Dragonmarks: One to rule them all

[AcesWylde]

Functionally similar to taking levels in Dragonmarked Heir.

Functionally similar to taking prestige enhancements in Dragonmarked Heir?

If dragonmarks were left as they are...

Dragonmark of Healing (House Jorasco)
The halflings of House Jorasco bear the Mark of Healing and operate the Healers Guild.

FEATS
Least Dragonmark of Healing
Requirements: Halfling, Level 1
The bloodline of House Jorasco bestows on you a +2 bonus to your Heal skill. Activate this ability to cast Cure Light Wounds three times per rest. (Least Dragonmark of Healing are effected by the metamagic feats: Empower, Maximize, Empower Heal, Quicken, and Enlarge)

Lesser Dragonmark of Healing -
Requirements: Halfling, Level 6
Activate this ability to harness the bloodline of House Jorasco to cast Cure Serious Wounds two times per rest. Also allows you to use your Least Mark of Healing an extra time per rest. (Lesser Dragonmark of Healing are effected by the metamagic feats: Empower, Maximize, Empower Heal, Quicken, and Enlarge)

Greater Dragonmark of Healing
Requirements: Halfling, Level 9
Activate this ability to harness the bloodline of House Jorasco to cast Heal once per rest. Also allows you to use your Least and Lesser Marks of Healing an extra time per rest. (Greater Dragonmark of Healing are effected by the metamagic feats: Empower Heal, Quicken, Enlarge, and Heighten)

What might the Dragonmark Heir Prc enhancements look like?

ENHANCEMENTS
Jorasco Dragonmark Heir I (2 AP)
Requirements: Halfling, Level 6, Least Dragonmark of Healing, Extra Dragonmark Use II, Jorasco Healing II (7 AP investment)
Benefits: Lesser Dragonmark of Healing (feat) - Activate this ability to harness the bloodline of House Jorasco to cast Cure Serious Wounds two times per rest. Also allows you to use your Least Mark of Healing an extra time per rest
Favored of House Jorasco - As a Dragonmarked Heir of House Jorasco, you gain a 10% bonus to any transactions with any of the vendors located in House Jorasco.

Improved Least Dragonmark of Healing (1 AP)
Requirements: Halfling, Level 8, Jorasco Dragonmark Heir I, Jorasco Healing III (9 AP investment)
Benefit: Activate this ability to harness the bloodline of House Jorasco to cast Lesser Restoration instead of Cure Light Wounds (counts as a use of your Least Dragonmark of Healing), and grants an additional use of your Least Dragonmark of Healing per rest.

Jorasco Dragonmark Heir II (2 AP)
Requirements: Halfling, Level 10, Jorasco Dragonmark Heir I, Extra Dragonmark Use III, Jorasco Healing III (14 AP investment)
Benefit: Greater Dragonmark of Healing (feat) - Activate this ability to harness the bloodline of House Jorasco to cast Heal once per rest. Also allows you to use your Least and Lesser Marks of Healing an extra time per rest.

Improved Lesser Dragonmark of Healing (1 AP)
Requirements: Halfling, Level 12, Improved Least Dragonmark of Healing, Jorasco Dragonmark Heir II, Jorasco Healing IV (16 AP investment)
Benefit: Activate this ability to harness the bloodline of House Jorasco to cast Restoration instead of Cure Serious Wounds (counts as a use of your Lesser Dragonmark of Healing), and grants an additional use of your Lesser Dragonmark of Healing per rest.

Jorasco Dragonmark Heir III (2 AP)
Requirements: Halfling, Level 14, Jorasco Dragonmark Heir II, Extra Dragonmark Use IV, Jorasco Healing IV (22 AP investment)
Benefit: Empowered Dragonmarks - Your Least, Lesser, and Greater Dragonmarks of Healing are automatically treated as if Emowered. Also allows you to use your Least, Lesser, and Greater Marks of Healing an extra time per rest.

Improved Greater Dragonmark of Healing (1 AP)
Requirements: Halfling, Level 16, Improved Lesser Dragonmark of Healing, Jorasco Dragonmark Heir III, Jorasco Healing V (24 AP investment)
Benefit: Activate this ability to harness the bloodline of House Jorasco to cast Greater Restoration instead ofHeal (counts as a use of your Greater Dragonmark of Healing), and grants an additional use of your Greater Dragonmark of Healing per rest.

