And There Goes the Carrot...

[Pfold]

A few things I have noticed so far...

Some Shards are no longer there, namely vampirism and the absorbtion items; there are probably more but it's 1am. I'm not really surprised by this. Why even mention this? Well, Vampirism was an intergral part of leveling my crafting. I'm curious, what took its place? At that particular level and cost?

The absorbtion items are less of an issue to me because they were higher up. It is kind of annoying to see something and then have it removed. I'm sure they'll add it to the 76-100 phase, maybe...

I'm sure there's a couple of more but I'm too tired atm.

Skimming through the patch notes I see nothing of the changes.

While crafting is in this 'beta' form, it would be nice to have the changes that are being implemented notated in the patch notes. Other changes were mentioned there (such as raising the ml). I don't think having these changes mentioned is too much of a request, especially when they had 8 additional hours to mention them.

The process now really seems much more trouble than what it's worth. Personally, between the ml increases and the crafting level required to obtain certain items I'm better off sticking to GS on characters that haven't completed their epic weapons yet.

Crafting seems as if it has been totally removed from the new player. You cannot use anything until level 5 and even then what is there that you cannot find better via rng?

[ProdigalGuru]

It makes sense to me that this is WAI.

They likely do not want folks burning through low level content unscathed any faster than they already do.

There are meant to be time sinks to keep you playing longer, and from a financial standpoint it makes sense to not give F2P players a leg up in favor farming, considering they contribute nothing to the game besides more server load.

[Pfold]

I understand it is a time sink. My only point is they should at least dress it up a little better because as it is it's pretty terrible.

[ProdigalGuru]

You can totally use newly crafted items at level 1, given that it is the proper ML after being crafted.

The level 5 referred to in the patch notes is the maximum enhancement level on blanks.

And FWIW, I do not think they ever intended for the new crafting to replace Green Steel crafting.

It will all make more sense to you in the morning, I promise.

[Pfold]

You can totally use newly crafted items at level 1, given that it is the proper ML after being crafted.

The level 5 referred to in the patch notes is the maximum enhancement level on blanks.

And FWIW, I do not think they ever intended for the new crafting to replace Green Steel crafting.

It will all make more sense to you in the morning, I promise.

I was more inclined of using crafted items on a tr pre level 12. Not any more. Items I crafted previously to fill in for levels 1-12 have all had the minimum level requirements raised. One in particular was ml9 and is now ml 15. It is/was nowhere near as powerful as a lit2 or min2 GS, trust me.

If you can make a +x y weapon with a ml of 1, well you're definitely a better crafter than I. I'm not debating you can craft a ml 1 i item. Can you craft a useful ml 1 item? As far as I know now: rng>crafting =what's the point?

Vampirism was nice where it was located as far as crafting level and materials cost, nevermind the effect on a weapon. They could have easily just upped the minimum level required as a suffix on a weapon and left it at that. However, not only did they raise the level of the effect itself but also removed it from 1-75 crafting. Were we getting too much xp from it? If the effect is that overpowered wouldn't just raising the ml been sufficient? Apparently the experience drawn from crafting the shard must have been op also /shrug

I'll go ahead and apologize beforehand if you think I am hung up on the vampirism note. I'm not. I just refuse to investigate any further and that one in particular sticks out because of the number of times I crafted it capping out 2 characters to level 50. I'm using it as an example.

As far as crafting replacing gs? That wasn'tmy intention. However, it was my intention to make a few specialized weapons for particular battles. Not anymore.

I'll just wait until 'beta' is over and people decide what crafting will finally be.

[ProdigalGuru]

I was more inclined of using crafted items on a tr pre level 12. Not any more. Items I crafted previously to fill in for levels 1-12 have all had the minimum level requirements raised. One in particular was ml9 and is now ml 15. It is/was nowhere near as powerful as a lit2 or min2 GS, trust me.

If you can make a +x y weapon with a ml of 1, well you're definitely a better crafter than I. I'm not debating you can craft a ml 1 i item. Can you craft a useful ml 1 item? As far as I know now: rng>crafting =what's the point?

Vampirism was nice where it was located as far as crafting level and materials cost, nevermind the effect on a weapon. They could have easily just upped the minimum level required as a suffix on a weapon and left it at that. However, not only did they raise the level of the effect itself but also removed it from 1-75 crafting. Were we getting too much xp from it? If the effect is that overpowered wouldn't just raising the ml been sufficient? Apparently the experience drawn from crafting the shard must have been op also /shrug

I'll go ahead and apologize beforehand if you think I am hung up on the vampirism note. I'm not. I just refuse to investigate any further and that one in particular sticks out because of the number of times I crafted it capping out 2 characters to level 50. I'm using it as an example.

As far as crafting replacing gs? That wasn'tmy intention. However, it was my intention to make a few specialized weapons for particular battles. Not anymore.

I'll just wait until 'beta' is over and people decide what crafting will finally be.

