16 Con

[Ugumagre]

For me, the sentence "Con is not a dumpstat" means "if you know what you are doing, do as you please. If you are new, DONT dump Con".
Is perfectly OK to have 10 or 12 in Con, if you gear well, take some enhancements and so on.
20 Con and 0% fortification is also a bad idea.

[Missing_Minds]

This really isn't true.

You can't make up for the inevitable lag spikes, rolled 1's, human error and plain old bad luck with playstyle.

If that is your reason, 30 con won't help either in lag spikes. I remember those days and it didn't help during the spikes.
Bad luck hits everyone.
Human error: no one is perfect.
1's happen. And if that is the case, the likely hood that a 14 would have saved you vs. a 10 is slim, but even more slim is the chance that such a case would consistently happen. Sure, you could say that is a difference of 40 hp at high levels. That 40 hp is MAYBE one melee swing of a mob on elite standard quests, but not even one on epic. So no, it really isn't much.

So yes, player skill, aka playstyle, will do so.

Heck, good skills can also keep you alive without heavy fort at high levels. I don't advise it however.

[WolfSpirit]

Well of course, within the limits of reason. I'm not advocating 6 CON builds here, just saying that above a certain minimum (say, 300-350ish), extra HP is just room for error, and with careful play, those errors can be avoided.

~
I'm with Astraghal here. No amount of careful play is going to get you out of the way of a centrally targeted Metorswarm.
No careful way to avoid the Server Lag that gets EVERYONE. Sorry, there simply is no way to get out of the way here...
I have guildies that have dumped con.
They brag, I got a +6 item so its better now...
Bless their heart, they die ALL the time. FAR more times than anyone who HAS started with at least a 14 CON.
The difference is, BECAUSE they die so often and have since they have started playing it just becomes routine. They are used to dying at least once per quest. They dont know what its like to survive and not die 10 quests in a row. The term "squishy" was indeed created for them and its NOT a term of endearment. Most often, they are NOT the ones running everyones stones to the rest shrine, they are among the first to die.
HP really is the most important thing you can do for your character.
Not dying is MUCH more fun AND useful to the entire group!
So go ahead, dump con. But you better have the Feats for 3 or MORE Toughnesses!

[NexEverto]

Some people enjoy making 6 con elf wizards, with a monk splash for windstance while wearing bloodrage symbiont.

That reminds me, I should post my Perma-Incapacitated character somewhere on these forums... Just for giggles.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

Ah...if only we could make everyone else's characters for them.....















(Of course they would have to be rerolled every mod... but it sure would make filling up our LFMs with exactly the kinds of characters we want, a whole lot easier...)

[baddax]

Less con (not dump) is perfectly acceptable after your 3rd life as a barb and you have crafted your tier 3 hp item. None of which is likely on new/newer players.

[Phidius]

The guy who brought me to this game ended his DDO career with a base 8 Con Elf Paladin. You would have never known that, however, as the guy just wouldn't die.

Player skill > 60 HP.

For those of us without the skill, get the 60 HP.

[SableShadow]

They are used to dying at least once per quest.

That's not a con problem; that's a chair-to-keyboard interface problem.

One of the things the old death penalties did was train you that "death hurts!". Want to level? L2P.

That's missing these days.

[varusso]

Yes, please make 16 CON mandatory.
Also make 18 DEX mandatory. Tired of ppl dying in traps. (Also, everyone should be forced to make their first 2 lvls rogue or monk)
We should all start with 16 WIS too. All those ppl getting held are really annoying. (we could also require everyone to be WF for the blanket immunity)
And 14 INT too. Tired of all these gimps not having enough skill points to properly bump all of their skills. (Evryone must have one lvl of rogue or bard for more skill too)
Oh and a 12 STR. Sick of the healers and mages complaining about being incapped and unable to perform while under Ray of Enfeeblement.
And 18 CHA. Tired of all these ugly toons running around without UMD.
Oh and mandatory 2 toughness feats. If we are gonna make ppl have HP, by god lets make them HAVE HP.
Also, lets force players to buy Vale. You cant buy ANY other pack until you have it. The others simply wont show up in the DDO store until you do.
Almost forgot. Remove all of the 'old' races from the game. As new races are introduced, remove the old ones on a one for one basis. If someone has a toon with that race, delete it. They should have known better anyway.

There are 19 other lvls in the game besides cap. There are 3 other difficulty settings besides epic (4 if you actually count casual). Not everything in the game is about running epics. When a player reaches the point where they are ready to try epics, they will learn on their own just how much weight each choice they have made will carry in that ONE specific setting. for the other 95% of the game, they will be just fine.