Siberys Dragonmark of Healing (2AP)
Requirements: Halfling, Level 18, Jorasco Dragonmark Heir III (26 AP investment)
Benefit: Activate this ability to harness the bloodline of House Jorasco to cast Mass Heal once per rest. Also allows you to use your Least, Lesser, and Greater Marks of Healing an extra time per rest.
(Note that Extra Dragonmark Use only increases useage of Least, Lesser, and Greater Dragonmarks)

(And, yes I know I've slightly merged the Dragonmark Heir and Heir of Siberys prestige classes, shame on me)

And, thanks for the neg rep, I wasn't aware that not agreeing with someone was considered Inflammatory, Derogatory, Disruptive, Trolling, or violates community guidelines. Thanks for the heads up, at least now I know (and knowing is half the battle, lol)

[Symar-FangofLloth]

Yes. Taking the appropriate Dragonmarked Heir Paragon Path in 4e is functionally similar to taking the Dragonmarked Heir Prestige Class in 3.5. Not identical, not a one-to-one mapping, or anything. Just similar.
That's all I was saying. Sorry for being off topic, but I kinda do that a lot.

Of course, since you mentioned it, Prestige Enhancements in DDO are closer to a Paragon Path than a real Prestige Class, because you maintain your base class the entire time, and its abilities still progress regardless of your PrE. Sure, they can modify some features, but a lot of it is new abilities granted. It's interesting to look at DDO as the 'missing link' or hybrid between 3.5 and 4.


Back on topic, I said it earlier that, give or take some, your suggestion on Dragonmarked Heir is how I'd like to see it done.


(And I know things don't translate well, but your initial News Flash implied to me that you were just willing to throw out anything you didn't think could work without even looking at it. Or that you were willing to change things that aught not to be changed if only for flavor's sake (like granting the Siberys Mark as a Tier 4 when it's an independent feature). If that's wrong, my apologies. But that's why I News Flashed back at you. And I'm fairly positive that it was not I who neg-repped you, as I have just acquired enough rep to be able to in the past couple weeks and only have done it a couple of times. If you feel your post was undeserving, you can report your post and ask for the reputation on it to be reviewed.)

[AcesWylde]

(And I know things don't translate well, but your initial News Flash implied to me that you were just willing to throw out anything you didn't think could work without even looking at it. Or that you were willing to change things that aught not to be changed if only for flavor's sake.

I'm not sure why you would assume that, but it's certainly your prerogative to believe so, and I apologize if I came across to strongly. My statement was in response to the following:

the problem with this is if u have a least,lesser,or greater dragon mark siberys marks are locked out to you.

This.

Oh, and (in tabletop) Player Characters CAN take the Siberys Marks, but it's a Prestige Class. And you can't have any other Dragonmarks before you enter the class.

(like granting the Siberys Mark as a Tier 4 when it's an independent feature).

This seems to be the part that bothers you for some reason. I did indeed look at the Heir of Siberys Prc, but don't see how it would translate well to DDO, and thought that it wouldn't be too much of a stretch to merge the two together. DDO cannot in many cases follow PnP rules in an efficient manner, so sometimes things have to be adjusted accordingly, though maybe you're right and this isn't one of them.

You seem to be very knowledgeable on the subject. How would you translate the Dragonmarked Heir and Heir of Siberys to DDO?
(highlighted so you see this, I'm interested on your take on this, or anyone else for that matter)

And I'm fairly positive that it was not I who neg-repped you.

No worries, it's a learning experience, lol

[somenewnoob]

I have a human fighter, lots of feats, and I did consider it for awhile but went with extra toughness feats instead and quick draw. Just not enough bang for the buck for 3 feats. IF it was one feat that included all 3, I probably would have taken it.

[Seikojin]

I do consider dragonmarks worthwhile in some builds. Shadow would be useful for those who like to stealth rush quests.

No matter the class, one of my characters will expend 3 feats to get greater finding.

[Symar-FangofLloth]

Personally, I'd skip the Siberys Mark.
They're great and all, but I don't see a Player Character that's "lucky" enough to be gifted with a Siberys Mark to be able to break free from their house and go running amok at the far reaches of the world, especially here in Xen'drik.
I feel they would better fit in a more political campaign, or at least one that's set on Khorvaire where regular interaction with their house would be possible.

