two RAD IIs a waste?

[bendover]

I'm not rogue expert so please fill me in.


I know it allows you to attack slightly faster after haste boost goes off but I fail to see how that is better then IC. I understand that Min IIs are keen. Wouldn't IC still help with damage on everything else? What happens when you run out of haste boosts?

I do not undestand how that is better?

Edit: What is your vaccum II? Assuming it has Shocking Burst on it (or possibly evil burst) either way the bust would benefit from the 19-20x3 crit gained from IC.

Dancing Ball + Mind Fog + Vacuums II's in epic = Game over

[LeLoric]

The only remaining content my rogue does are EDA, Echrono, and every now and then your epic desert quest. When I need to tank the bosses in EDA, or the boss in Echrono I perfer not to ever miss...

So again this whole thread boils down to the content of each individual, and I'm done having to defend what I do to the likes of you. I post the information as I see in the eyes of the content I do which works best for me. You can myddo my rogue and see I really don't need to defend which feat and why because it works for what I do.

If suboptimal works for you great.

I run often the same content as you and your choices are just that suboptimal.

[bendover]

If suboptimal works for you great.

I run often the same content as you and your choices are just that suboptimal.

If you did happen to do so you would know that your statement is false.

[SableShadow]

Ah, thanks for the clarification.... Is that a good method today? 1 kill per 40 swings? Seems like epic trash takes less than 40 swings to kill nowadays.

*shrug* Dunno.

I can recall wanting to make vacs at one point, but shied away because there used to be a max HD on them.

This explains why he thinks Rad II weapons are worthless..

Exactly. I still don't agree with the overall conclusion, but ... a friend of mine dropped me a tell the other day. He's run with Intervention, and he's the real deal, not just another forum poser, so ... whatever works.

[bendover]

*shrug* Dunno.

I can recall wanting to make vacs at one point, but shied away because there used to be a max HD on them.

I understand that alot of people had the same worries, but they don't have a HD limit on them you can vacuum anything up to an orange named.

[LeLoric]

If you did happen to do so you would know that your statement is false.

It is absolutely true.

Relying on rare procs lit vac II that also havae a save is really suboptimal.

Epic trash has low enough hit points anymore that dps is the most optimal way to bring them down. And yourweapon choices for dps are very suboptimal.

That's fine I've made suboptimal choices before for one reason for another, but to come here spouting that your way is superior when it is not is misleading.

Mathematically your way is clearly suboptimal.

[bendover]

It is absolutely true.

Relying on rare procs lit vac II that also havae a save is really suboptimal.

Epic trash has low enough hit points anymore that dps is the most optimal way to bring them down. And yourweapon choices for dps are very suboptimal.

That's fine I've made suboptimal choices before for one reason for another, but to come here spouting that your way is superior when it is not is misleading.

Mathematically your way is clearly suboptimal.

The proc rate is not "rare" as you put it. It borders around that of a lightning II. In EDA we use Dancing Ball + Mind fog. Add in the fact that an Assassin III rogue can negative level on sneak attacks with the mind fog for extra the mobs will absolutely not save and will generally be faster

[fluffybunnywilson]

I understand that alot of people had the same worries, but they don't have a HD limit on them you can vacuum anything up to an orange named.

Just curious, can you still Hoover up orange names after 9.1?

[Rydin_Dirtay]

Correct me if I'm wrong . . . but rogues aren't proficient in Scimitars are they?

No, but I have run toons that used MT scrolls. I guess in the OP's case a Rad2 Khop might be the easiest route then. 18-20 isn't bad.

[bendover]

Just curious, can you still Hoover up orange names after 9.1?

It may not post update 9, my rogue was TR'ed around that time so that's something we'd have to see if it still worked. It does get around deathblock though.

[LeLoric]

The proc rate is not "rare" as you put it. It borders around that of a lightning II. In EDA we use Dancing Ball + Mind fog. Add in the fact that an Assassin III rogue can negative level on sneak attacks with the mind fog for extra the mobs will absolutely not save and will generally be faster

Lit II proc is pretty rare. I can swing two of them and kill epic mobs over 75% of the time without a proc. That's pretty rare for me.

You said you run Echrono and EDA. Those are filled with devils with dr good that you cant bypass, tieflings with about 70-80 lightning resist and everything is evil. Your dmg flags on your weapon are all pretty useless in there.

Wearing assasin set for negative levels means you aren't using ravager set for even more dps.

All this leads to the fact that you aren't doing very good dps compared to someone geared to do dps. You are down well over 20 damage a swing over more optimal weapon selections.

