Post-U9 lag

[Lerincho]

Yes, it's a expensive, I work on it too, but I think many problems related to lag can be contributed to machine out-dating.
One dated 10,000 RPM raptor and a couple of 1 TB SS drives.

Hate to break it to you, but Codeshaper would not have started t his thread if it was just a client-based problem. This is a Turbine issue, and has been a Turbine issue.

Do not try to minimalize Turbines involvement in this by just telling people to buy better computers. Turbine did that themselves after the dataserver move that all lag from there on was only client based, the backlash and the evidence pointed in a different direction.

Many of us have been here long enough to know what gameplay options and graphic options to adjust in order to minimalize the client based part lag as much as possible, and we understand that an online game WILL have lag; however, what has been going on since update 9 and the "hotfix" has been across the board for the majority of players. Just ask some of your guildies: Tassy, Rakky, Tsta and they will express some of the same lag issues that everyone else is talking about here.

[Boromirs]

Servers cost money gents... money money money. And honestly unless the population of DDO has grown dramatically this is some other problem. IF the population has grown THAT much then Turbine should really invest in some bandwidth/servers, greed is not always good...because well people can quit.

[Drwaz99]

Hate to break it to you, but Codeshaper would not have started t his thread if it was just a client-based problem. This is a Turbine issue, and has been a Turbine issue.

Do not try to minimalize Turbines involvement in this by just telling people to buy better computers. Turbine did that themselves after the dataserver move that all lag from there on was only client based, the backlash and the evidence pointed in a different direction.

Many of us have been here long enough to know what gameplay options and graphic options to adjust in order to minimalize the client based part lag as much as possible, and we understand that an online game WILL have lag; however, what has been going on since update 9 and the "hotfix" has been across the board for the majority of players. Just ask some of your guildies: Tassy, Rakky, Tsta and they will express some of the same lag issues that everyone else is talking about here.

I apologize if you seem to think that I don't think that there are glaring errors in the coding causing some people to lag., but many of those errors are fixed by client side upgrades but they don't fix the underlying issue.

Many players, especially those over seas, latency is going to be HUGE (and it is coincidental that many of the lag complaints (yes thery have been around forever, just not in this capacity) arose after merging with DDO;EU to the US servers. Tassy is an old great guy with an old computer, had the passing thought already with him, the rest I dunno.

But for me to honestly come in here and not say what is happening on my end, and to just agree with everyone, would just do an injustice. I am one person out of thousands and Codeshaper is more than capable to realize that. In a way, it's like saying: those who have little lag keep quite. That doesn't fly. Not with me.

[Missing_Minds]

Hate to break it to you, but Codeshaper would not have started t his thread if it was just a client-based problem. This is a Turbine issue, and has been a Turbine issue.

Just? No, however, taking the reports they can also gather data on possible client issues to fix other things.

Save for the occasional traffic burps (thanks to all the bored people who think they are gods), madstone boot proficiencies being applied/removed, and the memory leak issue, I know for a fact most all of my lag is pretty much PC based.

I could solve it by putting in another hard drive to separate OS from games. (let alone use a drive faster than 5000 rpm)
I could kill 3rd party overlay systems such as Xfire and Steam.

The only direct client lag they could help to fix right now is to actually release an official program to internal defrag their files like they have done for LOTRO.

[Lerincho]

Just? No, however, taking the reports they can also gather data on possible client issues to fix other things.

.

Did I say it was JUST a Turbine issue? No. I stated that it was not just a client based issue. Therefore BOTH sides have blame; however, Turbine did something in update 9 that caused the issue to be exagerated. Absolutely there is something causing red flags at Turbine, as they did attempt a Hotfix, that even by their own admission did not fix what they thought it would fix.

So quit lecturing me on the different causes of lag, because I know ALL the causes, the one relevant to this thread is the one I am discussing, not ALL the others. Excuse me if this comes off with attitude, but I am tired of people trying to read into something that is not there, and for trying to talk to me like I am an idiot about an issue.

