Evasion for Fighters?

[Phidius]

...And I will continue to TR my rangers to 'NOT A RANGER' (even though they are my preference) until the community either wakes up (which will mean Rangers get a bit of love from the devs) or I leave the game.

I have news for you - the "community" has its fair share of idiots. I've been declined from groups before because of one misconception or the other, even though I can solo the dang quest and only applied out of a desire to be sociable.

Please don't request changes to classes based on the "community's" ignorance.

[eonfreon]

I'm o.k. with pallies and the others getting evasion training as an option so long as it takes multipule feats and/or enhancements to get it.

Just strikes me as odd that a fighter or any other physically orientated class can not train to deflect or evade incoming damage, only if you splash rogue x2, monk x2 or ranger x9.

If done as an enhancement or feat CHAIN, you would still need to give up other abilities within the class because of lack of feats or Action Points. Should you be required to give up a Capstone to get evasion?

Light armor is fine. My ranger's' AC is fine in light mith (either chain or breast plate) they loose a point or 2 of AC going to Mith full plate and Evasion.

The problem is not melee damage incoming it's meteor swarms and things like that.



With Dex for Two Weapon fighting they should be able to make the reflex saves.

Yes, you absolutely should have to give up a Capstone to get Evasion. And Fighters would have the advantage if it was Feat based because they have more Feats than they need.

So, I'm against your idea.

[count_spicoli]

O.K. no early support......

Well since I do not really run epics, I will not be staying at 20 long enough for the capstone to matter will just do the splash.

Just kinda sucks that they gut the ranger melee then do not give a viable option within fighter for a Light fighter, only heavy and tank.

uh whats a light fighter????

[count_spicoli]

and in my pugs i take first 5 and then cleric. and if everyone feels fine with no cleric then just first 6. Dont care about class.

[eonfreon]

uh whats a light fighter????

A Ranger .

[ExK444]

A Ranger .

Or it could mean a fighter that dumped con, has no toughness, has no false life loot, and no fort. In other words, one gimped toon.

[Aranel12]

The problem is I do not believe melee rangers are totally gutted, just enough to make them low on the list for PUGS. I have seen PUGS with 2 players and the only class they refuse to accept is ranger. For soloing they are great. My guild love both of mine and search me out on other alts (not in the guild) to invite me when they want to bring the DPS.

The problem is the wider player base seems to have 3 overriding beliefs:
The only rangers that exist are AA and are useless/most likely poorly played
There is no such thing as a Melee DPS Ranger
All rangers are squishy

So until these issues get fixed. They are effectively gutted in my eyes.

Hence TRing to 'NOT A RANGER'

And I will continue to TR my rangers to 'NOT A RANGER' (even though they are my preference) until the community either wakes up (which will mean Rangers get a bit of love from the devs) or I leave the game.

Really an AA is very useful in the right times. (epic DQ comes to mind)
Melee Dps Rangers can dps very well when fully geared.
and rangers can get high hp without even trying.

I just take it you fully don't understand what a ranger fully designed for. As for your evasion enchancement line that is just so not worth it. if you want evasion take your 2 lvls of rogue or monk and you get it instantly.

[eonfreon]

Or it could mean a fighter that dumped con, has no toughness, has no false life loot, and no fort. In other words, one gimped toon.

Actually, I was speaking thematically. Light Infantry are generally more maneuverable troops. There have been battles in history where the Light Infantry troops on one side were in a superior fighting position due to terrain conditions then Heavy Infantry.

Light Fighters also tend to be more about guerilla warfare and harrying tactics, using their superior speed to outmaneuver enemies.

In general, it could be a good likeness to the Ranger thematically. Even their "spells" could be akin to Fighters who have more knowledge of the effects of certain Holistic Herbs.

[chodelord]

Fighters can get evasion w/ monk or rogue levels. You trade the capstone + 1 fighter feat for it. For a twf fighter the damage you get out of 1d6+3 sneak and dying less pretty much makes up for the capstone.

Alternatively you can go 2 monk where you get 2 extra feats, probably user for moar toughness. A very legit choices for snb stalwart as the capstone isn't quiet as useful for them as it is for kensai.

