two RAD IIs a waste?

[Tobril]

:/ somebody hit the diplomacy button

Sorry about that…let me try again…


Rabble Rabble my way or the highway cause you’re all a bunch of dumb noobs!!!!

RAWR.

[LeLoric]

Not to join the Intervention fan club, but chasing blind monsters in epics is a real drag
and raid bosses all remembered to put on their anti-blindness goggles.

Very few mobs still move when blinded and held. Chasing them is really not an issue anymore and hasn't been for quite some time.

No one is suggesting to use rad II's on raid bosses.

[Thaxlsillyia]

Sorry about that…let me try again…


Rabble Rabble my way or the highway cause you’re all a bunch of dumb noobs!!!!

RAWR.

thats more like it... to continue...

rabble rabble squeak... noobsauce... yoink!

[Thrudh]

There is no need to ever have a radiance II... I run with people who know how to build toons and with a little subtle backstab surrounded by other fellow well built melees no you're losing DPS with radiance II's. I have agro when I need to have agro a.k.a a crappy pug.

I don't build my toon because the deficiences of others, I build it to the best of it's potential and any mineral II and/or lightning II are going to out dps radiance II all day long.

What you're saying is... without your group of guildies, your DPS drops.

Well, my rogue rocks even when not being carried by my guildies. He rocks in ALL situations, not just perfect ones... My guy can even solo... Your guy can't. That makes my rogue superior to your rogue, IMO.

[Tobril]

Very few mobs still move when blinded and held. Chasing them is really not an issue anymore and hasn't been for quite some time.

O’rly?

Good to know, guess I never noticed any changes from way back
when considering my recent epic runs have been my monk, a guild
wiz, and a channel cleric plus 3 random fail-pugs.

The pirate pile-ons don’t have any GS (let alone radiance) so I haven’t
ran into the old blindness shuffle lately.

[Tobril]

What you're saying is... without your group of guildies, your DPS drops.

Well, my rogue rocks even when not being carried by my guildies. He rocks in ALL situations, not just perfect ones... My guy can even solo... Your guy can't. That makes my rogue superior to your rogue, IMO.

I would be hesitant to tell a player who has two-manned elite shroud that “he can’t solo”.

Just sayin.

[Thrudh]

I can also underman epics or run in non traditional groups and still do my job. A FvS a caster and a bard want to roll through eVon 1 w/ my rogue? NP. I can be as heavy on trash DPS as I want, sans issues.

Exactly... Bendover cannot run epics solo or without a CC caster, without seeing his DPS drop significantly. All the way from the 99.5% to the 25% range... But as long he runs only in-guild, with "perfect" groups, his character is the best!

[Thrudh]

I would be hesitant to tell a player who has two-manned elite shroud that “he can’t solo”.

Just sayin.

He can't solo as effectively as a rogue with Radiance II.... Now that vorpals aren't as effective, my rogue with Radiance II will out DPS him on trash on a 2-man elite Shroud run, and do just as much damage on the lieutenants and bosses.

So yeah, any rogue with the same build and gear as him will do an elite 2-man Shroud faster using Radiance II on trash than he can without.

He's wrong to not use Rad II in certain situations. And two-man Shroud is definitely one of those situations. He is lowering his DPS.

[Tobril]

He can't solo as effectively as a rogue with Radiance II.... Now that vorpals aren't as effective, my rogue with Radiance II will out DPS him on trash on a 2-man elite Shroud run, and do just as much damage on the lieutenants and bosses.

So yeah, any rogue with the same build and gear as him will do an elite 2-man Shroud faster using Radiance II on trash than he can without.

He's wrong to not use Rad II in certain situations. And two-man Shroud is definitely one of those situations. He is lowering his DPS.

Unless he finds himself in situations where radiance isn't useful.

Your content <> someone else's content.


BTW…What approach did you take on your two-man elite shroud?

[Thrudh]

Unless he finds himself in situations where radiance isn't useful.

Your content <> someone else's content.

Explain to me how the Shroud elite for him is different from the Shroud elite for me... Against trash in Shroud elite with only two players, he would do more DPS with a Radiance II against trash than without one.

There is no argument about that. His same build, same gear. Radiance II, more DPS, trash die faster.

No ifs, ands, or buts. In the exact situation you brought up (two-man Shroud), Radiance II would give more DPS, and a faster completion.

Your content <> someone else's content.

Now, if you're saying that he normally runs content different than my content, I'll agree with you.. Sounds like he runs in guild groups, with good players, each one specialized in a specific role... I will agree with you and him that Rad II is not needed there...

But he didn't say that in his first post... He said Rad II is a waste, with no qualifiers. It is not a waste for people playing content and in groups different from his content and his groups.

