Please forgive me for rolling a tank :D

[willemvh]

Hey all,

as you can see i am rolling a "tank" now i have come across manny versions of "tanks" and i want to attempt to build the best possible allround s&b tank.

So please no trolling about what you think is best (hate tank, ac tank, monster tanks etc) but just try and help build up the best possible s&b tank.
Also some of the questions will be a mater of personal opinion, i will try to list both options if needed but in general i will take what 51% of the people say

To help gather all the feedback and direct that the best way i can. I will post a number of questions that can be used as a sort of guide system.
So if you post feedback, ideas, settups please relate to the correct question number or "subtopic" number and i will update correctly.

Topics.
col
1 fighter VS paladin what to pick and why to pick it ?
pros:
More flexability, more to hit bonus, more strength
cons:
Less self survivability, even more item intensive

Paladin
pros:
Self heals, higher saves, can use almost any weapon and can use any epic weapon as a dr breaker
cons:
lower hp, less flexability

2 Races is one more OP then the other ?
Warforged are op because of immunities and can be repaired + healed and have better intimidate and the most hp
Half Elves have 2 intimidate timers!
Humans have higher healing amp IMPORTANT FOR A TANK
Dwarves are better with shields
Halflings have better ac
Other option is half orc for pure threat tank

3 Builds & feats "to use or not to use" !

4 weapons & gear (Q&A)

5 varia

To kickstart this treath i shall post my current build i am testing out and lvling in and i will post some questions

current build (just a quick mock up in char planner to give you a general idea, level by level build incomming soon)

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.9.1
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 Neutral Good Human Male
(20 Fighter) 
Hit Points: 372
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
Fortitude: 16
Reflex: 8
Will: 6

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(34 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             16                    26
Dexterity            12                    14
Constitution         16                    18
Intelligence         12                    14
Wisdom                8                     8
Charisma             14                    16

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               1                    12
Bluff                 2                     3
Concentration         3                     4
Diplomacy             2                     3
Disable Device        n/a                   n/a
Haggle                2                     3
Heal                 -1                    -1
Hide                  1                     2
Intimidate            6                    46
Jump                  7                    31
Listen               -1                    -1
Move Silently         1                     2
Open Lock             n/a                   n/a
Perform               n/a                   n/a
Repair                1                     2
Search                1                     2
Spot                 -1                    -1
Swim                  3                     9
Tumble                3                    10
Use Magic Device      4                    14

Level 1 (Fighter)
Skill: Intimidate (+4)
Skill: Jump (+4)
Skill: Tumble (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Fighter
Feat: (Human Bonus) Skill Focus: Intimidate
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Class Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I


Level 2 (Fighter)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Bastard Sword
Enhancement: Fighter Item Defense I
Enhancement: Improved Intimidate I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I


Level 3 (Fighter)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Least Dragonmark of Sentinel
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Mastery I
Enhancement: Fighter Tower Shield Mastery I


Level 4 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Shield Mastery
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Class Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost II


Level 5 (Fighter)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Improved Intimidate II


Level 6 (Fighter)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Two Handed Fighting
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Fighter Stalwart Defender I


Level 7 (Fighter)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II


Level 8 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Mastery II


Level 9 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Past Life: Student of the Sword
Enhancement: Fighter Bastard Sword Specialization I
Enhancement: Fighter Item Defense II
Enhancement: Improved Intimidate III


Level 10 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Combat Expertise
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy II


Level 11 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Enhancement: Fighter Tower Shield Mastery II


Level 12 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Bullheaded
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy III
Enhancement: Fighter Stalwart Defender II


Level 13 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+0.5)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Tumble (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Class Boost III


Level 14 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost III
Enhancement: Improved Intimidate IV


Level 15 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Mastery III


Level 16 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 17 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Enhancement: Fighter Tower Shield Mastery III
Enhancement: Fighter Bastard Sword Specialization II


Level 18 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Two Handed Fighting
Feat: (Selected) Quick Draw
Enhancement: Fighter Stalwart Defender III


Level 19 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5)
Enhancement: Deneith Intimidation I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength II


Level 20 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Swim (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Dodge
Enhancement: Fighter Weapon Alacrity
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness III

Feel free to help build up the s&b tank of ower dreams!

and comment down below

[willemvh]

Usefull tank info

AC stats needed (for not getting hit 95% of the time)

Horoth - 80/85/90
Suulo (ToD) - 77/81/85
Suulo (VoD) - 73/77/81

[RudeIota]

Usefull tank info

AC stats needed

Horoth - 80/85/90
Suulo (ToD) - 77/81/85
Suulo (VoD) - 73/77/81

What are these numbers? Are they the bare minimum to get hit < 95% of the time? 50% of the time? 5% of the time...?

