Bluff Buff? U9 Build Advice Please

[LoneVandal]

Hi there, I'm trying to make a "classic rogue" that is good at traps, sneaking, and SAs. Supposedly Bluff is now a really good skill since U9?

The 2 builds I was using as a reference were:

Human
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php...20#post1302420

Drow / Halfling
http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...13&postcount=5

I'm wondering, would it greatly benefit these builds to max Bluff now?

The change to SA +dex mod for Thief Acrobat intrigues me as well. Does the Dex mod buff compensate enough to make up for only using 1 weapon?

I'm further confused on the Thief Acrobat builds because they recommend maxing Str and not Dex, but I thought the point of TA was that you were really hard to hit (AC from Dex? Or is it just impossible for a pure Rogue to have respectable AC, so they ignored Dex for that?)

I guess I just don't get the point of the TA in general, if forum opinion is to be believed they're just like Assassins who are bad at sneaking and have to use a bad weapon, thereby doing less damage?

[Ystradmynach]

Bluff does come in handy when you are soloing or trying to lose aggro, allowing you to get a few sneak attacks in. And honestly what else are you going to spend your skill points on? Search, spot, dd, open locks, umd, jump/tumble, balance, that still leaves one more skill you can max, leaving bluff as your best option here.

As for acrobats, assassins out-dps them, so if you are just looking for what does the most damage, I'd go with assassin. Acrobats usually end up being multi-classed with monk as well, since quarterstaffs are ki weapons.

[Jaid314]

Hi there, I'm trying to make a "classic rogue" that is good at traps, sneaking, and SAs. Supposedly Bluff is now a really good skill since U9?

well, it's better than before. it also allows useful tactics, like pulling individual monsters. understand that previously it was an absolutely terrible skill, whereas now it's not a complete waste. you could do just fine without it, but i do think it's a good idea to have the skill if you have room for it.

The 2 builds I was using as a reference were:

Human
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php...20#post1302420

Drow / Halfling
http://forums.ddo.com/showpost.php?p...13&postcount=5

I'm wondering, would it greatly benefit these builds to max Bluff now?

for the human build, you might consider investing a little bit less in jump (you can get by with +10 for most situations), haggle (convenient, but not needed), and balance (only 15 is needed, that build has 19). for the drow build, don't max out tumble (if you eat a +2 int tome at 7, you can go back to putting points in tumble again), instead max out bluff. it is a very useful skill for if you pull aggro, as it not only allows you to sneak attack but actually makes the target turn around (which usually involves stopping their attempts to rip your guts out through your nose) for a second or so. this can easily be the difference between catching a mass heal before harry kills you, or keeping sully from cursing you at a really bad time, etc... but obviously, only if you succeed. i have found that with minimal investment on my assassin (i think i have 9 base cha), succeeding is fairly likely on the majority of targets.

The change to SA +dex mod for Thief Acrobat intrigues me as well. Does the Dex mod buff compensate enough to make up for only using 1 weapon?

no, not really. but it does look wicked cool. and it's not going to be terrible or anything, just not nearly as good as TWF.

I'm further confused on the Thief Acrobat builds because they recommend maxing Str and not Dex, but I thought the point of TA was that you were really hard to hit (AC from Dex? Or is it just impossible for a pure Rogue to have respectable AC, so they ignored Dex for that?)

do you like hitting things? do you like doing more damage? do you like being able to use more than 2 weapons effectively in the entire game (note: not two weapon types, two specific weapons)? if so, then dex-based rogue acrobat quarterstaff builds are not for you. dex-based is a bad idea because it means you will have a very low to-hit; you cannot use weapon finesse on a quarterstaff, and while there are 2 named quarterstaves in the game (3 if you count the epic version of one of them) that use dex for both to-hit and damage. even then, there's the fact that you will want the THF fighting feats (which have a strength requirement) to get a bit more damage.

basically, at present it's not a good idea to make a dex-based quarterstaff build. it would mean giving up the ability to effectively use: the souleater, the dreamspitter, the staff of shadows (and augmented versions), rahl's might, all greensteel (including min II, lit II, and rad II among others), and probably the majority of any future quarterstaff named drops in the future. it also means you can forget about using a crafted quarterstaff made under the new system. and any random lootgen ones as well.

I guess I just don't get the point of the TA in general, if forum opinion is to be believed they're just like Assassins who are bad at sneaking and have to use a bad weapon, thereby doing less damage?

well, no. they're not bad at sneaking. and they're not forced to use a quarterstaff (in fact, there are apparently a fair number of TWF acrobat rogues that just want the knockdown immunity). but basically, yes... if you want to have the best DPS, don't be an acrobat, and especially don't be a quarterstaff-using acrobat. acrobats are the best at using quarterstaffs, but not by any means the best DPS you can get in a rogue.

[Dirichlet]

Bluff is very nice these days. I use it a lot. If you wanted to fit it in to a pre-U9 build without taking more Int then you can use it as a replacement for Diplomacy. It gives a -threat buff so it's still useful in groups, though Diplo is a bit better for that. You can perhaps take both, but that is a lot of skill points. It's personal preference really. If you solo or small group a lot, I'd definitely consider it.

Even in groups it's one of my favourite utility buttons. Bluffing a caster or archer from afar, even during combat, will cause them to run towards you thus 1. getting them in to melee range, and 2. stopping them from dealing any damage for a few seconds. Under the right circumstances I'm pretty much using it on cooldown.

The point of TA is *fun* first and foremost. Check out the Big F'n Stick thread (http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=158960) for more info.

The Dex mod is a nice extra, but it isn't the core of your damage. Str adds damage both when you're sneak attacking and when you're not, so it's the superior dps stat. But given a moderate 14 base Dex with +3 Enhancements, +6 item and +1 tome or airship, that's a +7 damage mod on your SAs for very little cost, with the potential to take it a lot higher.

Worthwhile AC won't be reachable on a pure Acrobat. Many multiclass with at least one Monk level, which gives you a much higher potential. Pure is best for raw damage.

Generally, an Acrobat won't match an Assassin for damage, but played right the difference isn't huge. A portion of the deficit is made up, so I understand, because there are a number of quite OP sticks in the game.

[LoneVandal]

I ended up making a Human and taking your suggestions, thank you!

[Thaxlsillyia]

the halfling cunning/guile stuff increases your bluff along with SA... so from a bluff point of view ihalfling with give higher score.