Build Request: DPS Trapchanter

[arjiwan]

Greetings Rock Stars,

I would like to request for a build for a bard. Yes, I've read the Diva's love guide for bards, I checked the awesome builds like Axesinger etc etc, but still I can't find the build my friend wanted (or I can't understand the existing builds). I have created a level 20 Bard SS, but I think this build is going to be very different from that (of course).

Here are my thoughts:
1. Must be a 32 point build Human
2. +2 Tomes are available (or possible)
3. dps primary but can do traps
4. Healing may come from UMD heal scrolls
5. Rogue multiclass on the first level (for traps)
6. Have enough sp for rage / haste / blur. Buffs can be self-buffs only.

Here are the starting stats:
STR 18 (All level up goes to STR)
DEX 8
CON 14
INT 14
WIS 8
CHA 12

Feats:
Two handed Weapon Full lines
Weapon Critical (I am not sure on this feat's name 'coz I'm playing casters primarily)
Toughness
What else?

My questions are
1. Would this be a viable build?
2. Is the dex enough for any relating traps? (I have no idea)
3. Will the SP be enough for self buffing and continuous Haste / Rage?

I hope you can help me with your thoughts.

Cheers!

[kuro_zero]

You will need a weapon focus feat (most likely slashing)and power attack as they are pre reqs for warchanter. Search and Disable are based on INT. Open Lock is based on DEX. No vital lock requires an insane OL so 8 DEX should be fine. Bard also her Ref as a high save so dumping it won't hurt it too badly (against mob spell - some higher content traps a different matter)

As a self buffer, you could afford to dump CHA all the way to 8, use a +2 tome and +6 item and still cast all bards spells (highest they get is 6). Not sure if you need INT that high since human get extra skill points. Maybe 11 + 1 Tome at lvl 3.

Recommend boosting con as high as possible since bards d6 hurt as a front line fighter and healing mostly from scrolls and pots (SP to refresh buffs). It may be worth 16 STR and use those points in CON as your song will provide a hefty bonus.

With even a WIZ VI SP item you shouldn't have problems keeping displace, haste, and rage up.

Hope your friend likes it! I love my bard, although I skipped trapping abilities, eventual class split will be 15 bard/2 fighter/3 rogue (for sneak attack)

[karl_k0ch]

I'd go with a 16 bard/2 rog/2 fgt split*. Skill point allocation can be tricky. 18 bard/2 rogue is doable, too, but offer not much, imho. Another option would be 16 bard /4 rog, having more freeness with the skill points.

I'd take

Toughness
Power Attack
WF: Slashing
IC: Slashing
THF
ITHF
GTHF
Extend

This leaves 2 feats open for customization.

Feats to consider are e.g. Toughness, Maximize, Quicken, SF:UMD, Force of Personality, and Insightful Reflexes. The latter two not being great, but OK.

As a rule of thumb, the build should be able to obtain a Reflex save of about 30+, otherwise Evasion will not help reliably to take no damage.

Edit:* or maybe not, see below. Lots of viable choices here.

[licho]

Im always curious why ppl prefer 16/2/2 split, then 16/3rog/1fig, or 16/2barb/2rog
The two later offers more in dps and utylity.
After clasic warrior feat package there are no interesting feats anyway.

[kuro_zero]

An extra feat is pretty big, and is one of the few builds I'm thinking of taking multiple toughness to off set the bards d6 hit-die. It also gives you access to the +1 STR enhancement.

Not sure what changes for people to advocate 16 bard as that gives you access to 6th level spells. Prior I remember 15 being more often recommended as lack of useful 6th level spells for a battlebard. Was something added making 6th level spell access a must?

I think rage you get for 2 barb isn't great enough of a bonus to give up spellcasting. My personal opinion as I like the self sufficiency inherent in the bard class and being one less person for the cleric to worry about is a huge plus in my book.

[karl_k0ch]

Im always curious why ppl prefer 16/2/2 split, then 16/3rog/1fig, or 16/2barb/2rog
The two later offers more in dps and utylity.
After clasic warrior feat package there are no interesting feats anyway.

True, true. Some more thoughts on this topic.

16/3/1 is a nice option to minimize Int requirements/maximize Skill points.

16/2 rog/2 barb on the other hand fits nicely with THF. On a human, you don't actually need the fighter levels in order to get the list of 8 feats from post #3. Warchanter has some nice synergies with the barb levels. But then, you can't cast or scroll cast while raging.