[willemvh]

What are these numbers? Are they the bare minimum to get hit < 95% of the time? 50% of the time? 5% of the time...?

these are the numbers to get hit less then 95% of the time on there respected diff. normal/hard/elite i shall add that on top. thanks for pointing that out

[psymun]

The main question I would like to ask is HOW do you want to tank?

Hate?
AC?
DR?
Intimidate?

Personally, I built a hybrid Fighter/Paladin/Monk Intimihatetank with the ability of sword and board, but I haven't finished leveling him yet so I haven't had a chance to test his ability to hold aggro while holding a shield for the DR, but he will definitely hold aggro TWF tanking because he is specc'd to be a full DPS Hate tank and with minimal gear will have a 78 intimidate.

[willemvh]

ah yes,

I plan to tank with hate. But i will do so trough S&B never the use of something else as stated above.

And i believe a tanking role should use ALL means he has. that is intimi + hate + useing the DR you can get trough feats (shield mast)

I am on the quest to strike the perfect balance for hate dps tanking + useing inti on time to reduce the amount of healing needed (shield block when your hate is good) etc etc.

Mabey i should add 6. Tactics !

i got a question for you though. why the monk lvls ? just the wisdom ac is that usefull ? you lose anny stance while s&b so that isn't helping. the evasion is okeisch if you can the saves high enough so you are sure you don't take the damage?

[Alektronic]

On twf cloth tank build, monks get the wis bonus to AC which (somewhat) mitigates not using a shield. You lose this wis bonus when wearing cloth or using a shield, so splashing monk (I assume) doesn't help much for OP build, unless he wants to "keep other options open".

[unbongwah]

No THF feats makes me a sad panda. More importantly, it gimps your DPS in 2H and S&B mode, which is more important than ever to holding aggro. Likewise you should have PA; sometimes the best way to keep mobs mad at you is to hit them as hard as possible.

Have a look at the Sentinel Squire in my sig; it's only a 28 pt build, but it's going for the same idea you are: DPS, S&B tanking, pretty high Intim, shield feats in the second build. Only downside is not enough feats for everything I want. And if you want to bump up your saves, maybe HE with pally dilly feat makes more sense? Have a look at my HE rogue 2 / ftr 18 for one such example.

[willemvh]

Likewise you should have PA; sometimes the best way to keep mobs mad at you is to hit them as hard as possible.

i am looking into that as we speak and grabbing a new route with this info, though i want to stay s&b so dropping THF is an easy choise!

And if you want to bump up your saves, maybe HE with pally dilly feat makes more sense? Have a look at my HE rogue 2 / ftr 18 for one such example.

i also checked that idea out, now i got a question there, does the HE pally dilly feats ecnhant line STACK with force of personality ??? cause in the ddo char planner it doesn't !
Have an idea of this ?

[unbongwah]

i am looking into that as we speak and grabbing a new route with this info, though i want to stay s&b so dropping THF is an easy choise!

If you want glancing blows from BSword or DAxe, you need the THF feats. Also it's not a good idea to plan to spend your entire career in S&B mode; there will be times when either (A) you don't need the extra AC or dmg mitigation and you're better off killing things ASAP or (B) you've lost aggro and the best way to get it back is to switch to DPS mode. Part of being a good tank is knowing when to switch tactics.

i also checked that idea out, now i got a question there, does the HE pally dilly feats ecnhant line STACK with force of personality ???

They should, because they're separate effects. I don't know why the planner wouldn't reflect this properly - bug maybe?

[psymun]

Feel free to take a look at This Build. This is my newest DPS/Hate Tank. There are many variations to play around with this including dropping one of the intimidate feats in favor of Khoepsh.

If you have any questions I'll keep checking back on this thread for you.

