Guild Renown Decay is broken.

[QueenPennyThe1st]

If guild renown is going to be based on random drops rather than actual game play, what difference does it make if I actually do my job, i.e. heal as a cleric, dps as a fighter, etc, if I can walk into a dungeon after the fact, before the final objective is completed, not do a thing to help the party and walk out with more renown than the toons that were there for the whole time, doing their jobs and working as a team, then why do more?

There is more to this game than the standard MMO, Dungeons and Dragons was based on party play, a group of people working together, pitted against a (sometimes sadistic) Dungeon Master, who could not only withhold xp for not doing what was expected from a character, but change your alignment for doing something contrary to your characters alignment.

In the solo dungeon "explosive situation" lawful good characters should be penalized for blowing up the barrels to get the extra loot, they have told the NPC that they will leave the barrels alone and yet players get extra bonus points for ransacking the dungeon......

If the only thing that is effected by alignment is the type of weapon you can use, then why bother? In PNP a paladin would never run with a chaotic rogue, it would go against everything he stood for..... and if he knowingly looked the other way as the rogue assinated people for money, his alignment would suffer.

I realize that an MMO is not capable of individualizing game play in this manner, (or perhaps it is) but at the very least, each dungeon shows the number of kills, breakables, traps disabled.......could those numbers not reflect the renown awarded in chests? And perhaps step it up, give extra renown to the cleric who raises the dead and heals the party, the rogue who successfully disables the traps before the barbarian sets them off, and gets himself killed.
The fighter who kills dosens more than the bard, the bard who game him the inspiration to do so, and charmed the bad guys to help him do it, the numbers for "misadventures" are there, calculate them, it is simple math, not rocket science. Wizards and Sorc's whose spells often save the day, those numbers show up as kills, use them!

And the guy who pikes, gets, nada, zip, zilch, as far as renown. I am not saying "do not have a real life" far from it, I am saying, reward good game play with renown that is reflective of that play.

I am beginning to understand the call of the permadeath groups, they are doing what they can to "keep it real" as far as the spirit of the game in its original form, Hail Gygax!

[Tomalon]

If guild renown is going to be based on random drops rather than actual game play, what difference does it make if I actually do my job, i.e. heal as a cleric, dps as a fighter, etc, if I can walk into a dungeon after the fact, before the final objective is completed, not do a thing to help the party and walk out with more renown than the toons that were there for the whole time, doing their jobs and working as a team, then why do more?

Well for starters, if you did this^^^ it would not be long before your name was added to everyone's "friends" list thus making it hard for you to even get in a grp to get the renown.

Just forget about the renown and the guild lvl and enjoy the game and your friends.

Turdine went in to the guild ships like everything else they do halfA....oh wait i was told i can't say that any more......1/2donky??

Eternal Wrath gets, and loses, level 81 daily. This has been for over a month now. It's something to laugh at - really, if you think about it, it's pretty awesome to still be gaining a level a day.

yesterday:Yea we hit 81.............Again!!!!
today: yea we hit 81........again
Tomorrow: 81 again guys

[QueenPennyThe1st]

My point still remains, it would not be hard to fix the system....

[Kinerd]

Wizards and Sorc's whose spells often save the day, those numbers show up as kills, use them!

For instance, Disco Ball... which generates 0 kills. Hypnotism, Web, Hold, etc. Or the other way - GH, stoneskin, blur, mass protects. Your proposal would reward the Wizard who wanders around spamming Meteor Swarm over the Wizard who ccs everything, hands out buffs, manages aggro.

It is really more rocket science than simple math, because you have to take everything in context if you want to do it right.

[Kages]

God I need to be nicer so I can accumulate enough favor to neg rep people. Meh, fat chance of me being nice.

[BOgre]

You know, if you think about it, this may be the one thing in the game that's working perfectly! It actually may be capturing the 'Quality' of a guild, in that not EVERY guild will be able to achieve the maximum level. Only the 'Perfect' guild, with the 'Right' combination of size and activity level, will be able to achieve and sustain it. So, if your guild seems to have maxed out at level 81, well, you're a level 81 guild. Not everyone, not every guild can be 'The Best'.
Of course, this all depends highly on what your (or Turbine's) ideas of 'Quality', 'Perfect', 'Right' and 'The Best' are....

