ToD Sav Sets

[fuzzy1guy]

Are these things ever going to actually do the stuff they say?

+5% crit chance. (1% less than the stupid cove dagger) and .5 mult. (of which .25 only seems to work above regular lore) Sure dont seem to crit more with the set on.

Set bonus. This set will add an extra +2 caster levels to any spells of your element. This doesnt work at all near as i can tell. It doesnt even change whats reported in the combat log for casting level on a savant.


Why exactly are we wasting (+/-)9 runs for trophys. Ton more for the ring unless you're lucky And find the belt(easy). All for an extra .25 mult?

Devs ever gonna fix this? It gonna stay like this? Did i waste months of time to get this stuff that dont work and never will?

[fuzzy1guy]

And then theres this....

[Viisari]

They're not supposed to raise your caster level by 2, they raise maximum caster level of spells by 2, see the difference?

[Sweetpea]

And then theres this....

have to ask... this happens only when you have the sav set equipped? or all the time?

[Arctigis]

They're not supposed to raise your caster level by 2, they raise maximum caster level of spells by 2, see the difference?

This. Already reported (by someone I trust, Junts) that the ToD set does work on increasing max. caster level.

[Ridag]

I still don't like the fact that Savants need to have their ToD set to get 5/6 of the full benefit of their PRE, instead of just 1/2.

I also think that the whole +CL and +MCL thing is unnecessarily confusing and clumsy.

[fluffybunnywilson]

I want the ToD rings for my casters the +3 exceptional stat bonus.

Greater Arcane Lore from a Skivver or Greenblade gives +9% crit chance and +0.25 critical multiplier.

The ToD set bonus for Archmage gives +5% critical chance and +0.5 critical multiplier.

DDO will use the higest value available, so holding a Greenblade and wearing the Archmage set will result in +9% crit chance and +0.5 crit multiplier.


Edit: I mentioned the Archmage set because it gives that bonus to all spells, but the Elemental Savant sets do exactly the same thing within their element.

[Raiderone]

I think the belts should be at least Archmage instead of Wiz VI.

[shagath]

I think the belts should be at least Archmage instead of Wiz VI.

Totally agreed.

I also think that max cl and cl are clumsy solutions. It would be at least a bit better if you could actually see from combat log whats your actual cl for a spell in question, not just your caster level, the spell caster level.. I made it sound even more confusing.

[Isharah]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but at least before this Monday's update, I remember seeing how DDO shows what CL you are casting some spell with in the combat log. What it doesn't show though is the maximum caster level you could attain for the spell.

For example, I remember reading something like this: You begin to cast Polar Ray at level 29.

Though it is quite misleading because considering my toon's gear, the caster level for polar ray caps at 28 (25 + 3 from water savant).

[soulaeon]

The entire Savant set is crummy except for the set bonus. It seems like I would have to downgrade a lot of gear just to get it.
5% critical chance and .25 multiplier? And, what is with Wizardry? Even the Glacial set is much better, and it doesnt take as much hard work to get access to those.

[Shade]

This. Already reported (by someone I trust, Junts) that the ToD set does work on increasing max. caster level.

mm as you've reported yourself.. +MCL only works on select spells.

And while im sure junts tested at least 1 set, and probably a couple related spells. Theres no way he tested every set/spell.

Extremely broken pre right now.

Really should just take my suggestion and eliminate max CL period on lvl6+ savant spells, and have the set provide a REAL WORKING stackable bonus like:
+3% crits
+.25 multi
+100 SP (50 for wiz)
+3 CL (only if you have savant III of matching element)

That would be the worth wasting the 2 slots for. vs The current:
+0% crits (doesnt stack with what were already using)
+0 multi (again non stacking)
+0 SP (Yes i have a shroud SP item like everyone else)
+?????? MCL on some spells? maybe? probably? no ones really sure. All we know for sure, is we can't notice the effect since its so **** small.

Fix this.

[ProdigalGuru]

The set bonus does not stack with item enhancement bonuses?

It should...

Don't all other set bonuses stack with everything?

If you have a Major Lore item, and the set, you should have +14% Crit chance, and +1.0x multiplier + Enhancements.