I think you are kind of missing what I am saying.

This crafting system was NEVER INTENDED to replace Green Steel to begin with. That would have been a HORRIBLE business decision on their part. The basic design was to give players the ability to custom build items that were equivalent to random loot drops, without the heavy grind for a specific item, or the money to buy said item off another player. They replaced this grind with a different one to compensate for the lack of time sink, but I digress...

You are essentially trying to compare dual-shard Tier 3 Green Steel to random loot, which is apples and oranges. NO random loot OR crafted item is going to stack the amount of effects and bonuses that GS can. This is by design.

The fact that your items increased in ML means that you chose affixes that were over-powered for their level, and you can simply create lesser versions of these items to fit your ML parameters, or choose different, less powerful affixes.

For the record, NO ML 1 item is going to be all that useful in ANY case, be it crafted or random loot. Gold frame items from rare loot drops break this norm. It is what makes them rare and desirable. I can't craft a ML1 +x, y of z, but I could create a Trinket with a minor affix at ML 1, or a +1 Longsword, and this is totally appropriate for the level. I am sure I could create a +x, y of z that had a ML of 8-10, however, and this is also perfectly reasonable. What is NOT reasonable is assuming that it should be possible to create a +x, y burst of greater z, and still retain that ML.

You were not getting too much XP from Vampirism, it was deemed too powerful for it's level, and was adjusted accordingly. You KNEW it was too powerful yourself, as well, that is likely why you crafted it in the first place. Trust me that I understand. I really wanted a low ML item with Negative Energy Absorption, but that is because it was obviously too powerful for it's level.

You are still able to create powerful (but level appropriate) items, custom made for your character's need, and that is crafting fulfilling it's purpose. You have simply thrown in the towel too quickly in a knee-jerk response to having something you made changed. Plus, there are plenty of other shards to craft for XP, so you are making a mountain out of a molehill.

[Pfold]

I'm not sure where it was I said or implied that crafting was to replace gs. You keep bringing it up though so I thought it was only fair to address your statement. Apparently you only are looking for someone to have the last word with.

Again, as I have said twice before, I could care less about vampirism on the weapon. For a third time now, my concern was "what replaces vampirism in crafting?". One more time, I could care less about how op vampirism is on a weapon of any level, I was only addressing it's absence at shard creation.

As far as items without a ml that are useful as far as rng items are concerned, they DO exist. They are bound items but they do exist contrary to what you would have me believe. If you don't think so then apparently you haven't played any of the chain quests.

Maybe if you spent some time reading my op in its entiruty instead of formulating an opinion of my thoughts based on a selective snippet here or there you wouldn't find yourself annoying other people.

[simsiim]

Yeah I started a new character and thought why not just craft something for them. Anything that would had been very useful for them they would not be able to, as a useful item, because it would be an ML5 or ML7, which at lvl 8 that item is no longer useful.. And none of it would had been over powering to begin with, specially when I could, if lucky enough can get the same from generic loot.
Crafting was just a better way of getting your generic to be more useful..

Funny you mentioned Vampirism, I had one weapon (on Lamannia) I had crafted that into, it was ML15, the character that uses it lvl 16, after U9.1, that weapon became ML20. I was like what ever, I was interested in other things that at that time recrafting that to have a lower ML was not important, So I did not know that Vampirism was changed , so the chance of me recrafting is nonresistant now (from what I’m reading here), might have to log back in Lamannia to check that out.
I had also noticed the ML seemed higher on other things, specially when I was on Lamannia during the Updating period of Live, and wanted to craft all the gear for the New creation and discovered, and it was just then that I realized ML was increased, that There was no reason to craft anything low level, those recipes are totally useless.
So crafting is just a high level thing, I dunno, do we blame the Mourlands for this because everyone that is invited there are only playing high levels and can careless about the low levels . . Naaa. j/k

I did find that some of the combination's were fix that they did match the same ML as the ones I got from generic, they were no longer a 1 ML higher then it’s generic loot drop but some combination's it seems the ML was increased. Because they were Useful ?? Not overpowering just useful

[fluffybunnywilson]

So far, the only weapons that I thought were worth crafting were
[Prefix] of Vampirism/Lesser Vampirism for leveling
Holy Silver of Lawful Outsider Bane/Greater Lawful Outsider Bane
Holy Cold Iron of Chaotic Outsider Bane

...and I honestly wasn't even going to bother with the Chaotic bane weapon.

Bodyfeeder of Lesser Vampirism would have been a very nice twink weapon. Especially now that hireling AI has gotten even worse since the U9 release.

I understand that Turbine doesn't want to make crafting overpowered, but if they're not going to put in anything that is actually worth crafting other than the pit fiend beaters now, then I'm probably going to stop bothering with the whole thing.