[willemvh]

you got that build on char planner or care to copy paste it here ? so we can merge our intrests & ideas ? also i need a login for that and a bit to lazy atm to register

[Feithlin]

1 fighter VS paladin what to pick and why to pick it ?
2 Races is one more OP then the other ?
3 Builds & feats "to use or not to use" !
4 weapons & gear (Q&A)

1. Both will do well imo. Paladin have a better time on threat generation, thanks to Divine righteousness and their smites/capstone, but are short on feats, resulting in some difficult choices between dps feats, intimidate feats and shield feats.
The next question then is: splash or not?
F12/P6-7/M or Ro 1-2 makes it easier for threat generation, but isn't optimal for *the best S&B tank*.
Both Paladin and Fighter have a good capstone so splashing can be questionable. 2 rogue levels would give evasion (but requires to use light armor) and full umd. 2 monk levels would give evasion, 2 feats (can be 2 toughness) and a better AC when wearing no armor and no shield.

2. Human benefits: Sentinel dragonmark (+3 intimidate with enh., free +5 deflection), Healing amp., easier to equilibrate attributes, possibility to apply a boost in addition to class boosts via adaptability (for example damage from human and haste from fighter). The free feat also helps because even on a fighter, you easily become short on feats.
Dwarf benefits: High Con and HP, free Daxe proficiency and axe enh., bonus to balance and saves, possibility to reach higher MDB or reach the same MDB at a lower cost. Their reduced Cha and the non access to sentinel dragonmark can make it harder to reach 79-80 intimidate (eLailat / elite HoX), but on a TR it should be fine.
WF benefits: High Con and HP, better AC from important docents, great immunities, increased damage via bigger PA, increased threat generation from Brute fighting. This last addition can be really useful. The main problem is the healing penalty which can make you harder to save.
Horc: Big damage from both Str enh. and increased PA, increased threat generation from Brute fighting.
Helf: Same as humans on healing amp., balancing attributes and 2 boosts. They lack sentinel dragonmark and the free feat, but gain 2 timers on intimidate resulting in an easier threat generation or making it easier to recover the loss of aggro. Dilettante can also be very helpful: Paladin would increase your saves, Monk would increase your healing amp. and your unarmored AC without a shield.

3. a) You need to do damage if you want to generate a meaningfull threat so you should have:
* PA (you won't always have CE on)
* Full TWF or THF line (or both ). The 2nd is nice on a S&B because you benefit both on THF mode (eSoS since you want the *best*) and S&B mode (BS or Daxe).
* WF, WS, gWS at least on a fighter. It allows to switch between SD III and kensei II. If you can, gWF and sWF can be useful (to-hit can be an issue without the benefits of attacking from behind) and would allow to switch between SD III and kensei III.
* IC: slashing
* imp Shield bash but with a low priority because it's still a subpar contribution to dps, especially since you will usually not be able to break DR. I'm not sure if you can craft a +5 holy mithral tower shield, which could break devil DR. There's no cold iron shield atm afaik.
* Quick draw reduces the activation time of your boosts (from 1.2 sec. to 6 sec.) and makes the gear swap quicker. Can be a useful tool, but with a low priority.
b) You need to mitigate damage:
On the AC field:
* CE
* Dodge (low priority but easy +1 to AC)
On the DR-like field:
* Shield mastery
* imp Shield mastery if you can but the priority is low because of reduced benefit ('only' +5% physical dmg absorption)
On the save field:
* Lightning reflexes mostly, but I'm not a fan of this feat. Can be an option if you have evasion with a limited ref save (if it's too low, better not have evasion; if it's high, better not take the feat).
c) You need to survive damage: the 1st toughness is mandatory. Fill the spare feats with additional toughness. Your main objective would be to hit 650-700 HP, including things like rage and/or yugo pots, but not temp HP.
d) You want to keep aggro or recover it easily:
Intimidate will make threat generation much easier on a S&B (+80% average: +100% for 12 sec. every 15 sec. as opposed to +20% average when not using shield) and is very helpful if you loose aggro or even more if you ever die. A hate tank with no intim who dies will need to reconstruct all his hate from scratch, while a simple successful intim would have given him directly the best threat.
As *the best tank*, you want to hit 79 (eLailat) or 80 (elite HoX). Anticipate the bonuses you can get (ex. +4 GH, +2 Luck, +15 item, +5 eClaw gloves, +6 GS eCha skills, +6 SD III, +4 fighter enh., etc.) and get the required feats to reach the score.
* (Human only) Least Sentinel dragonmark: +2 from feat, +1 from associated enh. Further levels of the mark give much lower benefit (they only open +1 enh. for lesser and +2 from greater).
* SF: Intimidate: +3.
* Bullsheaded: +2.
e) Useful and useless additions: having a high UMD is very helpful, especially if you solo a lot. Again, see if SF: UMD is worth taking according to the UMD score you can reach.
Hamstring is a useful debuff that still works on red named, but for how long?...
Cleave and Great cleave are not very useful imo. It can help holding a mob aggro, but the most likely is it won't be enough to keep them from an angry caster. Intimidating them will make them stick to you until they get damaged. The best from the group would be to leave you with the pack and take one of them one after another.
Tactics feats are nice on the paper, but with the stretched attributes and AP on a defender, you will most probably not be able to reach a significant DC. Sap would be the only exception because it has no save.
Resilience, Precision, Die hard and Power critical are useless, but everybody knows that. Do they?