These sets in particular are supposed to be endgame equipment.

Sounds like a bug to me.

Plus, regardless of how clunky the CL/MCL mechanic is, while it is in play it should work properly, and to it's full extent.

The Savant III extended Set Bonus should be +4 instead of +3, so it fills the entire gap.

[Shade]

The set bonus does not stack with item enhancement bonuses?

Not a single caster/spell related boosting itme in the game stacks. Period. The devs always intended them to, but they can't figure out how to make it work so were stuck with this poor loot.

Don't all other set bonuses stack with everything?

Most melee ones do yea. No caster sets do.

The Savant III extended Set Bonus should be +4 instead of +3, so it fills the entire gap.

um that doesn't quite fill the entire gap. Some spells cap at 10. So if we wanted ANY benefit out of +CL bonus from savant, we would need a +11 or more caster levels... Or +16 max CL to get the full benefit. It's just such a messy needlessly complex system that should of been done differently.

[ProdigalGuru]

I was just basing my number off the 5/6 ratio that I have seen posted several times, regarding the CL/MCL ratio, and my intent was to suggest that this gap be filled, regardless of what the actual +necessary would be.

After I posted, I considered what the impact of stacking crit bonuses might be, and can see why the devs are hesitant to give us such high crit chance and multipliers. The damage would probably be too much, too often.

I can also see the utility factor in the set bonuses, by not NEEDING to carry a major lore item, the problem is that other gear outclasses it, so min/maxers are seeing this stuff as wasted. If you are willing to settle for 5%/.25, you get a free hand for a Green Steel. If you are willing to live without Sup. Potency, and only damage boost your element, you could have 2 free hands for Green Steel.

While this choice may not be max DPS for all your spells, you keep your strengths, add some utility, but your weaker elements lose a bit more. This is assuming you can slot Archmagi somewhere other than a weapon, or are willing to live without that as well.

Currently, casters are shooting for Archmagi, Sup. Potency X, and Greater Arcane Lore to cap their damage potential, which stands to reason. I am undecided as to whether the loss of 100 SP and weaker off-elements is acceptable for MY Savant, but on paper it does not seem like a huge loss. On average, I spend WAY more SP buffing (raids especially) than I do slinging spells, thanks to the SLA's; and I rarely run out of mana, even on boss fights. The only SP challenges I have faced are in quests where my main element is useless and I have to rely on full-cost off-elements with Max/Emp/Heighten. Similarly, quests where I revert to a lot of Necro/Banish, or CC tend to drain my blue bar pretty fast. Honestly, I think this is by design.

I would like to see the ToD sets close the CL/MCL gap for Tier III Savants, have Archmagi, and Major Lore for their element to definitively make them a "good" choice.

[Junts]

mm as you've reported yourself.. +MCL only works on select spells.

And while im sure junts tested at least 1 set, and probably a couple related spells. Theres no way he tested every set/spell.

Extremely broken pre right now.

Really should just take my suggestion and eliminate max CL period on lvl6+ savant spells, and have the set provide a REAL WORKING stackable bonus like:
+3% crits
+.25 multi
+100 SP (50 for wiz)
+3 CL (only if you have savant III of matching element)

That would be the worth wasting the 2 slots for. vs The current:
+0% crits (doesnt stack with what were already using)
+0 multi (again non stacking)
+0 SP (Yes i have a shroud SP item like everyone else)
+?????? MCL on some spells? maybe? probably? no ones really sure. All we know for sure, is we can't notice the effect since its so **** small.

Fix this.

I haven't tested the other 3 savants (though I hvae all 4 rings, so I guess I could if i was bored), but the +mcl works as its supposed to on every spell in the 'air spells' category with a scaling damage component, in the fashions that those spells damages scale (eg its a very small change for 1d6 + 1/level, slightly noticable for something that does +1d6/2 levels (like electric loop_ and very noticable on spells that gain whole 1d6s per level (lightning bolt or chain or ball etc).

That the impact is different for different spells isnt a problem. The spells that scale better are supposed to improve faster, and they're generally also single-shot spells (outside of acid rain at least) with no added effects.

The only spell who's +mcl bonus is 'hard to use' is polar ray, but it's still usable by acquiring other equipment (eg abishai, etc).