The house wards in Stormreach don't really count, IMO, because they're still a minor part of the house in a far flung settlement. They just happen to have enough influence and presence that they have some say over a small portion of the city. (And I'll be all grumbly if the upcoming Cannith sector is a new city ward. There are ways they could add it that won't make me grumble, but that's off-topic.)

Now, granted, it's up to your DM and all (if this were tabletop) and maybe you're some sort of renegade Siberys Marked or powerful enough your house is willing to risk you running around, but I'd imagine in most cases they would want you kept safe and where they could use you.


TheDjinnFor's idea of the Siberys Mark is an interesting one, though, having it be a capstone that's independent of Dragonmarked Heir, yet still a 'Tier Four' to the marks.
I would personally still rather skip over it.

Reading over TheDjinnFor's option of granting the feat, or if you have it gaining extra uses, seems like an optimal choice for that as well, although I'd change the costs to more like 2/3/3, since the higher tiers are stronger than the lower.

AcesWylde, I think your option of taking the Siberys Mark as a t4 and having it locking out all other marks is actually a very bad idea, as (for your example) you just spent 1 feat and 8 AP for a +2 to AC and True Seeing. 11 AP if you spent it on improvements, although you should respec out of those if you were going Siberys anyway.

[AcesWylde]

No matter the class, one of my characters will expend 3 feats to get greater finding.

I've heard it's pretty well useless without a decent Charisma. I usually see it on bards, though sorc and fvs, may be an option if you want to give up some metas.

[TheDjinnFor]

You seem to be very knowledgeable on the subject. How would you translate the Dragonmarked Heir and Heir of Siberys to DDO?
(highlighted so you see this, I'm interested on your take on this, or anyone else for that matter)

I'd do it as a hybrid PrE/feat chain. Least as a pre-req for the PrE, and taking the enhancements gets you Lesser and Greater for free (or gives you extra uses of your existing feats). If you have both the Lesser and Greater taken as feats already, you can take Siberys at 20.

Note that the Siberys 'capstone' is distinct from the PrE and the feats; the Siberys capstone stacks with the PrE, sure, but it requires all three feats to be taken and doesn't require the PrE to be taken. This is to make the dragonmark fairly flexible: you can take the feat, the PrE and the capstone if you want, or you can just take the feats and the capstone, or just the PrE, so it benefits AP-stretched builds that took the feats by giving them extra uses and the capstone, and it benefits feat stretched builds by allowing them to mimic much of the power of the feats by spending AP.

So like this:

Jorasco Halfling Dragonmark Heir I - 4 AP
Requires: Level 6 Halfling, Least Dragonmark of Healing, xxx AP spent.
As a dragonmark heir of House Jorasco, you have a particular knack for healing, granting you an additional +2 bonus to your heal skill. You can manifest the powers of your Least dragonmark three more times per rest. You are favored amongst the members of House Jorasco, enhancing your relationships and dealings with members of it.

Grants the following:

Member of House Jorasco - As a Dragonmarked member of House Jorasco, your effective renown with house Jorasco is increased by 25 (does not increase total renown, does not factor in to the TP bonus). This renown bonus works towards your total renown level, granting you the benefits that the House bestows sooner that non-members.

Jorasco Halfling Dragonmark Heir II - 2 AP
Requires: Level 12 Halfling, Jorasco Halfling Dragonmark Heir I, xxx AP spent.
As a dragonmark heir of House Jorasco, you have a particular knack for healing, granting you an additional +2 bonus to your heal skill. You can produce the curative or restorative effect of the Lesser Dragonmark twice per rest (or you add an additional two uses to your existing Lesser Dragonmark of Healing, if you have one). You are favored amongst the members of House Jorasco, enhancing your relationships and dealings with members of it.

Grants the following:

Favored of House Jorasco - As a Dragonmarked member of House Jorasco, you gain a 5% bonus to any transactions with any of the vendors located in House Jorasco. Your effective renown is increase by a further 25, bringing the total to 50.

