20th completion end reward design

[Corwinsky]

Currently list of end rewards for a 20th completion raid randomly choose the items between the whole list available. For raids that have lot of unique items like Tower of Despair a character can end with only very bad choices.
i.e a melee has the choice between savants, healers, thief acrobat rings, etc

To make it a real reward, considering the time and difficulty it takes to complete these quests the logic should be changed so that the prestige/class of the character are included by default in the list and the random factor applies only to the rest (7 out of 10 rings for ToD)

[Argila]

+1 and completely agree.

Done my 20th yesterday. The ring that i wanted? Nope, not it the list.

[Rheebus]

+1

/signed

[Phemt81]

+1 and completely agree.

Done my 20th yesterday. The ring that i wanted? Nope, not it the list.

Whaaaaaaaat?

You do 20 completions and do NOT receive the whole unique item reward list? What pack is TOD? Not gonna buy that

And i really hope only that pack use this awful system, i'd have sent a bug report when it happened to me the first time!

[somenewnoob]

/signed

(There is an inevitable "easy button" post coming from somebody soon!)

[Gkar]

Whaaaaaaaat?

You do 20 completions and do NOT receive the whole unique item reward list? What pack is TOD? Not gonna buy that

And i really hope only that pack use this awful system, i'd have sent a bug report when it happened to me the first time!

That's how all the raids work.

[Teharahma]

/signed

(There is an inevitable "easy button" post coming from somebody soon!)

Easy button!

[vermentto]

Do the "reward based on class" buttons works for 20th completion list ?
If not , an idea could be to link each item to a role/class.
So "torc" for example could be linked to cleric/fvs/sorc/wiz/pally/ranger's lists at 20th completion of ADQ.
And if you dont want to have the "class list" , u can still uncheck the option.

Otherwise , even if i got madstone boots on my healer , but not on my barb ( XD) i dont see much problem on this , in fact , i think its pretty cool to have that list.even with the wrong items.

[Phemt81]

That's how all the raids work.

Are you sure?

"Special raid reward for 20th completion is a choice from following;

* Bound stat tomes (1 for each stat appear in the list, can be +2 or +3)
* Essence of Cleansing which can remove Taint of Shavarath from your Green Steel Accessories"

From: http://ddowiki.com/page/The_Shroud

and
"NPC rewards: up to 16 level weapons & choice of any single Unique loot item upon every 20th completion."

From: http://ddowiki.com/page/Hound_of_Xoriat

[Sarisa]

"Reward based on class" only works on standard end reward lists, with purely random items. It does not work on (most) chain reward lists, Chrono rewards, Fens quest rewards, and 20th raid completion lists.

As for the 20th completion list, it was made so that there was a "light at the end of the tunnel". With a huge list of rings like ToD has, and the most wanted rings being either on the uncommon or rare list, you really don't have much of a chance at getting the ring you want. It's not uncommon to need 40 or 60 runs to get your desired ring.

It's also not uncommon to hear about the 40 run Madstones and 60 run Torcs.

Not having all possible raid equipment items (Tomes should still be rare additions, except for Shroud) just continues the grind and only gives people false hope. The current system CAN help, but often times it fails to deliver the "light at the end of the tunnel".

Just an aside, I got totally screwed on my Cleric's 20th Abbot list. The list contained a Breeze, Circle of Hatred, Purging the Pantheon, Shroud of the Abbot, Quiver of Alacrity, Wretched Twilight, Deific Diadem, and a +3 STR tome. No Noxious Embers, no Litany, no Staff of the Petitioner, not even a second Vile Blasphemy. Just a bunch of Pale Master stuff and stuff I have no need for. I took the STR tome, which gave me an uneven STR. All it does is let me pull the STR levers in VoN5 without the need to drink a Yugo pot. I have no desire to grind through another 20 Abbots, a raid I simply hate, just for the CHANCE at getting something I could use.

[dfgdsdfv]

Are you sure?

"NPC rewards: up to 16 level weapons & choice of any single Unique loot item upon every 20th completion."