Note that not going TWF with Khopeshes will provide not the best DPS, btw. But then, you are a bard. The largest part of your DPS is passive and will still work if you are in the backpack of a fellow party member. Yes, Inspire Courage is good.

Imho, TWF and Rogue levels have nice synergies: SA dice and bonuses apply to both weapons. The Dex requirements of the TWF line give a reasonable boost to your reflex save, making Evasion worth the investment. Unfortunately, the weapon of choice will be Khopesh, costing a feat; enforcing to drop Extend or taking a fighter splash.

15 Bard vs. 16 Bard boils down to the question if you want to have Otto's or not. Hero's Feast is nice as well.

As a conclusion, also other builds than the traditional 16/2/2 split are viable, depending on the desired fighting style.

[zex95966]

Well I have a similar plan, only its twf and plans to get its damage from sneak attack damage mostly.

If I or you made it thf instead of twf, it could only get easier. I went because well each weapon will benefit from the sneak damage plus the buffs - but thf would make the build a lot easier.

And those 2 feats are definitely a big deal due to the warchanter requirements. I don't think I could do it without splashing the fighter.

Edit this to your own tastes:

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.8.0
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 True Neutral Halfling Male
(2 Fighter \ 2 Rogue \ 16 Bard) 
Hit Points: 260
Spell Points: 645 
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 11
Reflex: 19
Will: 11

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             12                    14
Dexterity            16                    18
Constitution         12                    14
Intelligence         14                    16
Wisdom                8                    10
Charisma             16                    26

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               3                     4
Bluff                 7                    17
Concentration         3                    24
Diplomacy             7                    12
Disable Device        6                    27
Haggle                6                    11
Heal                 -1                     0
Hide                  3                     8
Intimidate            3                    12
Jump                  5                     9
Listen               -1                     2
Move Silently         3                     6
Open Lock             7                     8
Perform               n/a                  30
Repair                2                     3
Search                6                    27
Spot                  3                    17
Swim                  1                     2
Tumble                4                     5
Use Magic Device      7                    30

Level 1 (Rogue)
Skill: Bluff (+4)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Diplomacy (+4)
Skill: Disable Device (+4)
Skill: Haggle (+3)
Skill: Jump (+4)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Search (+4)
Skill: Spot (+4)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 2 (Fighter)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 3 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+4)
Skill: Perform (+4)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell


Level 4 (Bard)
Ability Raise: CHA
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+3)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage I
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning I
Enhancement: Halfling Guile I
Enhancement: Halfling Hero's Companion I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music I
Enhancement: Bard Charisma I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery I


Level 5 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+2)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack I
Enhancement: Halfling Hero's Companion II


Level 6 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+2)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Quicken Spell
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning II
Enhancement: Improved Disable Device I
Enhancement: Improved Search I


Level 7 (Bard)
Skill: Bluff (+1)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery II
Enhancement: Halfling Guile II


Level 8 (Bard)
Ability Raise: CHA
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Bard Charisma II


Level 9 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
Enhancement: Bard Warchanter I


Level 10 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1.5)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II


Level 11 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack II


Level 12 (Bard)
Ability Raise: CHA
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery III


Level 13 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning III


Level 14 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Bard Warchanter II
Enhancement: Halfling Guile III


Level 15 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1.5)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Halfling Hero's Companion III


Level 16 (Bard)
Ability Raise: CHA
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Bard Charisma III


Level 17 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage III


Level 18 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Halfling Hero's Companion IV


Level 19 (Rogue)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+4)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Halfling Cunning IV


Level 20 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: CHA
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Jump (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Enhancement: Halfling Guile IV
Enhancement: Halfling Luck (Reflex) I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
Enhancement: Improved Spot I
Enhancement: Bard Improved Spell Penetration I

[tkneip1874]

this is the bard i made up when i tr'd him from rog/barb that didnt work as well as thought. it is different than what most people post and may not the optimal although i think he does good. so far has gotten every trap in the game although ive not done alot of epics. the +3 INT tome i planned because i found one in my past life and incorperated into initial build. the +3 STR tome i found later so adjust accordingly.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.9.1
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 True Neutral Dwarf Male
(2 Fighter \ 2 Rogue \ 16 Bard) 
Hit Points: 382
Spell Points: 660 
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 14
Reflex: 17
Will: 10