Lesser Dragonmark of Healing - Activate this ability to harness the bloodline of House Jorasco to cast Cure Serious Wounds or Restoration two times per rest. (Lesser Dragonmark of Healing are effected by the metamagic feats: Empower, Maximize, Empower Heal, Quicken, and Enlarge)

Jorasco Halfling Dragonmark Heir III - 2 AP
Requires: Level 18 Halfling, Jorasco Halfling Dragonmark Heir II, xxx AP spent.
As a dragonmark heir of House Jorasco, you have a particular knack for healing, granting you an additional +2 bonus to your heal skill. You can produce the curative or restorative effect of the Greater Dragonmark once per rest (or you add an additional use to your existing Greater Dragonmark of Healing). Your Least and Lesser Marks of Healing are now considered Empowered.

Grants the following:

Greater Dragonmark of Healing - Activate this ability to harness the bloodline of House Jorasco to cast Heal or Greater Restoration once per rest. (Greater Dragonmark of Healing are effected by the metamagic feats: Empower Heal, Quicken, Enlarge, and Heighten)

Siberys Dragonmark of Healing - 2 AP
Requires: 20 Halfling, Greater Dragonmark of Healing, xxx AP spent
- Your pure bloodline allows you to fully manifest the powers of a Dragonmarked Heir, granting you great favor within the House and boosting your abilities. You gain an additional +2 bonus to your Heal skill, bringing the total to +8. This allows you to use your Least, Lesser, and Greater Marks of Healing an extra time per rest. Your Least and Lesser Marks of Healing are now considered Maximized (instead of Empowered).

Grants the following:

Leader of House Jorasco - As a Siberys Dragonmarked Heir of House Jorasco, you gain an additional 5% bonus to any transactions with any of the vendors located in House Jorasco. Your effective renown is increase by a further 25.

Siberys Dragonmark of Healing - Activate this ability to harness the bloodline of House Jorasco to cast Mass Heal once per rest. (Siberys Dragonmark of Healing is effected by the metamagic feats Empower Heal, Quicken, Enlarge, and Heighten).

Master of Healing: - Your effective and maximum caster level while casting any positive energy (healing) spell is increased by one, including spell-like abilities and all of your Dragonmarks.

The effects of Siberys and Master for the other houses is up for debate, of course, but I would think that most of them would be fairly obvious anyways.

[AcesWylde]

No matter the class, one of my characters will expend 3 feats to get greater finding.

Got me thinking about the Tharashk Dragonmark Heir

Dragonmark of Finding (House Tharashk)
House Tharashk, a family of humans and half-orcs who originated in the Shadow Marches, run House Tharashk and control the Finders Guild. The guild employs all manners of investigators, law enforcement agents as well as treasure and dragonshard hunters. Bounty hunters are also employeed by the guild and rumors hold that secret assassins are also on the pay roll for particularly hard to find enemies. Members of the house without dragonmarks are often mundane but highly skilled investigators as well as prospectors and guides.

FEATS
Least Dragonmark of Finding
Requirements: Human or Half-Orc, Level 1
The bloodline of House Tharashk bestows on you a +2 bonus to your Search skill. Activate this ability to harness the bloodline of House Tharashk to Locate Objects three times per rest. Locate Objects allows you to target a breakable object and find something temporary (but potentially useful) within it when it is broken.

Lesser Dragonmark of Finding
Requirements: Human or Half-Orc, Level 6
Activate this ability to harness the bloodline of House Tharashk to cast Knock two times per rest. Also allows you to use your Least Mark of Finding an extra time per rest. Knock unlocks any lock which could be picked by a sufficiently skilled rogue.

Greater Dragonmark of Finding
Requirements: Human or Half-Orc, Level 9
Activate this ability to harness the bloodline of House Tharashk to cast Treasure Finding once per rest. Also allows you to use your Least and Lesser Marks of Finding an extra time per rest. Treasure Finding lets you target an unopened chest and twist fate for a chance at better rewards for the entire party. Chests can only be improved in this way one time, and there is a chance of failure based on your Charisma. (There is no special drawback on failure.) Some chests cannot be improved in this manner. This ability stacks with the store item Jewels of Fortune and the Bonus Loot events put on by the devs. It cannot raise the level of the chest above 23.

What might the Tharashk Dragonmark Heir Prc enhancements look like?