From: http://ddowiki.com/page/Hound_of_Xoriat

This is surely not true, no Levik's bracers on my 20th, another couple named missing.
You have a chance to get +3 tomes, and named items. The more named items in the raid loot table, the less chance you get what you need -> and there comes big issue with ToD (Shavarath pack).

[Argila]

Whaaaaaaaat?

You do 20 completions and do NOT receive the whole unique item reward list? What pack is TOD? Not gonna buy that

And i really hope only that pack use this awful system, i'd have sent a bug report when it happened to me the first time!

You misunderstood (or i didn't explain myself properly), i received a list of unique items but, in that list, there wasn't the ring i was looking for.
On the list there was the ring for my prestige class (Encrusted) but already had that one and the others offered were completely useless for a Barbarian.

[Phemt81]

This is surely not true, no Levik's bracers on my 20th, another couple named missing.
You have a chance to get +3 tomes, and named items. The more named items in the raid loot table, the less chance you get what you need -> and there comes big issue with ToD (Shavarath pack).

Then ddowiki is not 100% reliable, too bad.

You misunderstood (or i didn't explain myself properly), i received a list of unique items but, in that list, there wasn't the ring i was looking for.
On the list there was the ring for my prestige class (Encrusted) but already had that one and the others offered were completely useless for a Barbarian.

That's exactly what i got from the first post man

I am just saying that sucks, cause i m not running a raid 20th times if i can't chose from all the possible, existing unique item reward (composed by chest loot too like in HoX) of that raid. And reading the wiki i got that all raids offer that kind of list each 20th completions. Aside Shroud, but that offers the cleansing and all the stats tomes(always as long as wiki is reliable...).

My point is: if i've run the raid 20 times it means i've quite mastered it (or i should) and i deserve to choose whichever item i need/want cause i was not lucky enough to get while actually running it.

[Asketes]

+1 and completely agree.

Done my 20th yesterday. The ring that i wanted? Nope, not it the list.

I bet there weren't any tomes either.


I ended up taking the shintao ring on my barb since the two rings I really were looking for, wasn't there.


ugh

[Gkar]

Are you sure?

"Special raid reward for 20th completion is a choice from following;

* Bound stat tomes (1 for each stat appear in the list, can be +2 or +3)
* Essence of Cleansing which can remove Taint of Shavarath from your Green Steel Accessories"

From: http://ddowiki.com/page/The_Shroud

and
"NPC rewards: up to 16 level weapons & choice of any single Unique loot item upon every 20th completion."

From: http://ddowiki.com/page/Hound_of_Xoriat

The Hound entry is wrong, unless they have changed it in the last few updates. It has been a year or more since I've bothered to get 20 hounds on anyone.

The Shroud is an exception to the rule because there are no Shroud "raid loot" items so they came up with something else instead. (TS of course is the other exception since it doesn't behave like any other raid except having 12 people)

[Xynot2]

Are you sure?

[I]"Special raid reward for 20th completion is a choice from following;

* Bound stat tomes (1 for each stat appear in the list, can be +2 or +3)

This is BS- just made my 20th with my barbarian and while there were three +3 tomes, they were int, wis and charisma. I think a str or con should have been in there. The loot tables are broken and they should put some one on fixing it.

[Phemt81]

This is BS- just made my 20th with my barbarian and while there were three +3 tomes, they were int, wis and charisma. I think a str or con should have been in there. The loot tables are broken and they should put some one on fixing it.

Try an higher difficulty setting next time, it worked for me.

Aside that i can't avoid to:

[Ungood]

Currently list of end rewards for a 20th completion raid randomly choose the items between the whole list available. For raids that have lot of unique items like Tower of Despair a character can end with only very bad choices.
i.e a melee has the choice between savants, healers, thief acrobat rings, etc

To make it a real reward, considering the time and difficulty it takes to complete these quests the logic should be changed so that the prestige/class of the character are included by default in the list and the random factor applies only to the rest (7 out of 10 rings for ToD)

Do you have your UI set to give rewards based on class?

I think that should be the significant factor.

If you tell your UI to ignore your class, it should. If you tell it to pay attention to your class, it should, even on raid end rewards.

Oh and: