two RAD IIs a waste?

[bendover]

OutDPSing 99.5% of all rogues means having more aggro than one would know what to do with. This means outDPSing everyone in melee in 0% fort situations. The minute the mob turns and SA damage is lost, the DPS advantage would be lost as well, and those other rogues with RAD2 just won.

Real deal or not, RAD2 is a great solution in situations where an aggro babysitter isnt present to take the heat to make the rogues DPS shine. No need to lean on it like its a crutch - its there when needed.

I also didnt see khopesh on that feat list. I know that it doesnt make as significant of an increase as it would for a non SA class, but I bet more than .5% of rogues on the server use them.

Re-read my original post about the 99.5%. The other .5% that will out DPS me are going to be the well built Horc/Halfling/WF/Human TWF Khopesh pure rogues...

Don't you play on Sarlona anyways?

[Maxallu]

The Well Built Horc/halfling/wf/human Twf Khopesh Pure Rogues > 00.05%

[brzytki]

To the OP, i'm using a single Rad2 rapier and it does its job well. Two Rad2 rapiers would be overkill IMO but as khopeshes go i'd be tempted to craft two of them.

To bendover, throwing a blanket statement that radiance weapon is a waste doesn't make your opinion valid. You might be successful without it in very narrow content that you run now but it's very simple to me: a rogue is better off having a radiance weapon. It doesn't mean they should be using it on every single mob including raid bosses.

As Sable previously said, Sarlona must be very sad place for decent rogues if you place yours at the very top. I'd go as far to say that almost every human/halfling/horc/drow assassin will outdps you if they break dr, some even don't have to.

you've seen his build in action therefore "knowing" he has terrible dps..this has logic. are you forgetting the 21d6 backstab or does that disappear?

I might be wrong here (i've been only playing my rogues for 2 years) but every assassin gets 17d6 SA, not sure how u came up with 21d6. Those dice are obviously irrelevant as every pure assassin has them. BUT they become relevant and quite a big deal if a rogue pulls aggro. bendover said he "tanks" some bosses meaning he loses 17d6 and around 20 more (depending on gear and enhancements) plus maybe some more regular hits as he has aggro (i don't think that he hits everytime he has aggro).
From mmyddo and this discussion you can learn a lot about his build and his playstyle, that alone doesn't mean i know his build very well but gives me basic ideas of what he does and how, which leads me to a feeling that his not doing much dps.

[Junts]

you've seen his build in action therefore "knowing" he has terrible dps..this has logic. are you forgetting the 21d6 backstab or does that disappear?

No, it doesnt, but it isn't enough alone, and part if it is lost to the dr he isn't bypassing by using a piece of ****.

Lightning strike weapons aren't good because of a 600 damage lihgtning bolt every so often. They're good because they break dr, have ah oly flag, have an elemental tag that hits basically everything - and- incidently do 600 damage lightning bolts. The bolt is free - the weapon is amazing on most targets without the proc. A vacuum weapon is horrible on most targets unless it procs.

The poster in question would kill mobs faster with a lit2 and a rad2 in his hands, with few to no exceptions (like the orange named earth eles in small problem). In all the content he listed, that weapon set is simply faster and more effective universally, period. Maybe the fact that he's using dwarven axes on his rogue leads him to misunderstand how good this effect is. I can't really say. All I can say is that his posts are wildly misleading and wrong.

[Razcar]

The Well Built Horc/halfling/wf/human Twf Khopesh Pure Rogues > 00.05%

If you take all rogues on the servers into account - and not just high level/TRed characters - I'm afraid that initial number won't be far from the truth. Almost all rogues I see if pugging on a TR behave like hirelings on Inactive mode, except when they pop out of stealth to disarm the occasional trap.

[destiny4405]

The Well Built Horc/halfling/wf/human Twf Khopesh Pure Rogues > 00.05%

well, on sarlona at least, not really. maybe you could argue about the number, but it's not far from the truth at all.

[Valindria]

No, it doesnt, but it isn't enough alone, and part if it is lost to the dr he isn't bypassing by using a piece of ****.

Lightning strike weapons aren't good because of a 600 damage lihgtning bolt every so often. They're good because they break dr, have ah oly flag, have an elemental tag that hits basically everything - and- incidently do 600 damage lightning bolts. The bolt is free - the weapon is amazing on most targets without the proc. A vacuum weapon is horrible on most targets unless it procs.

The poster in question would kill mobs faster with a lit2 and a rad2 in his hands, with few to no exceptions (like the orange named earth eles in small problem). In all the content he listed, that weapon set is simply faster and more effective universally, period. Maybe the fact that he's using dwarven axes on his rogue leads him to misunderstand how good this effect is. I can't really say. All I can say is that his posts are wildly misleading and wrong.

Winner.

[bendover]

not doing much dps.

Good one...

[brzytki]

not doing much dps.

Good one...

If u want i can change that to "suboptimal", which will be more accurate.

[Emili]

ok, for many reasons stated he is not in max dps mode with the gear he has setup. All I can think is that he has at least one (except for when he tanks) excellent hate tank that he runs with so it really does not matter what he does as it will seem awesome in comparison.