ENHANCEMENTS
Tharashk Dragonmark Heir I (2 AP)
Requirements: Human or Half-Orc, Level 6, Least Dragonmark of Finding, Extra Dragonmark Use II, Tharashk Search II (7 AP investment)
Benefits: Lesser Dragonmark of Finding (feat) - Activate this ability to harness the bloodline of House Tharashk to cast Knock two times per rest. Also allows you to use your Least Mark of Finding an extra time per rest.
Favored of House Tharashk - As a Dragonmarked Heir of House Tharashk, you gain a 10% bonus to any transactions with any of the vendors located in House Tharashk (substitute the Harbor?)

Improved Least Dragonmark of Finding (1 AP)
Requirements: Human or Half-Orc, Level 8, Tharashk Dragonmark Heir I, Tharashk Search III (9 AP investment)
Benefit: Activate this ability to harness the bloodline of House Tharashk to cast Detect Secret Doors instead of Locate Objects (counts as a use of your Least Dragonmark of Finding), and grants an additional use of your Least Dragonmark of Finding per rest.

Tharashk Dragonmark Heir II (2 AP)
Requirements: Human or Half-Orc, Level 10, Tharashk Dragonmark Heir I, Extra Dragonmark Use III, Tharashk Search III (14 AP investment)
Benefit: Greater Dragonmark of Finding (feat) - Activate this ability to harness the bloodline of House Tharashk to cast Treasure Finding once per rest. Also allows you to use your Least and Lesser Marks of Finding an extra time per rest.

Improved Lesser Dragonmark of Finding (1 AP)
Requirements: Human or Half-Orc, Level 12, Improved Least Dragonmark of Finding, Tharashk Dragonmark Heir II, Tharashk Search IV (16 AP investment)
Benefit: Activate this ability to harness the bloodline of House Tharashk to cast Helping Hand instead of Knock (counts as a use of your Lesser Dragonmark of Finding), and grants an additional use of your Lesser Dragonmark of Finding per rest. Helping Hand finds a random creature (max CR bassed on CL) to fight by your side.

Tharashk Dragonmark Heir III (2 AP)
Requirements: Human or Half-Orc, Level 14, Tharashk Dragonmark Heir II, Extra Dragonmark Use IV, Tharashk Search IV (22 AP investment)
Benefit: Empowered Dragonmarks - Your Least, Lesser, and Greater Dragonmarks of Finding are automatically treated as if Heightened. Also allows you to use your Least, Lesser, and Greater Marks of Finding an extra time per rest.

Improved Greater Dragonmark of Finding (1 AP)
Requirements: Human or Half-Orc, Level 16, Improved Lesser Dragonmark of Finding, Tharashk Dragonmark Heir III, Tharashk Search V (24 AP investment)
Benefit: Activate this ability to harness the bloodline of House Tharashk to cast Find the Path instead of Treasure Finding (counts as a use of your Greater Dragonmark of Finding), and grants an additional use of your Greater Dragonmark of Finding per rest. Find the Path hopefully teleports you to the nearest teleport location, although there is a sight chance of getting lost (ie teleported to a random location instead.

Siberys Dragonmark of Finding (2AP)
Requirements: Human or Half-Orc, Level 18, Tharashk Dragonmark Heir III (26 AP investment)
Benefit: Activate this ability to harness the bloodline of House Tharashk to cast Vigilance once per rest, this special ability grants the effects of True Seeing and Foresight, which grants a +2 stackable Insight bonus to AC and Reflex saves.
(Note that taking a Siberys Dragonmark nulifies your ability to use Least, Lesser, and Greater Dragonmarks)

[Symar-FangofLloth]

Personally, I'd skip the Siberys Mark.
They're great and all, but I don't see a Player Character that's "lucky" enough to be gifted with a Siberys Mark to be able to break free from their house and go running amok at the far reaches of the world, especially here in Xen'drik.
I feel they would better fit in a more political campaign, or at least one that's set on Khorvaire where regular interaction with their house would be possible.

The house wards in Stormreach don't really count, IMO, because they're still a minor part of the house in a far flung settlement. They just happen to have enough influence and presence that they have some say over a small portion of the city. (And I'll be all grumbly if the upcoming Cannith sector is a new city ward. There are ways they could add it that won't make me grumble, but that's off-topic.)