[Doomcrew]

You know, if you think about it, this may be the one thing in the game that's working perfectly! It actually may be capturing the 'Quality' of a guild, in that not EVERY guild will be able to achieve the maximum level. Only the 'Perfect' guild, with the 'Right' combination of size and activity level, will be able to achieve and sustain it. So, if your guild seems to have maxed out at level 81, well, you're a level 81 guild. Not everyone, not every guild can be 'The Best'.
Of course, this all depends highly on what your (or Turbine's) ideas of 'Quality', 'Perfect', 'Right' and 'The Best' are....

What he said.

[Kages]

Wow I'm impressed. It didn't take 5 minutes to get 8 people to neg rep that post. Appreciated.

[BurningDownTheHouse]

You know, if you think about it, this may be the one thing in the game that's working perfectly! It actually may be capturing the 'Quality' of a guild, in that not EVERY guild will be able to achieve the maximum level. Only the 'Perfect' guild, with the 'Right' combination of size and activity level, will be able to achieve and sustain it. So, if your guild seems to have maxed out at level 81, well, you're a level 81 guild. Not everyone, not every guild can be 'The Best'.
Of course, this all depends highly on what your (or Turbine's) ideas of 'Quality', 'Perfect', 'Right' and 'The Best' are....

OK, OK...

I am the highest Quality, Perfect in every way, always Right and obviously The Best.

Now that This is all settled to every ones satisfaction, can we go back to enjoying the game?

[Zenako]

The Guild Rep system is not intended for everyone to be able to max it out at 100.

It is intended to reflect how active and adventure driven a guild is.

Every Guild will, unless they change who they are and how they play, hit a plateau where their rank will more or less settle in. The daily activity of guild is enough to offset the decay and you have reached that plateau.

For some guilds that is level 30, for others it is 45, or 60 or even 81 (as noted above). Guild rank is a dynamic number, not something you just add to and watch grow every time you play like Experience Points. (In fact old school DDO had experience points that could "decay" if you died in quests too often.)

Accept that you are a "level 61" guild. That the activity of your guild reflects that.

As to getting renown, it is variable award, to help ensure it cannot be metagamed too much. However the more you play, the more quests you run that challenge your character level, the better the awards will be.


PS, I have a real hard time getting my hands around a guild with 600 accounts. There is no way I would ever be able to know that many people in a guild. The ones I run in are over an order of magnitude smaller, and qualify for some small guild bonuses. In the high 40's last I looked, but as far as recall we took the attitude of it will be what it will be, just play and watch the guild rank increase, or not.

[BruxaDo71]

Obviously there is a conflict of interest in this case. People from small guilds dont want a change or just say that they don't care. People from big guilds want a change because they start to feel they are in disadvantage with this system.

In the current system, you don't need to be "the best", just have to choose the right guild size.

[joueur]

Wow I'm impressed. It didn't take 5 minutes to get 8 people to neg rep that post. Appreciated.

You're welcome.

You're Epeen was shortened by the Gods of Rep.

[Cyr]

Guild renown decay is Broken. our guild on sarlona is one of the largest guilds and has the following problem:

Guild renown decay: PIF is comprised of 616 accounts, 420 active 243 inactive for a modified size of 196. This number is what our renown decay is based on. Booting inactive accounts will raise this number and increase our renown decay.
Any thoughts on this would be appreciated.

Okay I'm confused. Why is the modified size of the guild listed above equal to the # of active accounts - # of innactive accounts? Wouldn't it be 616 total accounts - # inactive accounts = # of active accounts = modified size of guild...

You don't actually get a guild renown bonus for having more people in your guild who are not playing the game right?

[mudfud]

As some people stated already, guild renown shouldn't be a competition or something to base you playing this great game off of.

I'm more then happy with just having lvl 22. With that I can get discounted potions, scrolls, and wands.

Ship Buffs are only meant as a griefing tool since 99% of people don't get the ship buffs before the party fills but only at the exact moment it fills or when people are ready to enter a quest.

At higher lvls it's griefing because I really don't want to see a ! on the top side of my screen saying someone got high enough. Wow, congratulations you got to so and so level, but I don't see why I should have to logoff and back on to get rid of it.