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(34 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             16                    25
Dexterity             8                     8
Constitution         18                    22
Intelligence         15                    18
Wisdom                8                    10
Charisma             12                    14

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 2
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7
+3 Tome of Intelligence used at level 10
+3 Tome of Strength used at level 20
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 20
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 20

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               3                    15
Bluff                 1                     3
Concentration         6                    30
Diplomacy             1                     3
Disable Device        6                    28
Haggle                5                     7
Heal                 -1                     1
Hide                 -1                     0
Intimidate            1                     7
Jump                  7                    13
Listen               -1                     1
Move Silently        -1                     0
Open Lock             3                    23
Perform               n/a                  26
Repair                2                     5
Search                6                    30
Spot                  3                     5
Swim                  6                    11
Tumble                0                     1
Use Magic Device      5                    26

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Rogue
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 2 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 3 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Mental Toughness


Level 4 (Bard)


Level 5 (Bard)


Level 6 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell


Level 7 (Bard)


Level 8 (Bard)


Level 9 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Insightful Reflexes
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack


Level 10 (Rogue)


Level 11 (Bard)


Level 12 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 13 (Bard)


Level 14 (Bard)


Level 15 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Past Life: Sneak of Shadows


Level 16 (Bard)


Level 17 (Bard)


Level 18 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 19 (Bard)


Level 20 (Bard)
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack III
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery III
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage III
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song I
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song II
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song III
Enhancement: Bard Lingering Song IV
Enhancement: Bard Warchanter I
Enhancement: Bard Warchanter II
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage I
Enhancement: Dwarven Axe Damage II
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution I
Enhancement: Dwarven Constitution II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III
Enhancement: Racial Toughness IV
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music I
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music II
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music III
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music IV
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery I
Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery II

[Patsaan]

Look up axesinger build.

Just fiddle with stats abit and eat int tome at lvl 7. youll have plenty of skillpoints to keep search and disable dev maxed. Plus Axesinger is Awesome build. Awesome.

Pat.

[karl_k0ch]

Well I have a similar plan, only its twf and plans to get its damage from sneak attack damage mostly.

If I or you made it thf instead of twf, it could only get easier. I went because well each weapon will benefit from the sneak damage plus the buffs - but thf would make the build a lot easier.

(snip)

Some thoughts on that build:
Str and Con too low for my taste, Cha and Int (and Dex, if needed) can be dropped a bit.
Quicken is not a must on this kind of build; instead Khopesh is an option. For a human, even a fighter level less is fine; allowing to go 16/3/1, for another +1D6 SA damage and skill point consolidation.
Class progression: I would take the second rogue level around 10, for evasion, and take the last fighter level earlier due to skill point maximization.
Improvement potential is vast on this build.

Look up axesinger build.

Just fiddle with stats abit and eat int tome at lvl 7. youll have plenty of skillpoints to keep search and disable dev maxed. Plus Axesinger is Awesome build. Awesome.

Pat.

cf OP.

this is the bard i made up when i tr'd him from rog/barb that didnt work as well as thought. it is different than what most people post and may not the optimal although i think he does good.

I'm also commenting on this one, with the intention that this helps the OP to make some choices by himself.
I'm surprised that you did not go TWF, but THF. Mental Toughness is not needed, imho. I'd drop it with THF, actually. Insightful Reflexes makes sense on a 14+ Int/8 Dex build. Double Toughness is nice. These three feat slots would alternatively allow you to go TWF; I don't think that Stats are a problem for a 34pt build.

[unbongwah]

2. Is the dex enough for any relating traps? (I have no idea)

Search & Disable are based on INT; Open Lock is based on DEX. I'd be more worried about how dump-stating DEX affects your Reflex save, since Evasion is kinda pointless w/out good Reflex.