Playstyle, skill, and gear make up for ALOT of 'errors' in stats. Lack of one or more of these things can only be compensated so far by stats. Attempting to predefine players and their characters by FORCING your personal choices on them? No.

[adamkatt]

Some people enjoy making 6 con elf wizards, with a monk splash for windstance while wearing bloodrage symbiont.

There was a person on thelanis who did this with here 6 con ranger on purpose!!! I just though she was crazy.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

Yes, please make 16 CON mandatory.
Also make 18 DEX mandatory. Tired of ppl dying in traps. (Also, everyone should be forced to make their first 2 lvls rogue or monk)
We should all start with 16 WIS too. All those ppl getting held are really annoying. (we could also require everyone to be WF for the blanket immunity)
And 14 INT too. Tired of all these gimps not having enough skill points to properly bump all of their skills. (Evryone must have one lvl of rogue or bard for more skill too)
Oh and a 12 STR. Sick of the healers and mages complaining about being incapped and unable to perform while under Ray of Enfeeblement.
And 18 CON. Tired of all these ugly toons running around without UMD.
Oh and mandatory 2 toughness feats. If we are gonna make ppl have HP, by god lets make them HAVE HP.
Also, lets force players to buy Vale. You cant buy ANY other pack until you have it. The others simply wont show up in the DDO store until you do.
Almost forgot. Remove all of the 'old' races from the game. As new races are introduced, remove the old ones on a one for one basis. If someone has a toon with that race, delete it. They should have known better anyway.

There are 19 other lvls in the game besides cap. There are 3 other difficulty settings besides epic (4 if you actually count casual). Not everything in the game is about running epics. When a player reaches the point where they are ready to try epics, they will learn on their own just how much weight each choice they have made will carry in that ONE specific setting. for the other 95% of the game, they will be just fine.

Playstyle, skill, and gear make up for ALOT of 'errors' in stats. Lack of one or more of these things can only be compensated so far by stats. Attempting to predefine players and their characters by FORCING your personal choices on them? No.

Actually....most LFMs are for the easiest loot runs.

[varusso]

Actually....most LFMs are for the easiest loot runs.

Yes and god knows i *NEED* that 400+ HP in a lvl 18-20 group running a lvl 12-14 elite loot run

[Sarisa]

While not everyone does epics, hard/elite Amrath (teleporting devils), elite Running with the Devils (70+ damage unblockable unavoidable Searing Lights spammed every 2 seconds), 250 point disintegrates on the way to HoX, are all examples of why the 220 HP 0% fort 1-hit-wonder builds are a bad idea.

Those builds can even struggle in normal Amrath in groups without great healing/CC.

[varusso]

While not everyone does epics, hard/elite Amrath (teleporting devils), elite Running with the Devils (70+ damage unblockable unavoidable Searing Lights spammed every 2 seconds), 250 point disintegrates on the way to HoX, are all examples of why the 220 HP 0% fort 1-hit-wonder builds are a bad idea.

Those builds can even struggle in normal Amrath in groups without great healing/CC.

Amrath (especially on elite) is, in many ways, more epic than many epics. I lump it in with Epics for purposes of build discussions.

[grodon9999]

If the 20 HP between 14 (12 for elves) and 16 starting CON gimps you then the problem exists between the keyboard and the chair.

Come on, my fighter started with a 14 and has well over 700 buffed.

[grodon9999]

While not everyone does epics, hard/elite Amrath (teleporting devils), elite Running with the Devils (70+ damage unblockable unavoidable Searing Lights spammed every 2 seconds), 250 point disintegrates on the way to HoX, are all examples of why the 220 HP 0% fort 1-hit-wonder builds are a bad idea.

Those builds can even struggle in normal Amrath in groups without great healing/CC.

yes, and a 300 HP 1-hit wonder is SO much better.

[KillEveryone]

I don't think the OP is truly serious. Probably ran into some squishy types that didn't know how to play a character that is squishy in the first place.

[varusso]

If the 20 HP between 14 (12 for elves) and 16 starting CON gimps you then the problem exists between the keyboard and the chair.

Come on, my fighter started with a 14 and has well over 700 buffed.

In fairness, 14 CON on a rogue is different than 14 CON on a fighter. Fighters have higher HP/HD, thus they can afford to chip away a little more.

-- Which is of course why mandating ANY stat across the board is foolish.

[Hordo]

I do not care what your con is as long as you do not die often and play well.

*sniff*

[Qezuzu]

There was a person on thelanis who did this with here 6 con ranger on purpose!!! I just though she was crazy.

On such a toon, I would max out Stealth (and any other method of completing a quest without taking any damage at all).

Or I could name it McPermadead the Unreliable, and be a the griefer everyone wants because my HP is so low they want to see how many times I'll die.