The +mcl benefits are a huge boost in damage - moving a spell from 20d6 to 22d6 increases its whole damgae output by 10% (and in that situation is roughly a 600 to 660 base damage increase, pre-crit). While its a smaller 'percentage' for these spells (eg 23d6 to 25d6 vs 13d6 to 15d6), its the same -size- bonus for each spell.

These bonuses are particularly poor for acid because none of their spells scale 1d6 per levle besides acid rain and acid blast. They;'re particularly great for electric and cold which both have a bunch of 1d6 per level spells (or, in the case of cold ,a 1d10 per level spell that's free on a 2s cooldown!). SLA Niacs is the bst part of cold savant.

The reason that you gain more 'caster levels' than max caster levels are the following:

1: it helps splashed savants keep up with or be better than wizards, still
2: it makes the rare spells that do scale past level 20better
3: it helps spells in your descriptor (like flesh to stone) bypass spell resistance very well
4: it makes savant spells a lot stronger during leveling when they aren't hitting their spell caps

The +6 caster level has a lot of benefits. Having it also be +6 max cater level would be like a 310% damage bonus on very spell vs what we get now -you'd see non-crit castings for nearly 1000. It'd be really insanely overpowered. Caster damage is extremely good now, removing the caster level caps from spells would really send it through the stratosphere.

[Arctigis]

mm as you've reported yourself.. +MCL only works on select spells.

And while im sure junts tested at least 1 set, and probably a couple related spells. Theres no way he tested every set/spell.

Right. You're right that, I was not specific enough; the +MCL from the ToD set does seem to be applied BUT
+MCL does not work on all the spells that it should. AFAIK, Shocking Grasp, CoC and both L5 DoT's still
do not scale post 9.1.

[fuzzy1guy]

I don't really care what the sets do... So long as they do work. But right now they dont really do jack.
Not really worth all the grind to complete and upgrade. And even more, not worth using the savant set when other rings have more useful stats. Sure isnt worth 2 item slots either.

Not what i'd expect from THE endgame raid.


Fix them or change them to something that will be allowed to work. And make that actually work.

Or at least stick a message on the rings/belts when you pick them up. Add it into the info that tells you it binds when you pick it up. "Hey by the way, this set is almost completely useless and you're wasting your time getting it. haha."

Personally i'd say just fix them so the tod sets DO stack. yeah you get another .5 and 5%. Drop that whole cl/mcl **** completely.

Just gettin real tired of long term broken stuff...

[Merlocke]

But right now they dont really do jack.

Yup. Caster gear has been pretty horrible for a long time. Had greater Arcane lore since GH. Each update it gets worse. I dont think the people making the loot have ever played an actual arcane.

[Shade]

20d6 to 22d6 increases its whole damgae output by 10% (and in that situation is roughly a 600 to 660 base damage increase, pre-crit).

what the ?????
Not sure who did your math, but thats some crazy talk.
Sorry but +2d6 does not equal 660.

If you have max gear/enhancements/feats/everything.. Your base damage bumps up roughly 700% on average, and thats even accounting for crits.
So 2d6 = 7*7 = 49 extra damage on average. Not 660.
The bonuses are pathetic.

The +6 caster level has a lot of benefits. Having it also be +6 max cater level would be like a 310% damage bonus on very spell vs what we get now -you'd see non-crit castings for nearly 1000.

... For polar ray yea.
Thats why savants are broken.
1 awesome spell, for 1 savant while the other 3 have **** damage.
Guess what, polar ray maxxed out already does nearly 1000 non crit damage. (and that only represents about a 200 point increase from U9, not +660)
The fact the other savants have no spells even close to that is a problem, not the other way around.

Sorcs are still limited by SP, cooldown and casting spells. At endgame 99% still can't compete with my mleee, they are not that powerful.

Maybe if you compared them to a gimpy paladin dps, sure..
But think of things on the max melee dps scale, sorcs are still lacking in burst damage, to the point where the best ones are stil relying on freakin insta kills to clear trash - its just dumb to have savants forced to play like palemasters.
Letting them actually get there full benefits on more then just 1 spell would jus bring them in line, not break anything.