His post was poor and inaccurate as a generalization.

[Thaxlsillyia]

Unless he finds himself in situations where radiance isn't useful.

Your content <> someone else's content.


BTW…What approach did you take on your two-man elite shroud?

the point many rogues, as opposed to ppl with rogue icons playing like a barbarian, make is that a rad2 is situationally the most useful weapon in your bag, and the situation covers a wide spectrum where the mobs only DR is good and is not red named or higher. What bendover has going (in terms of gear/group) is not what is available to 99.999% of rogues. If he has absolutely no trouble getting in SA when fully raged and haste boosted then yay to him and his group tank. But making a blanket statement like rad2 is a waste of resources is like saying "my static group is made of one WF barbarian and + WF caster. so healing amp/healers friend on any toaster barbarian is over rated and gimps your character".

/diplomacy

[Thrudh]

I think the real argument here is that certain people run different content on a regular basis
and ignore the fact that for some people the “end-game” isn’t epics. Ditto this for anyone who
states that others should use “X” because it is better/worse without taking into account
the other persons preferred content.


So long as what you use is the best for your content and situation everything is golden.

By the way, I agree with this 100%. Good post.

[Cashiry]

Exactly... Bendover cannot run epics solo or without a CC caster, without seeing his DPS drop significantly. All the way from the 99.5% to the 25% range... But as long he runs only in-guild, with "perfect" groups, his character is the best!

This is a false statement. He solos quite alot. His dps is quite significant. He doesn't always stay in guild runs and manages to do things that most rogues can not do.

[Tobril]

Explain to me how the Shroud elite for him is different from the Shroud elite for me... Against trash in Shroud elite with only two players, he would do more DPS with a Radiance II against trash than without one.

There is no argument about that. His same build, same gear. Radiance II, more DPS, trash die faster.

No ifs, ands, or buts. In the exact situation you brought up (two-man Shroud), Radiance II would give more DPS, and a faster completion.

His run was with two battle-divines and they won.

Now, if you're saying that he normally runs content different than my content, I'll agree with you.. Sounds like he runs in guild groups, with good players, each one specialized in a specific role... I will agree with you and him that Rad II is not needed there...

But he didn't say that in his first post... He said Rad II is a waste, with no qualifiers. It is not a waste for people playing content and in groups different from his content and his groups.

His post was poor and inaccurate as a generalization.

As was your generalization, thus my response.

[Tobril]

/diplomacy

Oh no you didn't!!!

We've already established diplo is for suckers...

[Thrudh]

His run was with two battle-divines and they won.

I had pretty much guessed that the 2-man run wasn't with his rogue, but I didn't want to ask...

Anyway, now that you clarified that...

WHAT THE HECK does that Shroud completion have to do with this rogue discussion? He obviously doesn't solo with his rogue, or he'd have a Rad II.

[Tobril]

He obviously doesn't solo with his rogue, or he'd have a Rad II.

This is a false statement. He solos quite alot. His dps is quite significant. He doesn't always stay in guild runs and manages to do things that most rogues can not do.

I'll let Inter's guild member's response speak here.

[Thrudh]

This is a false statement. He solos quite alot. His dps is quite significant. He doesn't always stay in guild runs and manages to do things that most rogues can not do.

If he solos as a rogue without a Rad II, he never gets sneak attack (change that to rarely if he uses bluff).

His DPS is nowhere near the top 99.5% of all rogues when he solos if he's not using Radiance II... There is no argument about this...

Any pure rogue with otherwise **** equipment and Radiance II will out DPS him on trash when soloing, because they are getting sneak attacks in 80% of the time.

[LolWutRoflstomped]

I can also underman epics or run in non traditional groups and still do my job. A FvS a caster and a bard want to roll through eVon 1 w/ my rogue? NP. I can be as heavy on trash DPS as I want, sans issues.

Lol? I'd hope with pocket heals, buffs, CCs, and instakills you could "manage to be effective sans issues"... 4 Man optimal group conidered underman LAWL.

[toughguyjoe]

His run was with two battle-divines and they won.

See here's the thing. Two battle-divines(Guessing FvS...) are pretty much the poster children for two manning elite anything.

Yes, Inters rogue is awesome.

Yes, Inter can solo and is a very knowledgeable and good DDO player.

Should Inter come here and tell people without so much skill, time spent playing, and good groups to run with to not build a weapon that will benefit them greatly?

The answer to that is easy. No. Inter should not have made a blanket statement: "Rad II is a waste, do not craft it"

Simply for this reason. Just because it is a waste for him, doesn't mean it is a waste for everyone.