[redspecter23]

I have to agree with the main point here. The devs seemed to tease us with at least a few very nice abilities that we couldn't normally get on random loot drops. Lifestealing, Vampirism, Absorption and at least a few others that I'm afraid to even bring up for fear they get dropped from the crafting table as well. If the cool unique abilities are removed then what you're left with is a system for making twink loot (with a higher min level than randomly looted twink loot) and boss beaters so basically it's a crafting system for boss beaters. I'd really like to see all the unique abilites come back even if the crafting level and minimum levels need to be adjusted for balance. Outright removal just makes me sad.

[Ungood]

I have to agree with the main point here. The devs seemed to tease us with at least a few very nice abilities that we couldn't normally get on random loot drops. Lifestealing, Vampirism, Absorption and at least a few others that I'm afraid to even bring up for fear they get dropped from the crafting table as well. If the cool unique abilities are removed then what you're left with is a system for making twink loot (with a higher min level than randomly looted twink loot) and boss beaters so basically it's a crafting system for boss beaters. I'd really like to see all the unique abilites come back even if the crafting level and minimum levels need to be adjusted for balance. Outright removal just makes me sad.

I blame all the people that made of a fuss that you could make better items with crafting then you could get from raids for this change.

But, you know how it is, some people will never be happy no matter what you do.

[Veileira]

Yeah if you can't make better from crafting than from raids then maybe have a look at raid loot and notice the game's changed since then?

If epic (ml20) crafting doesn't rival epic drops what's the point?

If you can't take a level 3 character, craft a TON on it, and make an amazing piece of twink gear, why craft?

Right now the only thing I'm 100% happy with is being able to make armor/robes for my lowbie levels and not be stuck with something awful-looking that has the stats I wanted. But if the ml is raised too high on what I want to make (at least equivalent to random drop) then that's going to be useless.

How do we calculate the ml and plan out our lowbie gear with this system?

Seems to be just a plat sink and I'm not sure I have the plat to waste on a system that doesn't work for what I need it to do when I haven't even made my first greensteel item.

[Jahmin]

If epic (ml20) crafting doesn't rival epic drops what's the point?

Do not confuse Epic with ml20

[Ungood]

Right now the only thing I'm 100% happy with is being able to make armor/robes for my lowbie levels and not be stuck with something awful-looking that has the stats I wanted.

I would too! In fact this is what I wanted.

But with the changed they put in, this run, it is no longer even a valid alternative to random-dropped loot, due to the whole ML going though the roof, and the need to make these new shards of potential (Well to be honest, I don't mind the shards of potential so much, but at this point they are just an extra annoyance)

[Missing_Minds]

Some Shards are no longer there, namely vampirism and the absorbtion items; there are probably more but it's 1am. I'm not really surprised by this. Why even mention this? Well, Vampirism was an intergral part of leveling my crafting. I'm curious, what took its place? At that particular level and cost?

*scratches head* I could have sworn I saw vamp last night. Just out of my crafting range, but it was there. I was doing lessers though.

[Seikojin]

You do have to remember that each and every shard will be tweaked. I am sure taking them out is to keep the game from getting flooded with the item before its cost is comparable to its actual power, not statistical power (level of ability).

[Aeolwind]

*scratches head* I could have sworn I saw vamp last night. Just out of my crafting range, but it was there. I was doing lessers though.

If it is gone, i want the one responsible sacked. Then the ones who sacked him to be sacked for not sacking him well enough.

[simsiim]

Originally Posted by Missing_Minds
*scratches head* I could have sworn I saw vamp last night. Just out of my crafting range, but it was there. I was doing lessers though.

If it is gone, i want the one responsible sacked. Then the ones who sacked him to be sacked for not sacking him well enough.

it is gone and lesser Vamp the level to craft it has been increased.

When I was reading this topic earlier, I thought I saw Vamp, and nothing has changed, so I logged in to Lamannia, thinking I might had missed seeing it, It's still there, level 43 (I think that was what was needed) for Vampirism, and 20 something for Lesser. So I was confused, I fiddled with some crafting while I was there, then logged in Live just to see if there was a change between what was 9.1 lamannia and 9.1 Live.
There was
now no Vampirism, and will need level 46 just to craft Lesser vampirism

I guess affects that have more useful purpose but not over powering is considered to be something that should be harder to obtain, and just has to have a higher ML

why the change between Lamannia 9.1 and Live 9.1 I dunno, but what I previewed and commented on in Lamannia is not what is on Live

[hermespan]

A few things I have noticed so far...

Some Shards are no longer there, namely vampirism and the absorbtion items;

I have heard through the grapevine that they only intended to allow crafting of lesser.

Vampirism 1d3 healing is an epic level mod and this crafting system isn't supposed to let you craft stuff that is in the same league as epic items.

[TPICKRELL]

*scratches head* I could have sworn I saw vamp last night. Just out of my crafting range, but it was there. I was doing lessers though.

The shard reicpe is gone, but you can still see it in the weapon crafting station.

I was able to craft a set of +2 Holy Handwraps of Vamprism last night from an older shard. But I could not make another Vampirism shard.