Pretty sure I already did a build like this...here we go:

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.9.1
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 True Neutral Human Female
(1 Fighter \ 3 Rogue \ 16 Bard) 
Hit Points: 256
Spell Points: 450 
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 10
Reflex: 12
Will: 10

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             18                    24
Dexterity             8                     8
Constitution         14                    14
Intelligence         14                    14
Wisdom                8                     8
Charisma             12                    12

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               3                     3
Bluff                 5                     5
Concentration         4                    25
Diplomacy             1                     1
Disable Device        6                    25
Haggle                5                     5
Heal                 -1                    -1
Hide                 -1                    -1
Intimidate            1                     5
Jump                  8                    11
Listen               -1                    -1
Move Silently        -1                    -1
Open Lock             3                    14
Perform               n/a                  24
Repair                2                     2
Search                6                    25
Spot                  3                    19
Swim                  4                     7
Tumble                3                     3
Use Magic Device      5                    24

Level 1 (Rogue)
Skill: Balance (+4)
Skill: Bluff (+4)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+4)
Skill: Haggle (+4)
Skill: Jump (+4)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Search (+4)
Skill: Spot (+4)
Skill: Tumble (+4)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Human Bonus) Two Handed Fighting


Level 2 (Fighter)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 3 (Bard)
Skill: Perform (+6)
Skill: Spot (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack


Level 4 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+5)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 5 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+2)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 6 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell (swap for Quicken after taking Maximize)


Level 7 (Rogue)
Skill: Disable Device (+2)
Skill: Open Lock (+3)
Skill: Search (+2)
Skill: Spot (+4)


Level 8 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+2)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)


Level 9 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting


Level 10 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 11 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 12 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 13 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 14 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 15 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting


Level 16 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+6)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+3)


Level 17 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+3)
Skill: Perform (+2)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)


Level 18 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Maximize Spell


Level 19 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+2)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)


Level 20 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Open Lock (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Rogue Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack III
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery III
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage I
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage II
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage III
Enhancement: Bard Warchanter I
Enhancement: Bard Warchanter II
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Human Versatility I
Enhancement: Human Versatility II
Enhancement: Human Versatility III
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Bard Lyric of Song I
Enhancement: Bard Lyric of Song II
Enhancement: Bard Lyric of Song III
Enhancement: Bard Lyric of Incredible Song I
Enhancement: Bard Lyric of Incredible Song II
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic I
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic II
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic III
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic IV
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I
Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery I
Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery II
Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery III
Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery IV

Great DPS, full trap skills, and by endgame a solid backup healer (grab Raiyum Torc and/or Con Opp GS item for SP regen). Other class options include:

• rogue 2 / ftr 2 / bard 16: give up 1D6 SA & some skill pts for another feat (e.g., Emp Heal for another +50% to Cure spells)
• rogue 3 / ftr 2 / bard 15: give up lvl 6 bard spells for that extra feat; doesn't make much sense if you want to be a healer too though (no MCM).

[karl_k0ch]

I'd be more worried about how dump-stating DEX affects your Reflex save, since Evasion is kinda pointless w/out good Reflex.

If you don't want to emphasize the healing through-SP part, you can always keep Extend and take Insightful Reflexes (for +3 reflex, essentially) instead of Maximize/Quicken. Maybe even earlier than PA, rearranging the feats a bit.

[tkneip1874]

I'm also commenting on this one, with the intention that this helps the OP to make some choices by himself.
I'm surprised that you did not go TWF, but THF. Mental Toughness is not needed, imho. I'd drop it with THF, actually. Insightful Reflexes makes sense on a 14+ Int/8 Dex build. Double Toughness is nice. These three feat slots would alternatively allow you to go TWF; I don't think that Stats are a problem for a 34pt build.[/QUOTE]


in responce to this... did not go twf mainly cause i had a min2 great axe, triple pos maul, and 2/3 of rad2 falchion already crafted. i actually tried the entire thf line and was not very impressed with it. it seemed to me that moving just a little interrupped glancing blows for almost the entire attack chain. besides ive been learning to twitch fight and actually enjoy that more. mental toughness i took because i usually want to do most buffs in shroud to save arcane/divine casters mana. ive found that casting fom, blur, neut poison and gh on everyone ive run out of mana. thats just my personal prefrence. feel free to adjust accordingly. just wanted to post my build to give new ideas.

[zex95966]

Some thoughts on that build:
Str and Con too low for my taste, Cha and Int (and Dex, if needed) can be dropped a bit.
Quicken is not a must on this kind of build; instead Khopesh is an option. For a human, even a fighter level less is fine; allowing to go 16/3/1, for another +1D6 SA damage and skill point consolidation.
Class progression: I would take the second rogue level around 10, for evasion, and take the last fighter level earlier due to skill point maximization.
Improvement potential is vast on this build.

I agree with you actually. I just can't make myself delay the bard that much. (that's just me)

If I were to go human, I would probably go thf instead since I will no longer get the dex bonus for halfling and that would allow me to dump it in order to get strength up higher.
On the other hand, If I were to do that I think it changes the build completely.

With less int what would I drop skill wise? (I actually would like more int for diplomacy!)
Personally I think there are three choices for this kind of build:

Human for feat and skill points, bonus stats, and versatility

Halfling for buffs, companionship, extra saves which help the evasion part as well. easier to qualify for twf, and sneak damage.

Drow take bonuses in all the stats that I would like to raise up even more, but takes con penalty and loses sneak damage compared to halfling.

I've been back and forth, and basically if I were to go with thf I would def go human.
you do lose some reflex save as others noted, but I think a thf version is definitely easier to make.

here's one made more for you:
It's not perfect, but you can change what you don't like.

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.8.0
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Level 20 True Neutral Human Female
(2 Fighter \ 2 Rogue \ 16 Bard) 
Hit Points: 280
Spell Points: 545 
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 11
Reflex: 18
Will: 10

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             18                    26
Dexterity             8                    10
Constitution         14                    16
Intelligence         14                    16
Wisdom                8                    10
Charisma             12                    18

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance              -1                     0
Bluff                 1                     4
Concentration         4                    26
Diplomacy             5                    17
Disable Device        6                    27
Haggle                4                     7
Heal                 -1                     0
Hide                  3                     4
Intimidate            1                     8
Jump                  8                    12
Listen               -1                     0
Move Silently         3                     4
Open Lock             3                     4
Perform               n/a                  27
Repair                2                     3
Search                6                    27
Spot                  3                    24
Swim                  4                     8
Tumble                0                     1
Use Magic Device      5                    27

Level 1 (Rogue)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Diplomacy (+4)
Skill: Disable Device (+4)
Skill: Haggle (+3)
Skill: Hide (+4)
Skill: Jump (+4)
Skill: Move Silently (+4)
Skill: Open Lock (+4)
Skill: Search (+4)
Skill: Spot (+4)
Skill: Tumble (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+4)
Feat: (Human Bonus) Power Attack
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 2 (Fighter)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 3 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+3)
Skill: Perform (+6)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell


Level 4 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Disable Device (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Two Handed Fighting
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery I
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Human Versatility I
Enhancement: Human Versatility II
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Training I
Enhancement: Improved Disable Device I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I


Level 5 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+3)
Skill: Disable Device (+1.5)
Skill: Perform (+2)
Skill: Search (+0.5)
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage I
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Charisma I
Enhancement: Bard Wand and Scroll Mastery I


Level 6 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+2)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+0.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2)
Feat: (Selected) Insightful Reflexes
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack I
Enhancement: Bard Charisma I


Level 7 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+2)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II


Level 8 (Rogue)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Search (+3)
Skill: Spot (+7)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Human Versatility III


Level 9 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+2)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+2)
Skill: Search (+1.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery II
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II
Enhancement: Improved Search I


Level 10 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Bard Warchanter I


Level 11 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1.5)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage II


Level 12 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Human Versatility IV
Enhancement: Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy I
Enhancement: Improved Spot I


Level 13 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack II


Level 14 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Strength I


Level 15 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Bravery III
Enhancement: Bard Energy of the Music I


Level 16 (Bard)
Ability Raise: STR
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Bard Warchanter II


Level 17 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Damage III


Level 18 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Feat: (Selected) Lightning Reflexes
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery III


Level 19 (Bard)
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Bard Charisma II


Level 20 (Bard)
Ability Raise: CHA
Skill: Concentration (+1)
Skill: Diplomacy (+1)
Skill: Disable Device (+1)
Skill: Perform (+1)
Skill: Search (+1)
Skill: Spot (+1)
Skill: Use Magic Device (+1)
Enhancement: Bard Inspired Attack III
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic I
Enhancement: Bard Song Magic II

[arjiwan]

Thanks all for the replies. Sorry for being such a noob, this is our first time to try a multiclass build. It is really interesting and looks like a fun build. But on the other hand, a little complicated for me.

I would like to add again this points (and questions):

1. 32 point builds (we are not into TR-ing)
2. There are computations that TWF > THF, but she really wants THF.
3. I don't think SA will be a good idea because she will be the main dps in the party, hence all the agro.