More to come if I have the courage

*Edit: On your build, after a quick look, I agree with unbongwah: you should really get the THF line. It's a big contribution to your dps and thus to your threat, even on S&B mode. Remember you want *the best tank* and thus want to keep aggro from a eSoS with eMarilith chain and eClaw set frenzied Barb.

[Nigo]

I think fighter class will be a better choice for a tank build. Because in paladin builds you'll lack extra feats and end up with lower HP, attack bonus. Also consider that a paladin will have high saves but requires investment in STR, DEX, CON, WIS and CHA. A fighter tank can tag along with STR, CON, DEX.

I would suggest dwarf race over others for dwarven ENHs like armor mastery, axe damage, shield mastery, tactics.

I strongly recommend 12 starting INT and using +1 INT tome for Combat Expertise.

I strongly recommend weapon focus and spec. feat line.

You might consider sacrificing some HP for saves but i dont suggest it because you wont have evasion to dodge most stuff.

You might consider sacrificing toughness feats for skill focus: intimidate and bullheaded.

[willemvh]

allrighty i have taken all the info from Feithlin (thank you for the great feedback !!) and update the build (see top for the new build)

S&B still but i updated for better damage aka treath generation. So far i just did the figher version (1st TR 32point builder)

i listed a level by level layout this time. I will post the numbers on intim hp etc later on. i will use easy raid loot and GS only where i can to make this a build for everyone who wants to put a little effort in it !

[-Zyxas-]

Nice, I get to show off my fancy build for insane powergamers only! (not for me even, I just like the planner... no TRs yet)

Evaluation:
[Intim = 82!! (no buffs except GH, no +4 Cha tome) to 90!] : ((23 ranks) + (4 Cha mod) + (3 Cha w/ +6 item) + (5-6 Shroud Cha skill item) + (4 Greater Heroism) + (2 Good luck on epics) + (1 with the stupid +4 cha tome) + (9 feats - Bullheaded, Skill Foc, Active Barb & Ftr Past lives) + (2 Coinlord Favor Feat) + (6 Stalwart Defender) + (4 Imp. Intim Enh's) + (15 Intim Item) + (5 Epic Claw or other item w/ Enh bonus to Intim) + (2 Bardsong, only situational factor) + (3 Human Versatility Skills, I guess there are 2 temporary buffs) + (1 possible +2 Excep Cha item))
yeah overkill... Half-elf chosen so you get 2 Intim timers, with a shield on you can permanently keep mobs intimidated. Reasonably will be 1 lower Cha for 32pt, no +4 tome, no active PLs, no +2 excep = 76 Intim (79 with boost on)

HP=
200 Ftr Lvls
160 Con (factoring 16 base, +2 tome, +6 item, +2 excep)
(20 Rage)
66 Toughness
60 Toughness Enhs
20 Toughness Item
45 GS HP item
(40 Stalwart Stance (+4 con))
20 Active Barb PL
30 Passive Barb PLs
10 Draconic Vitality "feat" from favor
30 GFL
(40 Barbarian Rage from active PL =P)
(20 Yugoloth Con Pot)
(40 Madstone)
(40 Dbl Madstone proc)
=637 Unbuffed, 697 Normal Buffed, 837 Insanely Buffed

AC= high enough I'm guessing, not gonna try to calculate gear =P

25% Melee DR from shield feats =], will probably use Levik's for DR15 while blocking, plus DR6 with Stalwart III

THF chain for decent dps, also has Haste Boost IV... somewhat OK

Should probably replace Wep Foc Slash with PA or another Toughness

Enhancements... probably don't need the tower shield thing, balance between tower shield max dex and armor max dex