[Cyr]

I apologize if you seem to think that I don't think that there are glaring errors in the coding causing some people to lag., but many of those errors are fixed by client side upgrades but they don't fix the underlying issue.

Yup, it valuable for Turbine to understand the full extent of the various forms of lag. Having responses from people with incredibly nice systems is valuable.

A good developer would realize that client side changes in no way means that their product is working as well as it should be. The differentation between different client side setups could and should provide valuable clues as to what is going wrong. A good developer realizes that their product should work with as wide a variety of software/hardware as possible and should do so in as efficient a manner as reasonably possible.

Codeshaper seems to be taking responsibility for this. Let's keep on giving him data so he can knock out the causes for this lag one by one.

[Drwaz99]

So quit lecturing me on the different causes of lag, because I know ALL the causes, the one relevant to this thread is the one I am discussing, not ALL the others. Excuse me if this comes off with attitude,

If you know what it is (pertaining to this case as you state), Turbine should too. Well, they don't seem to think they have it completely pinned down, so I don't think they do. I agree it's frustrating, but when I can run through a shroud and have NO problems while some people can hardly walk during the same raid at the same time in the same group (same for the Sub in my experience), it's a deeper problem. Yes, you might know how to configure your settings for optimal performance on your machine, many others do not. Additionally, optimal and perfect are two very different words. Very far in meaning.

And saying you know all the causes of lag is a fairly sweeping egotistical statement. I don't think there's any ONE person that knows them all, as, well, there much fewer cases of it and it's list would be the size of a dictionary I'm assuming.

[somenewnoob]

Maybe the lag discussion would be better in another thread, I think the purpose of this thread is just to list cases so the devs can track it down. (puts helmet on and ducks)

[Drwaz99]

Maybe the lag discussion would be better in another thread, I think the purpose of this thread is just to list cases so the devs can track it down. (puts helmet on and ducks)

Yep, your correct. This is a fact finding thread, not any more or any less. Debates should be be left out.

[MrkGrismer]

Lag for me seems to have been related to just a small number of things:

1.) Something changed in the hireling AI, if my cleric hireling has many options I seem to get more 'lag'. So if I charm a lot of things, lag goes up.

2.) AOE spells seem to increase lag. This isn't because of the computer since I'm playing on top-of-the-line. What it seems to be is a matter of how many things the AOE is getting applied to, and overlapping AOE seems to increase this. Ice Storm + Cloudkill can be pretty bad. Firewall in the orchard may turn wights into popcorn but it seems that applying that 'firewall damage' status to each of the enemies is increasing the possibility of lag.

3.) Using any server-wide mechanism: mail, brokers, auction house. I actually had the game kind of 'hang' on removing an item from mail after an expired auction, to the point I decided to log out and back in, but it wouldn't even let me log out. So I did the magic ALT-F4, but then I could not log that character in because I kept getting a message like "could not log in because that character is still in the process of saving". I played a different character for about a half-hour and then could log back in with the first character, with everything fine. But I was worried for a little bit.

[Arnhelm]

I hope this report helps identify the issues in some way. I was getting horrid lag on Khyber. Since I'm not attached to anyone there, I decided to move to Ghallanda where I found so much less lag when I tested other servers.

Worked fine until yesterday when my crafter, Redlohmai, transferred to Ghallanda from Khyber with bags and bank full of items for my other char types. This morning I'm getting the same type of lag I was seeing on Khyber. What I'm seeing most of all is:

1) Bank lag

2) Lag when running, especially through Marketplace and Harbor instances, and quite bad in the corner by Jacobi Alluance in Marketplace

3) Lag in dungeons, and it doesn't matter which dungeon

4) Vendor lag when selling multiple items.

I'm feeling frustration and disappointment right now, especially in light of the transfer fee I paid thinking I would get away from the lag by switching servers. *sigh* The database gods seem angry, and are demanding sacrfices from us all!

Again, I hope this helps identify the issues in some way, and leads to a resolution for everyone in our community.

