts your hate tanking abilities still further for a time.

[Tobril]

Is this for your tricked out barb in that other thread?

If so then I wouldn't worry about intim for anything but occasional trash usage.

If you don't hold aggro with GTHF, your threat gear, and a decent DR breaker after a haste boost or two with that character then someone is wearing way too much threat gear, activated a hate stance, polar rayed for 1432412349124 damage, etc.

[grodon9999]

Yeah, but with my low CHA score, and my gear setup...I won't have a high enough Intimidate to do any good.

Also, I didn't think with the new changes to intimidate that it works as an AOE for picking up aggro?

My dorf has a starting 6 CHR and a 65 intim (if I care enough) with no feats invested.

[sephiroth1084]

So are you guys saying that with out the Intimidate skill (even if it is low)...a Barb would not be effective as a "Tank" and holding aggro? Even with a 15%, 20% and a 20% enhancement to extra threat AND glancing blows?

You should have outlined what your character was like when you asked your initial question.

If you're a barbarian, you should have no problem holding aggro without intimidate. Still, intimidate + Barbarian Intimidate (causes Shaken for -2 to saves and attacks) would be very useful in a lot of groups.

[LargeMarge]

Is this for your tricked out barb in that other thread?

If so then I wouldn't worry about intim for anything but occasional trash usage.

If you don't hold aggro with GTHF, your threat gear, and a decent DR breaker after a haste boost or two with that character then someone is wearing way too much threat gear, activated a hate stance, polar rayed for 1432412349124 damage, etc.

Yeah...its for my barb. However, I am looking at her next TR. For this TR I have invested some points into Intimidate, but I am thinking that I might not invest skill points into her next TR.

[Illiain]

Also trash tends to have a much lower intim value. For a nofail intim on VOD hard you need 61, the orthons are in the 40 range. With a 30-35 intim you'll have a good chance to grab agro of most of the orthons, while the rest of the dps kills the couple you missed.

If you can keep the agro for most of the incoming damage, it makes the healers job a lot easier, and allows the dps to single out and kill targets. A tanks job is all about controlling the targets. The more targets you can control, through intim and hate, the easier your runs will be.

[Tobril]

Yeah...its for my barb. However, I am looking at her next TR. For this TR I have invested some points into Intimidate, but I am thinking that I might not invest skill points into her next TR.

I’d say work it in if you can, but don’t stress over it if you want other stuff.

Having the option is really nice, even if it’s not used every day.