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.9.1
DDO Character Planner Home Page
YOURNAMEHERE
Level 20 True Neutral Half-Elf Male
(20 Fighter) 
Hit Points: 496
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
Fortitude: 19
Reflex: 10
Will: 10
                Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats         Base Stats         Modified Stats
(36 Point)       (Level 1)          (Level 20)           (Level 20)
Strength             16                 25                   29
Dexterity            10                 14                   14
Constitution         16                 20                   20
Intelligence         12                 16                   16
Wisdom                8                 12                   12
Charisma             16                 20                   21
Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Strength used at level 3
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 3
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
+4 Tome of Strength used at level 15
+4 Tome of Dexterity used at level 15
+4 Tome of Constitution used at level 15
+4 Tome of Intelligence used at level 15
+4 Tome of Wisdom used at level 15
+4 Tome of Charisma used at level 15
 
                Starting            Ending          Feat/Enhancement
               Base Skills        Base Skills        Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)          (Level 20)          (Level 20)
Balance               1                 13                   13
Bluff                 3                  5                    5
Concentration         3                  5                    5
Diplomacy             3                  5                    5
Disable Device        n/a               n/a                   n/a
Haggle                3                  5                    5
Heal                 -1                  1                    1
Hide                  0                  2                    2
Intimidate            7                 28                   47
Jump                  3                 27                   27
Listen               -1                  1                    1
Move Silently         0                  2                    2
Open Lock             n/a               n/a                   n/a
Perform               n/a               n/a                   n/a
Repair                1                  3                    3
Search                1                  3                    3
Spot                 -1                  1                    1
Swim                  3                  9                    9
Tumble                1                  3                    3
Use Magic Device      5                 16                   16
 
Level 1 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+4)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
Feat: (Half-Elf Dilettante) Half-Elf Dilettante: Paladin
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Barbarian
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Barbarian
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Barbarian
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Fighter
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Fighter
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Fighter
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Monk
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Monk
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Monk
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Paladin
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Paladin
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Paladin
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Shield Mastery
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
 
Level 2 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Shield Bash
 
Level 3 (Fighter)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Past Life: Berserker's Fury
 
Level 4 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Combat Expertise
 
Level 5 (Fighter)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
 
Level 6 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Past Life: Student of the Sword
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Class Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Stalwart Defender I
Enhancement: Fighter Tower Shield Mastery I
Enhancement: Improved Paladin Dilettante I
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Human Versatility I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Improved Intimidate I
Enhancement: Improved Intimidate II
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II
 
Level 7 (Fighter)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
 
Level 8 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Bastard Sword
 
Level 9 (Fighter)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Skill Focus: Intimidate
 
Level 10 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
 
Level 11 (Fighter)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
 
Level 12 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Bullheaded
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Shield Mastery
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Class Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Stalwart Defender II
Enhancement: Fighter Tower Shield Mastery II
Enhancement: Improved Paladin Dilettante II
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Fighter Item Defense I
Enhancement: Improved Intimidate III
Enhancement: Improved Intimidate IV
Enhancement: Fighter Strength II
 
Level 13 (Fighter)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
 
Level 14 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Two Handed Fighting
 
Level 15 (Fighter)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
 
Level 16 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+2)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Two Handed Fighting
 
Level 17 (Fighter)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
 
Level 18 (Fighter)
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+2)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Two Handed Fighting
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Class Boost III
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost III
Enhancement: Fighter Stalwart Defender III
Enhancement: Fighter Item Defense II
Enhancement: Fighter Strength III
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness III
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness IV
 
Level 19 (Fighter)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
 
Level 20 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Balance (+1)
Skill: Intimidate (+1)
Skill: Jump (+2)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Dodge
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost IV
Enhancement: Fighter Weapon Alacrity
Enhancement: Human Versatility II
Enhancement: Half-Elf Paladin Charisma I

Hmm..., how do you like that?

If you get anything at all out of this, it'll be that HElf is the correct race so you can turtle tank with intimilock. And that there are too many unreasonable bonuses out there. Enjoy.

[willemvh]

hey mate, first off tank you for shareing your view on all of this.

I do spot some issues that can be changed and got some questions for you though.

