Craftable Tome Copying Kit?

[zukt]

So currently, and since TR has been introduced, there has been much angst by some about how the inherent bonus from tomes is lost when a character TRs. This wouldn't be a big deal if the +3 and +4 tomes had drop rates similar to +2 tomes and were unbound, but as is +3 and +4 are very rare raid loot.

I'm somewhat opposed to changing the drop rates, because when a +3 or +4 drops currently its very exciting. But because of the way the TR system works currently, what often happens is that tome ends up sitting in the bank. If someone acquires a backup tome, then perhaps they will use it or if they have decided they are never going to TR the toon, they may also use it, but the current implementation in effect means that there's a category of raid loot that is largely effectively useless for how people actually play.

I'd like to propose a craftable tome copying kit, utilizing soul gems, gems, item essences, and/or perhaps epic tokens. This would be used to make a copy of a tome that would be bound to character, and would be incrementally more costly/difficult to craft depending on the bonus. Turbine could profit by selling kits or parts of the kits the way they sell hearts of wood for the impatient.

Perhaps skill levels could be added for scribing tomes in a similar manner that the new crafting system has skill levels for items.

Under this implementation, a player would still have a motivation for acquiring a +3 or +4 tome from loot or end rewards, as crafting a copy would take effort and resources. But it would also allow players to actually use their tomes and leave a library to their heirs.

Apologies for the subject that I imagine has been discussed to death, but I'm not sure this has been suggested yet.

[Lithic]

Any suggestion that lets you keep a tome bonus through TRing would be great for me.

The one problem I see with your suggestion is that there are BTA +3 tomes (and the possibility of such in the future). This would allow someone to copy a BTA tome, and move it to the next character to copy, etc, so that one BTA tome could be applied to that whole account. The process would have to turn BTA to BTC, or only be applicable to BTC tomes.

[dkyle]

I'm all for keeping tomes after TR, but this seems needlessly complicated (and potentially prone to exploit, as Lithic points out).

I'd rather they just treat tomes on TR they way they treat them on LR/GR. Apply them as you level up. Perhaps only apply it to +3/+4, and only start applying at level 11 for the +3 (then level 15 for +4), to protect the store +1/+2 tomes.

[Chai]

I feel it would need to be made so that it wasnt a limitless source of tomes for basically free.

[zukt]

Well the notion is that it would be limitless the way true hearts are limitless. It wouldn't be free, it would still be a grind or ddo points to get. You could buy them with ddo points or farm epics. You have to actually loot a tome to be able to use it. I agree that bta tomes would be an exploit if you could copy them.

It could be complicated or simple. Another option could be a tome scribing kit. If you have an inherent bonus, you can scribe a tome bound to character with that same inherent bonus. So if you've read a +3 tome, your toon could scribe a +3 tome for the next life, if they buy or craft the scribe kit the way they buy or craft a heart of wood.

If you get an extra +3 on an end reward, it saves you the trouble of running another 20 epics (or whatever) to copy/scribe your tome for your next life.

What I know now is whenever I get a tome, it goes strait into the bank, which isn't good.

[skunk]

/not signed.

TR = new toon getting more powerful. No need to keep Tomes. they let you TR for free with epic tokens. No need to let you get your tomes back.

Next. Just no... Its not Turbines fault you won't use your tome. I use +2 tomes i find. I don't care about most +1 tomes. They are worthless when starting at level 4.

[dkyle]

Next. Just no... Its not Turbines fault you won't use your tome. I use +2 tomes i find. I don't care about most +1 tomes. They are worthless when starting at level 4.

I notice you didn't mention +3 or +4 tomes.

I don't care about losing +1 or +2 tomes. I doubt any poster in this thread does.

[jhorn02]

Wow, a lot of negativity for a fairly reasonable suggestion. Considering the number of complaints I've read about losing tomes when TRing, this is obviously something that a large % of the player base would like.

This gives an option for those players that wish to grind our the tokens and/or pay Turbine the money (or whatever the end formula looks like)...and seems to be a reasonable middle ground between:
1) keep your tomes after TRing
or
2) don't keep your tomes after TRing

[theboatman]

Fairly reasonable is a term thrown around too often nowadays. It can either be reasonable, or not; there isnt a lot of gray area between the two.