Now, granted, it's up to your DM and all (if this were tabletop) and maybe you're some sort of renegade Siberys Marked or powerful enough your house is willing to risk you running around, but I'd imagine in most cases they would want you kept safe and where they could use you.


TheDjinnFor's idea of the Siberys Mark is an interesting one, though, having it be a capstone that's independent of Dragonmarked Heir, yet still a 'Tier Four' to the marks.
I would personally still rather skip over it.

Reading over TheDjinnFor's option of granting the feat, or if you have it gaining extra uses, seems like an optimal choice for that as well, although I'd change the costs to more like 2/3/3, since the higher tiers are stronger than the lower.

AcesWylde, I think your option of taking the Siberys Mark as a t4 and having it locking out all other marks is actually a very bad idea, as (for your example) you just spent 1 feat and 8 AP for a +2 to AC and True Seeing. 11 AP if you spent it on improvements, although you should respec out of those if you were going Siberys anyway.

Okay, that's the oddest Ninja I've ever done. I seriously posted it 5 minutes before this quote, or less. Not 5 hours ago.

[karnokvolrath]

I had a fighter monk ranger mutt thingy that had the halfling dmarks. He was alot of fun to play and very survivable, but when tempest got the nerf-bat he just grew stale in my mouth.

Imo the halfling one is awsome if you can afford it, the others...meh.

[varusso]

Dragonmarks suck in the current implementation. Period. The racial component already limits their usefulness in any given build (though in THEORY it would increase the appeal of that particular race over another). Costing feats simply does not work; it reduces the appeal too much, because the advantages they give simply arent enough to make it worth it. The healing DM is cool, the DDoor DM is decent, and the Loot DM would be nice -- if you could actually get anyone else in a non-static group to WAIT before opening a chest. Making them cost AP instead only causes a shortage in a different area: AP. Just as many builds cant afford the AP as cant afford the feats.

DMs simply are not worth it. I honestly dont think I could name 5 non-noob players who actually have one or more DMs on their toon. Even less who are satisfied with their usefulness vs investment. Feats that are so universally UNDESIRABLE need a rehash. They are already restricted enough by racial requirements. Just give them to the players who do the quest to unlock them. Bump them back in the levels, making them available later instead. Perhaps have to do a quest to unlock each one.

As for their part in the lore of the game -- so what? That has nothing to do with their actual usefulness in a build, esp as compared to the cost. You could run every quest in the game all the way to epic and the marks would not be missed. The only reason I even talk to Lockania anymore is to get a freebie from Fred.

The Helf Dilly is more appealing than the vast majority of the DMs, even the 3rd tier ones. That should say something. And it is free as a racial bonus at creation.

[AcesWylde]

Personally, I'd skip the Siberys Mark.

Especially since it's such a controversial issue. Better left well enough alone.

AcesWylde, I think your option of taking the Siberys Mark as a t4 and having it locking out all other marks is actually a very bad idea, as (for your example) you just spent 1 feat and 8 AP for a +2 to AC and True Seeing. 11 AP if you spent it on improvements, although you should respec out of those if you were going Siberys anyway.

I'm glad we agree

[Rakian_Knight]

Just a thought on the Sibery Marks, why not make them a kind of replacement capstone instead of part of the dragonmark feats since they are different. Have the enhancement cost 2 ap and make it replace a class capstone to take.

For example:

Sibery Dragonmark of Healing (Capstone)
Cost: 2 ap
Requires: Level 20 Halfling, 74 ap spent
Effect: Gives the character the ability to use Mass Heal once per rest as a spell-like ability. This ability counts as a replacement to any class capstone that you could of gained.

I'm not sure if it might be make them too common or if they should offer any other benefits for what they cost. Like I said it was an idea that popped in my head. Have fun with it.

Also just wanted to say I find it funny that almost everyone is using the halfling dragonmark in their examples.

[varusso]

Also just wanted to say I find it funny that almost everyone is using the halfling dragonmark in their examples.

Because it is the only one worth a rat's ass.

[phum]

When they get to improving dragonmarks, I hope they give drow the dragonmark of shadow and warforged the dragonmark of making or make new ones. If they were actually worth the cost, this discrimination isn't to my liking.