The improved shield bash feat is atm still useless (shields don't break DR so they don't really add to your damage) also you plan to "still" turtle so you don't need that feat at all for hate generation !

i know your build is powergamer only but untill you reach the intimi needed for a certain mob how do you plan to keep agro ? i mean if your intimi will be 1 short of the perfect lock on a raid boss you and your party are screeeeeeeeewed so what is your back up plan ?

your stats i see 2 uneven numbers (cha & str). i know that isn't a problem with exp gear but keep in mind you need to fit all that gear on your char so try to plan it out first!

also if you actualy plan to HELF to keep an intimilock (i never played helf so i aint sure if it would work perfectly) why the bastard sword feats etc ? if you want a dps option open go Gaxe or 2h sword ?

And to finish my questions on your take on the tank i have to ask if you do all those TR's why not go for completionist and get the +2 on everything over a few of those trs !

[-Zyxas-]

hey mate, first off tank you for shareing your view on all of this.

I do spot some issues that can be changed and got some questions for you though.

The improved shield bash feat is atm still useless (shields don't break DR so they don't really add to your damage) also you plan to "still" turtle so you don't need that feat at all for hate generation !

i know your build is powergamer only but untill you reach the intimi needed for a certain mob how do you plan to keep agro ? i mean if your intimi will be 1 short of the perfect lock on a raid boss you and your party are screeeeeeeeewed so what is your back up plan ?

your stats i see 2 uneven numbers (cha & str). i know that isn't a problem with exp gear but keep in mind you need to fit all that gear on your char so try to plan it out first!

also if you actualy plan to HELF to keep an intimilock (i never played helf so i aint sure if it would work perfectly) why the bastard sword feats etc ? if you want a dps option open go Gaxe or 2h sword ?

And to finish my questions on your take on the tank i have to ask if you do all those TR's why not go for completionist and get the +2 on everything over a few of those trs !

1. The shield bash thing I guess isn't needed.
2. Backup plan is hate - also answers #1 - or use a different tank. This build CAN get well over the max intim needed for anything though even missing a few items, so it will work after some moderate grind.
3. Exceptional stats are fairly easy to get on ToD rings. Otherwise I suppose you could drop enhancements.
4. Very true. Of course there would be the 2H wep option, but if you feel like hate tanking the bastard sword would be useful, then again I don't know if anyone would actually hate tank versus intimitank... ah well... you could replace it with some other feat.
5. Yeah completionist would add to the build. 32pt version would be possible, missing out on PL feats and lowering Cha by 2 at the start. =]

Have to agree that it would be pretty cool to see someone with this build or a similar one though.
Fighters are good tanks because of feats, pallies are good for threat and shield DR bypass if pure.

[uthanak69]

I have a pretty fun S&B Pally, using Tower Shields and a Bastard Sword. I love it, can survive easily on his own, hold aggro, etc.

[SiliconShadow]

1 fighter VS paladin what to pick and why to pick it ?
Fighter
pros:
More flexability, more to hit bonus, more strength
cons:
Less self survivability, even more item intensive

Paladin
pros:
Self heals, higher saves, can use almost any weapon and can use any epic weapon as a dr breaker
cons:
lower hp, less flexability

2 Races is one more OP then the other ?
Warforged are op because of immunities and can be repaired + healed and have better intimidate and the most hp
Half Elves have 2 intimidate timers!
Humans have higher healing amp IMPORTANT FOR A TANK
Dwarves are better with shields
Halflings have better ac
Other option is half orc for pure threat tank

3 Builds & feats "to use or not to use" !
Depending on what you pick fighter or paladin you might not have a choice of feats, there is NO flexability with the paladin, but with the fighter you can focus on your chosen tanking style ac / hp / intimidate

4 weapons & gear (Q&A)
At the looks of it in the near future a sword and board with a epic chimeras fang and maybe the chimeras helm as a human with the dragon marks will be the way to go... But this isn't confirmed, so as gear goes this will change in the next 6 months big time.

5 varia
Pick your style, ac tanks are very focused and it is difficult to be an ac tank and a dps, however a hp tank and dps is rather easy to build, just play around with your style, a fighter is much easier to build into a tank but a paladin is more powerful when built and geared correctly.

At the end of the day you need to roll a lv4 of each and see how you like each one for a few levels, it all depends on your playstyle.

For my tank I started as a 18/2 Defender of siberys (pali/fighter) ac tank, then went to barbarian and went back to a knight of the chalice threat tank, standing at 761hp, 42strength and 22 charisma unbuffed he is extremely difficult to take down, however his ac is for nought but that is the choice I made.

Good luck!