[Cauthey]

As to the post U9 lag, I have a theory here: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=326298

I could be completely off base. But, since it appears to the community that the devs are still baffled by the lag problem, I would be remiss in not offering this:

The lag spikes are horrible. Just...absolutely...horrible.

Something occured to me the other day when I was doing some item crafting. I was actually putting something together rather than just grinding shards as I usually do.

I was building a bound Flaming Heavy Mace of Pure Good. When I went to the composition machine, I put in the Heavy Mace first. I did the mace first, because that happened to be sitting in my inventory first.

When I did, I may have imagined it, but it seemed as though a lag spike began. It took FOREVER to load recipes for what would fit into the heavy mace.

And then I thought about it. There are probably a poo poo load of recipes that would would be adequate to go into a heavy mace. Still waiting for the spike to end, and also not seeing any recipes show up yet, I pulled the heavy mace out.

Instead, I put the prefix shard in. The recipe came up after the spike seemed to settle.

So, if the query for "what fits into a heavy mace" is a hefty one, I could only imagine what would happen to server side processing time when multiple folks put their disjunctioned item in first.

I know that enterprise level database solutions can handle hundreds of thousands of huge queries, and not even flinch or twitch a muscle. Still, I couldn't help but wonder if the item querying was in some way related to the lag.

Has anyone else witnessed similar behavior when putting in your disjunctioned item first? Devs - could this potentially be the source of the lag? An awkward, somehow unfiltered or ineffecient crafting query when loading crafting recipes running for multiple players at the same time? Thanks all for reading and adding your feedback.

[Alanim]

when opening a crafting device for the first time you get 30,000b/s for roughly 15-20 seconds, and afterwards on the later tries it's for 3-5 seconds, could this possibly be causing the lag on the servers, since the crafting halls almost always have 3+ instances?

[Arnhelm]

After a couple of days, I've also noticed the mouse-wheel error is occurring more often since I transferred my crafter. Bleh...

[morticianjohn]

Since update 10 I haven't noticed the lag as much as the time between update 9-10. However, last night some people in my group were complaining of lag while running missing. I didn't notice it at the time. However, later in the quest I started noticing some lag. We had a couple of people DC at different times throughout the quest then after the quest was over, I got disconnected from the chat server for about 10-20 seconds. Then when I came back the rest of my party disconnected. Also my daughter's party (she was sitting next to me) disconnected and it seemed like some players disconnected in the lobster (from what we could tell) where she was hanging out.

Cannith server at approximately 10 pm.

I then went on to run delara's chain with no further issues.

[Xenostrata]

You probably already know this, but the entire server of khyber was disconnected last night for about a minute.

Also, last sunday in Delera's part two, We were hit with an odd kind of lag that kept us from moving, but we could all still comunicate in the chat box. After about 3 minutes, the qhole group got a "your client has crashed message", leading me to believe that it was not the client's fault (what are the odds of 6 people all crashing independently?).

One last thing. Did any other server get completely disconnected last night, or was it just khyber? I see from the post above mine that cannith was also a victim.

[Cauthey]

You probably already know this, but the entire server of khyber was disconnected last night for about a minute.

Also, last sunday in Delera's part two, We were hit with an odd kind of lag that kept us from moving, but we could all still comunicate in the chat box. After about 3 minutes, the qhole group got a "your client has crashed message", leading me to believe that it was not the client's fault (what are the odds of 6 people all crashing independently?).

One last thing. Did any other server get completely disconnected last night, or was it just khyber? I see from the post above mine that cannith was also a victim.

Orien crashed or disconnected all users around 10PM. I posted a thread about it here: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=326648

Based on your post, the previous post, and my thread (Khyber, Cannith, and Orien), that sounds pretty "global." May have not been lag related, though.

[donfilibuster]

We are all wrong, the lag is nothing but D&D being alive and trying to return to being a turn based game.

[Dragavon]

The lag has only been getting worse since the last patch

[Khellendros13]

I get the feeling that half or all of the servers are virtual machines on 1 physical server. No idea if I am right or not but I just get that "feeling".