[Viisari]

The only remaining content my rogue does are EDA, Echrono, and every now and then your epic desert quest. When I need to tank the bosses in EDA, or the boss in Echrono I perfer not to ever miss...

So let me get this straight... You tank bosses on your rogue? Do you only run with gimp melee dps on your party and have no undestanding of game mechanics? Rogues lose a lot of damage when they have aggro, so tanking as a rogue is autofail.

[Junts]

The proc rate is not "rare" as you put it. It borders around that of a lightning II. In EDA we use Dancing Ball + Mind fog. Add in the fact that an Assassin III rogue can negative level on sneak attacks with the mind fog for extra the mobs will absolutely not save and will generally be faster

A lit2 has a proc rate of 2%. If you're using something similar, you autokill the mob every 50 swings. In return, you do terrible dps and don't even bypass dr. If you used real weapons on good dps toons, you would kill these mobs in a lot less than 50 swings - even without lightning 2 procs. My monk can kill a devil assault mob in about 6 seconds solo.

I agree vacuum is useful for certain mobs - particularly orange-named, very high-hp, crit-immune targets. However, its a really rare situation. Most of the time, its vastly inferior to doing good damage with good characters.

[Thrudh]

So let me get this straight... You tank bosses on your rogue? Do you only run with gimp melee dps on your party and have no undestanding of game mechanics? Rogues lose a lot of damage when they have aggro, so tanking as a rogue is autofail.

I have to admit this is a good point... Why are you tanking? How are you, without sneak attack, keeping aggro?

[Thrudh]

a friend of mine dropped me a tell the other day. He's run with Intervention, and he's the real deal, not just another forum poser, so ... whatever works.

He may be the real deal, but he's doing SOME posing here... He's certainly not doing more DPS than 99.5% of all rogues out there with just Min IIs and vacuum weapons...

He may be doing solid DPS against raid bosses in the only 3-4 quests he actually runs, but that's a far cry from "I do more DPS than 99.5% of the rogues on the server"

[Chai]

OutDPSing 99.5% of all rogues means having more aggro than one would know what to do with. This means outDPSing everyone in melee in 0% fort situations. The minute the mob turns and SA damage is lost, the DPS advantage would be lost as well, and those other rogues with RAD2 just won.

Real deal or not, RAD2 is a great solution in situations where an aggro babysitter isnt present to take the heat to make the rogues DPS shine. No need to lean on it like its a crutch - its there when needed.

I also didnt see khopesh on that feat list. I know that it doesnt make as significant of an increase as it would for a non SA class, but I bet more than .5% of rogues on the server use them.

[khaldan]

I also didnt see khopesh on that feat list. I know that it doesnt make as significant of an increase as it would for a non SA class, but I bet more than .5% of rogues on the server use them.

TR into a fighter 3 times, that fixes everything!

[SableShadow]

He may be the real deal, but he's doing SOME posing here.

Didn't say I agree with him; the opposite in fact ... nor am I willing to defend his posting style ... I got at least one post moderated due to my response to said style.

He may be doing solid DPS against raid bosses in the only 3-4 quests he actually runs, but that's a far cry from "I do more DPS than 99.5% of the rogues on the server"

Well, on trash he's not DPSing at all.

I used to say "vorp is dps" or "wop is dps" only because it annoyed Nick ... and assassinate now works in the current epics.

[hockeyrama]

ok, for many reasons stated he is not in max dps mode with the gear he has setup. All I can think is that he has at least one (except for when he tanks) excellent hate tank that he runs with so it really does not matter what he does as it will seem awesome in comparison.

Anyway, it is irrelevant to the OP.

Is 2 rad2's a waste?
Yes.

There problem solved.

Explanation: you can blind stuff fairly fast with just one and your second wepon can be a higher dps or special (whatever you need based on enemy) wepon. The rad2 will give you a huge boost when you do accidently get aggro and it will help others get sa damage as well. So it is nice but having two is just focusing on it a bit too much. If you find that one is not enough then try to get more haste boosts to get more swings in per second and that will proc it more.

[Emag]

A lit2 has a proc rate of 2%. If you're using something similar, you autokill the mob every 50 swings. In return, you do terrible dps and don't even bypass dr. If you used real weapons on good dps toons, you would kill these mobs in a lot less than 50 swings - even without lightning 2 procs. My monk can kill a devil assault mob in about 6 seconds solo.

I agree vacuum is useful for certain mobs - particularly orange-named, very high-hp, crit-immune targets. However, its a really rare situation. Most of the time, its vastly inferior to doing good damage with good characters.

you've seen his build in action therefore "knowing" he has terrible dps..this has logic. are you forgetting the 21d6 backstab or does that disappear?