Insults, aggression and arrogance

[joneb1999]

Erm I had a senior moment

[Ungood]

All this is just hypothetical and Im interested in finding peoples attitudes -

Does someone who is insulted, threatened etc have the right to fight back and so if they are not so good with words or threatening attitude is it acceptable if they fight back using lawful authorities or using their fists even?

You always have the right to fight back, and you should!

As far as using lawful authorities, yes they do.

As for punching them in the face, well lets just say, that is why people like being jerks on MMO and Forums, it's safer for them. And while it might not be right to punch people in the face or kick their teeth in because they insulted you, giving them the idea that you A: Don't care. B: Will do it anyway, I have noticed, Stops them dead in their tracks.

Funny how that works in real life.

[Raiar]

Let's see what you think of this. I put up an LFM for Wiz king at level. LFM says "Be able to solo a tower, know it" Pugger A joins comes out and follows me around in tower 1. I say go clear tower 2, and we can do 3 together. Pugger says "Clear what". At this point I realized that yet another person hit an lfm without reading what the LFM said.

Would you be one of the people that say "Be nice to pugger, you should show him what you know"? No deal! I consider Pugger A the jerk for (what I consider) griefing me. The LFM clearly did not say "training run" or "come pike".

I wont and can't feel bad if this guy gets yelled at. He took it on his own to enter a quest that had clear instrucitons and he thought that I or someone else would possibly just cover for him. If I am wrong in your opinion, oh well. I am not here to make friends or sugar coat anything. I dont care what baggage anyone is carrying in life.

In your opinion, am I the only jerk still? Pugger A was the good guy?

Where would you get that notion? Pugger A is clearly being a jerk in that situation. I'm not one of the people trying to defend jerks; my post was (I thought) fairly clear that I don't excuse that sort of rude behavior. Whether or not you were also a jerk, I have no idea, since your example talked only of what this pugger did and not what you did.

Certainly you were under no obligation to turn your fast run into a slow training run. (And if there were other people in the group besides the two of you — people who joined expecting the run you'd described in your LFM — then turning the run into a training run for pugger A would be unfair to them unless they agreed to the change.) You'd be perfectly justified in kicking him out. On the other hand, if you were to start stalking and harassing him, that wouldn't be justified. And while a single "Why the h*ll would you join a 'know the quest' group if you didn't know the quest!" would be understandable when you found out he'd joined under false pretenses, if you were to continue spewing invective and insults, it could quickly reach a point of being abusive, making you as much as a jerk as the pugger you're yelling at.

however, that's FAR less common than someone who doesn't read an LFM. i am deliberately expressive in LFM's. people say that they don't read them, but there is a reason that you have the ability to put that text in there. for those who refuse to read them, or read them and try to join anyway, yeah, i view that as a jerkish. i get rather annoyed when i'm trying to teach a quest, i say "casual pace, team players only, new players welcome" and someone joins and zergs the entire quest before anyone can learn anything. is that person being a jerk? in my mind, yeah. i'm not going to sit there and yell at him should it happen. i'll tell the party i wish we would have followed directions and stuck together, and i just won't group with the zerger again.

I don't quite understand anyone who claims not to have read the LFM before joining. If they joined via the LFM panel, they clearly found the LFM and read enough to decide they wanted to be in your group. I think these people who "didn't read" the LFM really read it but decided that their own interests outweighed yours, and that sort of selfishness doesn't belong in a multi-player game. (The only exception would be if the instructions in the LFM were written in cryptic acronyms that not everyone would recognize. It doesn't sound from the descriptions given as though that were the case for either your example or Vint's, but it's likely the case for some groups.)

If an LFM says you should know the quest, then joining is an agreement that you know the quest. If an LFM says it will be at a casual pace suitable for new players, then by joining you're agreeing to go at a casual pace suitable for new players. If you don't quite meet the stated requirements, then you can ask the group leader if they're willing to accommodate you, but you need to be honest with them from the outset, before you join. Simply joining and then expecting the whole group to change their plans for you after you're in the middle of the quest is rude and selfish.

Now I too want a great deal of my gaming time to revolve around my own goals and interests, and that's why I solo a lot of material (as well as why I also play a lot of single-player games). When I join or form a group, though, the goal is to make sure that everyone gets what they need out of it, and that's not possible if people join under false pretenses so the group ends up working at cross-purposes. Grouping is for working together towards a common goal, and when everyone treats it that way, it's the sort of great experience that makes multi-player games so popular. When people get so tied up in their own concerns that they join a group without consideration of the other players in that group, it leads to a frustrating experience for all involved.

[Galeria]

For those being harassed, simply take off your headphones or unplug your speakers and let the harasser know you can no longer hear him/her.

He/she will then resort to typing their insults and abuse into party chat, which is what you want.

You can then report that to the DM through the help button and let them review it and decide if it was appropriate or not.

As much as we'd like to self regulate attitudes in the game, it's really up to Turbine support to decide what's allowed and what isn't. Not that you should report every crabby person on the game, but if someone is regularly abusive, reporting them is the only way to get them removed/suspended from the game.

"Letting it go" and saying to yourself, I'll just squelch them so they are someone else's problem doesn't help anything in the long run. Most of the people saying "grow a thicker skin" are the ones who like telling people off and think it's perfectly OK to ruin someone else's game.

I'm not terribly thin skinned, can take or leave advice but am always polite about it and will put up with noobs and even outright oddballs but I won't stand for being attacked or insulted and no one else should either.

I have asked people to leave the group if they joined under false pretenses- that's not the same as being a jerk. If someone joins with no idea when asked to know the quest, in my mind that's the same as joining a quest you aren't flagged for. Thanks for your interest, but you need to leave now.

Again, that doesn't make someone a jerk, either joining something they shouldn't or asking them to leave. Most people who join just didn't pay attention (like the many, many seasoned players who join then say, "Whoops, sorry, I'm not flagged.") and asking them to leave doesn't have to be agressive.

[parvo]

It's been three years since I pugged anything. Back then, I pugged to 14 in six weeks. I only met two bad groups. Overall it wasn't that bad. I imagine now, everyone thinks they are a flippin expert and therefore have thier own wasy of doing stuff.

[Eleia]

Should people accept these bad attitudes as part of their experience in an online game like DDO? Should they expect it? Do you believe you have the right to be insulting, aggressive or arrogant? Why? Is it possibly because it is your time and maybe money thats being invested?

Is it so wrong to accept that this is just a game we all have the option to play or not, to pay for or not, and should never become personal enough to attack others? Is it wrong to believe that people have the right to play a game without harassment? If someone is playing badly or stupidly in your perception shouldn't you just learn from the experience with that person instead of flaming them or belittling them?

Should people accept bad behavior in mmorpgs? In a way, yes. It'll drive you crazy if you don't. Do people have the right? Basically yes, we all do. Should we roll over and die because of it? Grit our teeth and deal with it, of course not.

We have a hard time regulating our behavior in real life, on the net it's the wild west.
I've been gaming for ten years now, and have watched gamers get worse and worse. I don't like it, I don't act that way, and just like in real life I have a right to not be around it.

Everyone has the right to do what they want to do although there are repercussions. People have a right to be jerks, and I have a right to tell them what they can do with themselves.

Report them, leave the group, ignore them, and find the people you enjoy playing with and add them to the friends list. That's what it's there for.

However, just like in real life, don't expect to "rock their world" and change their behavior, just disinvolve yourself frome it.

** sorry for spelling, just woke up.**

[Kahath]

Should people accept these bad attitudes as part of their experience in an online game like DDO? Should they expect it? Do you believe you have the right to be insulting, aggressive or arrogant? Why? Is it possibly because it is your time and maybe money thats being invested?

Is it so wrong to accept that this is just a game we all have the option to play or not, to pay for or not, and should never become personal enough to attack others? Is it wrong to believe that people have the right to play a game without harassment? If someone is playing badly or stupidly in your perception shouldn't you just learn from the experience with that person instead of flaming them or belittling them?

I do not understand why people are shocked, awed, or upset when they converse with (random) people and find some examples with unpleasant human characteristics. The bigger a selected group of such random persons becomes, the likely it is that aggressive, arrogant, insulting, racist, ignorant et.al. people are among them. It's not a big deal. Ignore them, and go on playing.

/now what does that say about me?

[grayham]

This is what made me post this thread

http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=319108

The 2 incidents bad-good happened within a week of each other. The world contains idiots with their flaws, but DDO can exacerbate this through:

1) Offering the illusion of power/achievement in real life through a game.
2) The anonymity of the internet. It's easier to type insults when no-one can see you or knows your real name.
3) Allowing a huge diversity of playing styles and ability, without a mechanism to balance expectations (beyond the LFM message)

Oh, in reference to point 1, if you've had fun playing DDO, laughed, made friends and 'escaped' for a while then that is the greatest success.

[Ungood]

I wait for the right times normally before I respond to people.

Case in point, I join a Shroud run about a week ago, and get the most rude leader I have ever met, now I know the drill in shroud, and have done is quite a bit, but, as would be, things go bad, they did not clear the way to the crystal, so I am mid fight a few mobs, having some issues with that, and still not really used to the changes they did to arcane, anyway, ( I need to fix my main a bit in that regard) I lay three fire walls in a circle around the crystal, and then try to save my own life, now, as this is going down, half the group is dying around me, after I tied to do some damage with my SLA to the fire Elemental and buff the group, so, there I am at the crystal and I get tripped (which I hate and it seems the clerics did not cast FoM on me, I can only guess to save the their SP for the rest of the party that was dying anyway) this guy starts going off on how great his arcane is, how he solo's ALL his raids, and blah, blah. Right. As typical of his kind, his profile is anon so I assume he is a total losers. So I am like, ok show me how great you are, if you are so great. Nothing came of that. No surprise to me. So this guy is a blowhard as far as I care.

Then, lo and behold, I see him running s Shroud run, and get this, his arcane is not the solo arcane. After he was telling how great he is, and how he solos all his raids, and such, so I call him on it. And Hilarity ensues. he challenges me to do eVON. and says I need to go first, I call him a chicken and tell him to prove his worth. and get this, he says. No, because then I'll see how to do it, I call him a lamer parrot, which he does not deny, at least he was smart enough to realize what he was. and I go back to the fact he is not solo in shroud, and he tells me that this is his scroll farmer, so if this is your scroll farmer why is he running shroud? and if he running Shroud why is he not solo arcane, and he says "he is not good at pugging" which translates to me "I need people to carry me" what goes on, is a solid 45 min of him trying to say he so much better then I am and that I need to prove I am better then he is. Yes, that is the level of stupidity I had to deal with with someone claiming to be a vet in the game.

So, what did this do? Well, it did kill most of the (if I had any left it kill that too) respect I could garner for this poor sap who has to get on a MMO, lie and prance around to try and make themselves feel better and then claiming to be a doctor of some sort.

So, what does all this mean? Well, unlike real life where some one insults you they have the brass ones to to say it to your face, and thus deserve respect for that alone, people on MMO's who act like this are mostly sad pathetic people who need to be put down in a nice way, much like you would tell an attention ***** "No one cares about your hollow meaningless life"