I've always found it weird that the mark of shadow is for elves only. Wouldn't it actually be more suitable for drow?

[JasonJi72]

It is all about balancing what you lose with what you gain. No build will ever have everything you want. Dragonmarks are useful for builds that can accommodate them, but you have to make concessions and compensations in your character. It is similar to invoking another level of multi-class.

Yes, you can get the same effects from items, but you don't have to pay for them when you have the dragonmark for what you want, and it is ALWAYS better than using an item.

For example:

Least Sentinel: +2 intimidate, +5 ac. Any human intimitank should at least consider this.

Marks of Finding: Great to have at least one looting haggle-bard on every server.

Elven Invis/displacement: I have found these to be very good for me-lee's, especially rangers (rogues too, but it is harder to fit in). They are also surprisingly good on healers. You do not break invisibility while healing, and just pop a displacement on your favorite non-aggro-managing barbarian; this can save half your mana. Here is a tip, the casters do not watch the red bars as much as you do.

Dimension door: So many uses, it is impossible to cover here.

Teleport: Simply convenient.

Halfling Marks of Healing: Good healing for a race that is already da bomb?! Ohh yeah! Every halfling I have played the healing dm's with has not only doubled it's own survivability, but has also increased the survivability of the group by 40%. You will not get recognition, but you make the healer look like a god. They are also great for permadeath; especially those who cannot buy potions, wands, or scrolls.

To sum it up:

Switching to AP won't work. Action points are too tight already.

Creating a dragonmark capstone would be very fitting, especially considering that you are more likely to multiclass if you take all 3 dragonmarks.

Dragonmarks may not be for everyone, but the true gamers always try to go against the grain, and see if they can unlock some new as yet hidden build. Either that or we just like playing different characters.

Dragonmarks are also very useful for smart newer players who do not have unlimited coin, and all of thier items waiting for them to achieve minimum level in the bank.

Show some love. Things are not always as bad as they seem.

Now the min/maxers will swear this post was written by the devil himself, but to the rest of you... You know what I mean.

Live long and prosper!

[zwiebelring]

If you want to have maximum benefit then you should look for what you gain and is not to be able cover by items.

Teleport is nice to have but only 1 use/rest for a feat? You probably are better of with using scrolls. Exp. Retreat is very nice on all levels and Dim. Door for free is just awesome. I use this on my Bard for a panic button and situations I run out of mana.

Displacement is very useful for melees without dedication to armor class, Invisibility is handy for many things.

The Marks provide overall features which can be more or less useful for some ideas but in the end it is a personal choice and individualization of your character. It is maximum flavor. You cannot have all, if you want to have a Mark just take it and don't care about the +2 to dmg or +20 hit points otherwise gained from taking Toughness.

Melee type characters get profit from most marks in certain ways because they cannot use spells or if then they are limitted. So the Marks can help here.

Casters profit of Marks where they cannot use certain spells, like divine casters profit from Dim. Door and Teleport and Displacement.

All in all the Marks seem more suitable for defensive features so your character will have a lack of offense. But I like them how they are.

[Symar-FangofLloth]

When they get to improving dragonmarks, I hope they give drow the dragonmark of shadow and warforged the dragonmark of making or make new ones. If they were actually worth the cost, this discrimination isn't to my liking.

I've always found it weird that the mark of shadow is for elves only. Wouldn't it actually be more suitable for drow?

No, actually.

Elves, or at least a large subsection of them, are heavily involved in espionage, assassinations, and other acts of subterfuge. If this game were set in Khorvaire we'd see that more, but as it stands there's only a little taste of it in the Carnival pack. And House Phiarlan is more on the diplomacy side of things, with House Thurrani being the better assassins.
Drow, on the other hand, range between primitive jungle tribes, and still trying to live in the glory days of the giant empire (either with or without actual giant overlords).

That, and Dragonmarks only appeared on races on Khorvaire ranging from 1000 to 2500 years ago, give or take. Drow are not on Khorvaire. Warforged are both too young (only existing as a race for about 30 years, less if you count from the time they were given sentient status after the war) and are debatable as to how alive they really are to begin with.

Maybe they should never have introduced drow as a playable race, but I realize it was easy for them to do.