two RAD IIs a waste?

[Rameses]

Personally yes I believe that using two Rad2 weapons is a waste.
I'd like to believe that the use of one high crit chance weapon as your Rad2 weapon in your main hand with a Lit2 or similar crafted weapon in your off hand is a better combination. And should not require the addition of a Rad2.

I am, Rameses!

[SableShadow]

I know this goes against the grain here, but this is what works for me after trying both many times.

Nah, I'll wager everyone in this thread agrees and does exactly that. It's more of a "***?!?" reaction to the blanket statement "Rad II is a waste on a rogue, don't build it."

Personally yes I believe that using two Rad2 weapons is a waste.
I'd like to believe that the use of one high crit chance weapon as your Rad2 weapon in your main hand with a Lit2 or similar crafted weapon in your off hand is a better combination. And should not require the addition of a Rad2.

I am, Rameses!

I didn't build a second one (technically a fourth...ss to rapier upgrade and then my "experimental" one before I went to the more traditional holy/fire/fire version) until I had dual Lit IIs/Min IIs covered. I find a pair very useful, but then I solo, pug, and "scout" a fair amount.

[grodon9999]

I love how everyone pretends to know what they're talking about.
I say pretend because if you actually knew what you were talking about then you'd know that Min2s are not optimal vs bosses. They're convenient because they bypass almost every type of DR in the game while still doing decent damage.
But they are not optimal by any stretch.

By bosses he means devil bosses (I hope . . .) which Mineral II is best unless you only run your raids on Normal.

[Lithic]

By bosses he means devil bosses (I hope . . .) which Mineral II is best unless you only run your raids on Normal.

Min2 for bosses are a thing of the past thanks to easily crafted +4 holy silver weapons of evil outsider bane (or cold iron versions). After this patch, there will be +5 holy silver weapons of greater lawfull/chaotic outsider bane as well, though with a little more effort.

I find a pair very useful, but then I solo, pug, and "scout" a fair amount.

By "scout" you mean "ZERG!"?

By "Solo" you mean "ZERG!!!! while the rest of the party is buffing"?

By "pug" you mean "ZERG!!!! while the rest of the party is dead in lava somewhere"?

heh.

[Rodasch]

Umm wow... No Mineral II offers you the Improved Crit feat.... So if you're going Mineral II you don't need the feat meaning you can pick up something else to improve DPS.

If you don't go Mineral II then obviously improved crit is the way to go. Way to show you're lack of knowledge.

Wait, what?

Are you saying that wielding one MinII weapon gives you improved critical feat on both weapons?

[karl_k0ch]

Wait, what?

Are you saying that wielding one MinII weapon gives you improved critical feat on both weapons?

This would surprise me. Iirc, MinII has the keen property, i.e. only granting an increased Crit Range for that very weapon.

[grodon9999]

Min2 for bosses are a thing of the past thanks to easily crafted +4 holy silver weapons of evil outsider bane (or cold iron versions). After this patch, there will be +5 holy silver weapons of greater lawfull/chaotic outsider bane as well, though with a little more effort.

Most players can't be bothered with this crafting BS, and I already have Min IIs

[fluffybunnywilson]

Dwarven axes are "slightly" behind khopeshes?

Tokyo is "slightly" far away from Alpha Centauri I guess.

But everyone know that they're going to launch first, so Provost Zakharov will still have to hitch a ride on Tokyo's space bus.

Also, I think that everyone missed the most important post that Bendover made.

There is no need to ever have a radiance II... I run with people who know how to build toons and with a little subtle backstab surrounded by other fellow well built melees no you're losing DPS with radiance II's. I have agro when I need to have agro a.k.a a crappy pug.

I don't build my toon because the deficiences of others, I build it to the best of it's potential and any mineral II and/or lightning II are going to out dps radiance II all day long.

He runs with a group of people who don't actually need him in the quest, so it doesn't matter what weapon he weilds. He doesn't build his toon because of the "deficiences" of others. He builds it to take advantage of the fact that he doesn't need to worry about aggro since he can rely on the rest of the party to take care of his needs and play aggro nanny for him.

Which is pretty much like saying that your WF Barbarian doesn't need to take Healer's Friend I or any healing amp items because he doesn't build his toon to make up for the deficiences of PUG healers.

[Rameses]

But everyone know that they're going to launch first, so Provost Zakharov will still have to hitch a ride on Tokyo's space bus.

Also, I think that everyone missed the most important post that Bendover made.


He runs with a group of people who don't actually need him in the quest, so it doesn't matter what weapon he weilds. He doesn't build his toon because of the "deficiences" of others. He builds it to take advantage of the fact that he doesn't need to worry about aggro since he can rely on the rest of the party to take care of his needs and play aggro nanny for him.

Which is pretty much like saying that your WF Barbarian doesn't need to take Healer's Friend I or any healing amp items because he doesn't build his toon to make up for the deficiences of PUG healers.

this ^^ is another reason why Diplomacy is a great skill to have. A Rad2 weapon can be a crutch. It really can be. But it's still a tool that provides a necessary effect that anyone can profit from: whether that be the sneak attack advantage or the effects from being attacked by a blinded mob.

I am, Rameses!

[SableShadow]

He runs with a group of people who don't actually need him in the quest, so it doesn't matter what weapon he weilds. He doesn't build his toon because of the "deficiences" of others. He builds it to take advantage of the fact that he doesn't need to worry about aggro since he can rely on the rest of the party to take care of his needs and play aggro nanny for him.

Which is pretty much like saying that your WF Barbarian doesn't need to take Healer's Friend I or any healing amp items because he doesn't build his toon to make up for the deficiences of PUG healers.

Well ... if someone's got a good raiding guild and they build to cover each other, hey, more power to them. A majority don't really have that, tho...so advice that works in that specific scenario may not be the best in general.

this ^^ is another reason why Diplomacy is a great skill to have. A Rad2 weapon can be a crutch. It really can be. But it's still a tool that provides a necessary effect that anyone can profit from: whether that be the sneak attack advantage or the effects from being attacked by a blinded mob.

I am, Rameses!

Also, this.

[qwert_yuiop]

Pull them out when it's time to pull them out. I have a full range of rads, mins, and lits....if people see me pull fire into my hands, it's because there's not enough dps to hold agro. I can't be alone in this...can I? o.O

You are not alone

I was using those as an example it's going to be superior in any aspect you also fail to realize that a rogue is feat starved and the keen from a mineral II does improve dps even more by allowing you to select other dps increasing feats you wouldn't normally take such as quickdraw.

nice one. but apr 1 went by 45 odd days ago.

1. "do you make a rad2 for a rogue?" The answer from most of use gimps will be yes. It is the single most empowering weapon I have some across that a rogue can have.

2. "do you make 2 rad 2s?" I wont as I am happy with the blinding rate.

3. "is the rad2 to be used in all situations?" no. but i do find it superior to min2s in many situations.

4. "will a capped barbarian with dual min2s always hold aggro from me?" not in my experience. esp when you turn on that little haste boost

He runs with a group of people who don't actually need him in the quest, so it doesn't matter what weapon he weilds. He doesn't build his toon because of the "deficiences" of others. He builds it to take advantage of the fact that he doesn't need to worry about aggro since he can rely on the rest of the party to take care of his needs and play aggro nanny for him.

Which is pretty much like saying that your WF Barbarian doesn't need to take Healer's Friend I or any healing amp items because he doesn't build his toon to make up for the deficiences of PUG healers.

also, do i dare ask if said rogue can do traps?

I wonder what the sarlona forum will look like if a 0 healing amp WF barbarian goes into a frenzy after joining one of the "elite end game guild raid" to fill the last pug spot.

[Calebro]

Most players can't be bothered with this crafting BS, and I already have Min IIs

So what you're saying is that they're convenient, just like I said a few times?
You said they were the best, which is just flat out wrong.

[Ookami007]

The first radiance II is a waste let alone the second... /sigh with the people in love with radiance...

(Key Elmer Fudd voice) Be very very quiet... I'm hunting trolls.... huhuhuhuh....

[Ookami007]

Is having two RAD IIs a waste? or do people make the second kopesh as a boss beater?

I found that I already have 2 Metalline Khopeshes of pure good already and I was thinking of just using those as boss beaters. Or should I only make one RAD II and then either a MIN II/LIT II?

Of my capped rogues...

On my primary rogue (human TR rogue), I use dual Rad II khopeh's against anything that can be blinded. I switch out to Min 2's on anything that can't be blinded. He has a Lit II for off-hand, but it's usually in the bank.

On my drow rogue, I use Rad II (primary) and Lit II (secondary) rapiers. For boss beaters, she switches out to MoPG's.

On my halfling rogue, I use Rad II (primary) and Lit II (secondary) khopesh's. For boss beaters, he switches out to MoPG's as well.

I've found that usually on trash mobs, long before the Lit's have gone off, I've rolled a 20 and vorpal'ed them. And dead mobs tell no tales... of Lit 2 strikes...

[Jaid314]

I'm happy to be corrected but my understanding is that since the change to TWF a few updates ago both hands now use the same dice roll, so if you are dual wielding rapiers, if one crits, both crit (more or less - there are a few caveats to that statement).

If the above is true, and since the blindness effect has no saving throw, a second radiance rapier would be a waste and you would be better off crafting a different offhand weapon.

Whatever the case, I would highly commend crafting the first rad II rapier as your first priority. It's effect on rogue dps is massive.

not that i've noticed. what gets shared is the physics check.

[Chai]

The common perception on the forums is that radiance II on a rogue is awesome... and whatever I'll let you all continue to believe in your cookie cutter gear and I'll continue to know where I stand. You enjoy your radiance II and I'll enjoy being more beneficial...

A rogue loses more DPS when not having SA than they do when having SA but using a RAD2 weapon in one hand.

Ill stick to the best weapons in my pack until the group Im running with isnt trying to keep aggro babysitter style just to see me shine in the DPS dpt. Then I swap in a RAD2 and get the job done, not needing anyone elses assistance. For every blinded melee mob its like everyone in the group has displacement - 50% miss chance. Full on SA - aggro or not. People can argue over a few points here or there on different weapons, ill take my ~100 points per hit on SA, even when the mob is aggro or not on me.

I have the option to use it when needed. If not needed, Im just as beneficial as you say, using the best DPS weapons in my pack for the situation. Nothing cookie cutter about that.

I can also underman epics or run in non traditional groups and still do my job. A FvS a caster and a bard want to roll through eVon 1 w/ my rogue? NP. I can be as heavy on trash DPS as I want, sans issues.

[Tobril]

LOUD NOISES!!!!


Not to join the Intervention fan club, but chasing blind monsters in epics is a real drag
and raid bosses all remembered to put on their anti-blindness goggles.


The TR scene, however, is way different. Although I’m more of a bodyfeeder+vampirism
person, I can see how radiance would be invaluable while leveling a thief.


I think the real argument here is that certain people run different content on a regular basis
and ignore the fact that for some people the “end-game” isn’t epics. Ditto this for anyone who
states that others should use “X” because it is better/worse without taking into account
the other persons preferred content.


So long as what you use is the best for your content and situation everything is golden.

[LeLoric]

I use radiance often at endgame with epics. I use it not to get sneak attacks as I rarely have aggro but for other purposes.

1. Blinded mobs do a lot less damage. Not only does it cause a 50% miss chance but blinded mobs dont readjust to your new position as fast. Blind a mob then slide around to his backside and you won't get hit at all.

2. Blinded mobs have drastically lower ac. Many epic mobs are not autohit. Even when held some have ridiculous ac. Being able to keep power attack on at all times to hit is huge. Lots of mobs are not held as much as casters are now casting it less and when they do cast it it is not lasting as long due to higher saves and will often break out of it before dying.

3. It's exceptional dps. When mobs are not resistant to fire the rad II rapier is very close to a lit II rapier. The rad II dps is also more consistant not relying on a large proc hit to get the bigger boost to dps. This means that on the average mob it takes fewer swings to kill it. Sure with lit II 1 in 8 mobs will die faster but the other 7 die slower. Couple that with the ac reduction from blind often allowing you to hit on more swings and the rad II is almost always more dps when mobs are not fire resistant.


The auto sneaks also comes into play often but is rarely the reason I use the rad II.

As to the op Dual rads is very nice but can also be very expensive. If your khopesh specced yes make two. If you are piercing specced put a t3 smallblade in your offhand it's much more dps and has no hit penalty if you dont have otwf.

[Yaga_Nub]

If I could chop up my guild mate, take her arm, sew it on Star, and use a 3rd Rad2 rapier, I would. More Rad2s are never a waste.

If you are using khopeshes for your rad2s, then you should get a second rad2 even more as your blindness rate will already be lower than normal.

But where would you put it?

[Thaxlsillyia]

LOUD NOISES!!!!


Not to join the Intervention fan club, but chasing blind monsters in epics is a real drag
and raid bosses all remembered to put on their anti-blindness goggles.


The TR scene, however, is way different. Although I’m more of a bodyfeeder+vampirism
person, I can see how radiance would be invaluable while leveling a thief.


I think the real argument here is that certain people run different content on a regular basis
and ignore the fact that for some people the “end-game” isn’t epics. Ditto this for anyone who
states that others should use “X” because it is better/worse without taking into account
the other persons preferred content.


So long as what you use is the best for your content and situation everything is golden.

:/ somebody hit the diplomacy button