Anyway, it is irrelevant to the OP.

Is 2 rad2's a waste?
Yes.

There problem solved.

Explanation: you can blind stuff fairly fast with just one and your second wepon can be a higher dps or special (whatever you need based on enemy) wepon. The rad2 will give you a huge boost when you do accidently get aggro and it will help others get sa damage as well. So it is nice but having two is just focusing on it a bit too much. If you find that one is not enough then try to get more haste boosts to get more swings in per second and that will proc it more.

This...

Your second weapon is always better as something yielding more dps than the 2nd Rad II. The payoff of a 2nd rad II is not enough to justify such.

[Emili]

Correct me if I'm wrong . . . but rogues aren't proficient in Scimitars are they?

No ... however if we considered a str rogue, madstoned and buffed up to the hilt some of them even swear by khopeshes wo the feat.

Now ask yourself this ... does the ranger in your sig have issues hitting? You only have your str buffs and at most +2 to-hit from FE, every rogue out there is typically on a flank or back of the mob and running with pretty much the same Str... essentially buffed up they're the same "to_hit" or within the ballpark of it.

When you establish a "to-hit" high enough then -4 to-hit becomes a drop in the bucket - even on a rogue. Let's examine this ... 3/4 BaB becomes full BaB madstoned and then add in all the buffing GH, rages, .... and you're typically flanking - or on the back ... toss on a bards songs and forget it.

Reasons being ... 99% the game is spec'd with lower AC mob and even in epics few str based characters are not going to undershoot the average AC. i.e. Epic Malicia last I noted she has 68 AC one of the highest in the game (very few mob are that high and chances are you're really close to that with full buff even on a 3/4 BaB).

I used to wonder why players used to scream about "AC" being broken on the player end - needing so much gear and so much effort ... for the mob it's ten fold, originally used to not be such way - i.e. PrE mod 3 black guard and fire giant champs. Players however screamed "I Can't Hit!" because they did not build for it, as a result the Devs toned down mob AC so much to make "to-hit" a stat where the "average" 3/4 melee can hit. Kensie and Barbs are not about the "high to hit" for actually hitting - most are overkill in that stat.

[Nahual]

the problem is that your wizards are CCing my blinded mobs!!

[destiny4405]

the problem is that your wizards are CCing my blinded mobs!!

This! Tho, i got pretty good at predicting where will they go :P

[Maxallu]

I have read through this whole thread and I have decided what to do with my limited resources.

I'm going to make 2x LIT IIs, I think. Mostly because they will be useful in future lives.

[Thrudh]

I have read through this whole thread and I have decided what to do with my limited resources.

I'm going to make 2x LIT IIs, I think. Mostly because they will be useful in future lives.

If you are TRing into a rogue, you really should make one Rad II rapier or scimitar (as long as you will be proficient and have Improved Crit: Pierce or Slash).

I can't believe you read all these responses, and somehow decided you didn't want a Rad II at all as a TRing rogue.

I can only assume you are TRing into other classes, and then yes, 2x Lit II is the better answer.

[Maxallu]

rogue is next and I would hate to make a couple rad II rapiers, use them and then just leave them in the bank. If i just go with LIT II, ill be all ready for ranger. IDK, maybe everything will be dead by the time i pull agro? Is this a terrible idea? I may be wrong but it would seem like 2x LIT II Kopesh have a wider usage than RAD II weapons.

[Thrudh]

rogue is next and I would hate to make a couple rad II rapiers, use them and then just leave them in the bank. If i just go with LIT II, ill be all ready for ranger. IDK, maybe everything will be dead by the time i pull agro? Is this a terrible idea? I may be wrong but it would seem like 2x LIT II Kopesh have a wider usage than RAD II weapons.

If you are going for completionist, and will be playing all the melee classes, then Lit II is the way to go.. Rad II is only particularly useful (but VERY useful) to rogues...

The difference between a rogue with one Rad II weapon, and without is like night and day... With a Rad II, you can have aggro and still use sneak attack.. Very difficult to solo as a rogue without a Rad II.. You have to really be careful to manage aggro without a Rad II (maybe that's a good thing - it will make you a better player)

How fast do you level? Are you going to be a rogue on your next life for 3 weeks or 3 months? Is your final life going to be rogue or something else?

I'd be tempted to go Rad II and Lit II if I was you, but if you're only going to do one rogue life, and plenty of other melee lives, then probably two Lit IIs is the way to go.

[ainmosni]

id like to point out that blinding an enemy doesnt just allow you personally to get in SA- it allows the rest of the party as well.

rogue is a common splash, many people have 1 or 2 levels in their build, not to mention everyone and their mother has farmed (or intend to farm) a pair of tharne's goggles, or have the event gloves. if a few people in your party have tharne's on and a mob goes blind, that's an additional 8 points of damage a swing per person. that's more dps than a lit2 weapon adds per swing. Are they the best dps weapon in the game? well, no. are they a waste? absolutely not.

[bendover]

And we have a winner

[Calebro]

And we have a winner

hahahaaahaaa
I think you missed his point completely.