Can you guys explain me the insightful reflexes feat? Is that when you disarm a trap and it failed? Or when you sprung a trap and you need to save?

[Victor_1]

Insight reflex allow you to Int modifier for your reflex save bonus instead of Dex, if Int bonus is higher than your Dex bonus.

As for the SA, more you level up less you'll likely hold aggro as a bard.
Maybe not on static group but on the raid and/or PuG, DPS focused character will easily out DPS you.

Fully geared character can deal addtional 12-17 dmg per swing via SA even with the single rogue levels.
This is significant bonus to your damage output as long as your enemies are subject to critical hits.

And this bonus automatically granted along side with evasion and trap capability.
There's very small reason to ignore this one IMHO.

That being said, I think zex95966 build above of your post makes good reference.
Try tinker his build with character builder, and if you needs further advice just post here.

Hope it helps.

[arjiwan]

Thank you everyone for your help.

Here is my first take on this interesting multiclass. I did not take the enhancements yet and the tomes should be taken on level 7.

Please critique my build.

Regarding the SA damage. We will be on a static party, rarely PUG, maybe on raids.

Cheers all!

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.9.1
DDO Character Planner Home Page

Trapchanter 
Level 20 True Neutral Human Female
(2 Fighter \ 2 Rogue \ 16 Bard) 
Hit Points: 230
Spell Points: 500 
BAB: 15\15\20\25\25
Fortitude: 11
Reflex: 17
Will: 10

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             18                    25
Dexterity             8                    10
Constitution         14                    16
Intelligence         12                    14
Wisdom                8                    10
Charisma             14                    16

Tomes Used
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 1
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 1
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 1
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 1
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 1
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 1

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               4                     5
Bluff                 3                     3
Concentration         5                    26
Diplomacy             7                     8
Disable Device        6                    25
Haggle                3                     3
Heal                  0                     0
Hide                  0                     0
Intimidate            3                     3
Jump                  9                    11
Listen                0                     0
Move Silently         3                     3
Open Lock             4                     4
Perform               n/a                  26
Repair                2                     2
Search                6                    24
Spot                  4                    20
Swim                  5                     7
Tumble                1                     1
Use Magic Device      7                    26

Level 1 (Rogue)
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack
Feat: (Human Bonus) Toughness


Level 2 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons


Level 3 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell


Level 4 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Two Handed Fighting


Level 5 (Bard)


Level 6 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Insightful Reflexes


Level 7 (Bard)


Level 8 (Rogue)


Level 9 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Two Handed Fighting


Level 10 (Bard)


Level 11 (Bard)


Level 12 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 13 (Bard)


Level 14 (Bard)


Level 15 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting


Level 16 (Bard)


Level 17 (Bard)


Level 18 (Bard)
Feat: (Selected) Lightning Reflexes


Level 19 (Bard)


Level 20 (Bard)

[NinetyNineTails]

I actually built something similar and posted it a few weeks ago. She's shelved for the moment while I build up my crafting on my main and get some twink gear together, but the comments in the thread may be interesting to you.

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=315519

[kuro_zero]

I'm at work and can't scroll down the coded stuff but just wished to throw my two cents in. I would recommend dropping CHA to 10, using +CHA items to gain spellcasting ability. The points can be used to bump CON. I can not stress how important HP is on a front line melee bard, who only gets 6 HP a level (compared to fighter or paly 10/per port barb 12/per). Since this the the main melee of a duo(?) group, it needs all the HP it can get.

EDIT
Since bard's facinate song is based on 1d20+MOD PERFORM vs will with no SR check, a high CHA is not needed for an incredibly potent form of CC.

[arjiwan]

I'm at work and can't scroll down the coded stuff but just wished to throw my two cents in. I would recommend dropping CHA to 10, using +CHA items to gain spellcasting ability. The points can be used to bump CON. I can not stress how important HP is on a front line melee bard, who only gets 6 HP a level (compared to fighter or paly 10/per port barb 12/per). Since this the the main melee of a duo(?) group, it needs all the HP it can get.

EDIT
Since bard's facinate song is based on 1d20+MOD PERFORM vs will with no SR check, a high CHA is not needed for an incredibly potent form of CC.

Interesting idea.

Static party of 4.
Air Savant Sorc
AM Wizard
RS Cleric and
the trapchanter bard.

Of course we would like to be viable at raids and maybe epic stuff in the future...