Don't forget the spam that guild renown has caused. Nobody wants to see first advice channel spammed if they can can ship invite for buffs altar, then following the first 20 of that they go to trade, then go to general.

Okay I'm confused. Why is the modified size of the guild listed above equal to the # of active accounts - # of innactive accounts? Wouldn't it be 616 total accounts - # inactive accounts = # of active accounts = modified size of guild...

You don't actually get a guild renown bonus for having more people in your guild who are not playing the game right?

Pretty sure the formula is:

Total accounts - inactive + recent departures = modified size
But I'm also pretty sure if your modified guild size is above 50 you won't get a bonus anyways.

[Woodmansee]

Get rid of the stupid renown decay.

[madmaxhunter]

The system is broken

I'll explain, the largest guild on Sarlona has 9 members. I'm sure they are all active power players. That's fine. Here's my problem, my guild hit 55 accounts, we accepted anyone, casual or power. Several incoming and a few outgoing. At 55 accounts, level 45, with 15 power players, we became stuck. The original set-up of the guild was everyone was an officer. Could recruit whomever they wanted. Now all but 3 have been demoted to member. We have a freeze on recruiting, now at 35 accounts and are flying back up the levels.

That bites, imho, part of the reasoning behind guilds was to give new players a resource, surrogate family if you will, to learn the game, get free gear and advice. I've had lengthy discussion with other guild leaders who agree that small is the only way to go. Keep it small or else. The truely great guilds then have to suffer for being, great. I'm looking at you Pay It Forward (you rock, btw).

A previous poster commented about standing at the bank in Harbor. I used to get blind invites on my mule constantly. Very rarely anymore. Even the spammer guilds are starting to figure it out I guess.

You can say "just play the game". Unfortunately, guild leveling is now part of "the game". I like it for the joy of getting new ships, new amenities, a place to hang out with guildies. And you have to admit, some of the higher amenities are really nice. Who wouldn't want an Altar of Devastation or a major experience shrine on their ship?

Side note, players used to drop at 6 months inactive, I now have a couple that are going on 7 months and haven't dropped. New bug or wai?

[mudfud]

You can say "just play the game". Unfortunately, guild leveling is now part of "the game". I like it for the joy of getting new ships, new amenities, a place to hang out with guildies. And you have to admit, some of the higher amenities are really nice. Who wouldn't want an Altar of Devastation or a major experience shrine on their ship?

Since the game has been free to play it brought in many different types of people. From the casual to the disgruntled WoW people. To say that guild leveling is part of the game shows that 1 aspect you are missing but mentioned. Play the game how 'you' want to, don't make an issue of guild levels/renown there won't be an issue. The same thing was said when pvp came and it's going to be said in any case. The guild level/renown/ ships is such a small part of the game where if people are so focused on that you are missing the game.

Or to put it a different way, why worry about other guilds or other people. Worry about 'yourselves' more.

[Sarisa]

I'll explain, the largest guild on Sarlona has 9 members. I'm sure they are all active power players.

The top two guilds by renown used a number of "tricks" to exploit the system. They did not earn renown the way Eternal Wrath or the other top guilds earned it, by completing high end content with a lot of chests. You can tell because both have radically different growth curves in Vanshilar's Tables.

Note that a number of those "tricks" are no longer possible due to changes in update 9, patch 1 because of these two guilds extreme and VISIBLE gains.

[BOgre]

Okay I'm confused. Why is the modified size of the guild listed above equal to the # of active accounts - # of innactive accounts? Wouldn't it be 616 total accounts - # inactive accounts = # of active accounts = modified size of guild...

You don't actually get a guild renown bonus for having more people in your guild who are not playing the game right?

Pretty sure the formula is:

Total accounts - inactive + recent departures = modified size
But I'm also pretty sure if your modified guild size is above 50 you won't get a bonus anyways.

mouseing over the guild size in game says the Formula is: Active - inactive + departed
DDOWiki say the formula is: total - ...

Anyone to confirm?

[QueenPennyThe1st]

Yes you too can purchase the new Guild Renown Elixer!! Get 75% more guild renown for your guild and be the life of the party!!!!
This is pathitic.....instead of fixing the system they have invented a way to get more money for something they can systematicly take away from the players with renown decay......

Woud you like fries with that?