I'm very certain that a large % of the player base would like to keep tomes through TR, just as a large % of the player base would like 28 point builds to become 30 point, and 32's to become 34's. Heck we shouldn't even cap at 36 any more, you should get two more build points for each new class past life, meaning a completionist would get a 52 point build.

Just because something is popular doesn't mean it is either correct or balanced. Tomes have a history in PnP of disappering once learned, due to their inherent magicalness. They work fine in their current implementation: they are a choice. You can choose to use them now, or save them for a life/build that needs them, or even hold onto them until you get to your last life. Making them carry over in any form or fashion through TR removes that choice.

And choices are something this game needs more of, not less.

[Sympl]

I don't care about most +1 tomes. They are worthless when starting at level 4.

LoL.

Enter Mister I-Do-Things-Outside-The-Box,

A) Even vet rolling you have the option to bail out at levels 1, 2 or 3, and if done properly and planned out, a +1 Tome to even out a necessary stat at level 3 can be quite worth it....and come on...level three to level four is like 1 hour tops if you know where to grind, yeah?

B) Even later on, if all you need and have planned for is an extra +1 DEX for some TWF or other STAT/feat prereq...

Heh and just to play the Devil's Advocate by offening a completely opposite and unbalancing suggestion, just for a lark: just have the +3 and +4 tomes avaible for sale in the store. It's bring in the dough, yeah? Win-win for the slackers. and anyone who still takes pride in *scoff* earning what they get....well who's stopping them?

*laugh* Ye gods wouldn't that be horrible....I still don't think you should be able to buy anything you can/should have to unlock in game until after you've done it once on one server. Unlock 32-pters and then you can buy em across all the servers if you like kind of thing.

[skunk]

LoL.

Enter Mister I-Do-Things-Outside-The-Box,

A) Even vet rolling you have the option to bail out at levels 1, 2 or 3, and if done properly and planned out, a +1 Tome to even out a necessary stat at level 3 can be quite worth it....and come on...level three to level four is like 1 hour tops if you know where to grind, yeah?

B) Even later on, if all you need and have planned for is an extra +1 DEX for some TWF or other STAT/feat prereq...

Heh and just to play the Devil's Advocate by offening a completely opposite and unbalancing suggestion, just for a lark: just have the +3 and +4 tomes avaible for sale in the store. It's bring in the dough, yeah? Win-win for the slackers. and anyone who still takes pride in *scoff* earning what they get....well who's stopping them?

*laugh* Ye gods wouldn't that be horrible....I still don't think you should be able to buy anything you can/should have to unlock in game until after you've done it once on one server. Unlock 32-pters and then you can buy em across all the servers if you like kind of thing.

Choices. You can choose to not use any tomes also? You chose to TR knowing you used a +3 or +4 tome. You make that choice not Turbine. You knowingly TR and you Knowingly know your going to lose them items. Guess its pretty simple IMHO. The choice is in your hands.

*yes you can drop at any level, or you could just farm a carnifex, and then just take TWF after you eat a +2 tome . Choices. *

Look, This game is a grind, i get it, i feel bad for you all, well almost. You don't need +4 tomes to be good. Sorry, that is min maxing, and that is your personal choice also. you got it once, you can choose to do it again. And before you ask, yes i Tred someone i ate tomes on. I plan on TRing that toon again when i hit 20, so i took 0 tomes. When i level him again. I will take 1 +2 Chr tome at level 7. (sorc). Thats it. Life goes on. If i get a +4 tome, i will most likely bank it if it isn't CHR. I may eat it if its CHR, might not. well see when i am on my 3rd life. (i also dont eat tomes for stats i don't need).

So still against this. >

(thought you could get from 1-4 in 2 hours did this change? WW and STK. I haven't rolled a level 1 in years lmao. and my TR i just did
as fun, was and isn't in a hurry to level.)

I +1ed you. You make me chuckle on a day i really could use it.

[ssgcmwatson]

How about something like a feat of Tome Combining Knowledge, which could be taken in place of a past life feat. A character with this feat could combine 10 "points worth" of a tome into a +3. (I'm flexible on the 10 points, just using it for an example).

I.E.
ten +1 Tomes of Wisdom, or five +2 Tomes of Wisdom (or some combination thereof) = One +3 Tome of Wisdom.

A similar (but much more expensive) thing for +4s