I wouldnt recommend that build unless you have totally uber gear and are on your 3rd+ life.

[eonfreon]

Really an AA is very useful in the right times. (epic DQ comes to mind)
Melee Dps Rangers can dps very well when fully geared.
and rangers can get high hp without even trying.

I just take it you fully don't understand what a ranger fully designed for. As for your evasion enchancement line that is just so not worth it. if you want evasion take your 2 lvls of rogue or monk and you get it instantly.

Well, I agree with most of this except for Rangers can get high hp without even trying. Of the traditional melee classes, Rangers get the least hp other than Monks. As a d8 class, Rangers has to start at a 16 Con to have the same base hp as a d10 class like Fighter or Paladin that started with a 12 Con. And they don't have any Class Toughness Feats.

That's why they have Evasion. It's supposed to represent their speed and supposed to make them better at killing Casters.

[Aranel12]

and yes i agree with the kitting the casters and killing them since they have evasion

[Aashrym]

Or it could mean a fighter that dumped con, has no toughness, has no false life loot, and no fort. In other words, one gimped toon.

Reminds me of a wizard I grouped with whom I will never forget. Con 6 elf wizard, no toughness, no CON items, 5 hp belt from Korthos.

Tomb of the Shadow King on Normal and he was level 9. I have never seen anyone die so many times. By your standards he was caster light?

He didn't get evasion either.

[Emili]

Isn't that low though?

Crossing the 30 mark is where evasion really kicks in well... High 20's is ok and while reflex is a fighter's weak save yet you can pull off a 30 if you had reasonable dex + dex items, resistance item, luck item, spells and/or feated in luck of heros, lightning reflexes...

One previous version of Emili (back in level cap 14) she was standing 28 reflex save before spell buffed and still had reasonable con/hp and max'd out str for the day. Fighters at one time used to spec for AC and a decent set of saves ... you had to take a beating and most of the damage comming in was actually from spells believe it or not.

The availability of higher hp caps, elemental absobtion and elemental resist items and cheap healing made such that half-damage saves < mopping up full damage ... the former became trivial. Fact is evasion is not a be all end all at all... the higher the hp added plus absobtion actually in many cases supperior in survivablity compared to flipping it around on such toons.

imo... the real payoff of splashing rogue on a fighter are UMD and SA - evasion just an added perk, Likewise with monk the AC if you were pursuing such and again evasion is just a perk.

[ShortRanger]

Really an AA is very useful in the right times. (epic DQ comes to mind)
Melee Dps Rangers can dps very well when fully geared.
and rangers can get high hp without even trying.

I just take it you fully don't understand what a ranger fully designed for. As for your evasion enchancement line that is just so not worth it. if you want evasion take your 2 lvls of rogue or monk and you get it instantly.

As a player with two capped DPS Tempest III Rangers I fully understand what they are capable of and designed for.

For this TR I will be taking the rogue levels to get Evasion. I won't drop the cash for the Monk class.

[ShortRanger]

Ready to let this drop.

Seems most of the folks think it is not a good idea.

Thanks for all you input.

[Talias006]

While your idea was clever, it wasn't anything new. In fact, iirc, there was a ring that gave Evasion. Which sparked an enormous debate, and many fires were ignited before they finally ruled that all evasion abilities had to use either light armor or none at all. Fighter's can be light tanks, but they have to sacrifice to be able to do so. Namely multi'ing into monk2, rogue2 or ranger9. But that has been said already. If you want to leave things as they stand balance-wise, then that's probably for the best. Balance is a difficult creature to nail down anyways.

[SiliconShadow]

I think we need a new item ingame:

Full plate of irony
+1 Full plate heavy armour, race stricly excluded: Warforged
ML: 1
Rigid: This item prevents excess movement and furthers the skill penalty by 4 and reduces movement to -10% base.
Evasion: This armour bestows all the effects of evasion when the wearer is in light armour or cloth.
Weakness: The wearer cannot benefit from any toughness feats while wearing this armour.

Imma farm for this baby when it comes out!

[NaturalHazard]

uh whats a light fighter????

a halfling fighter?

a lightweight/welter weight, fly weight?

instead of light heavy, heavy weight, cruiser weight super heavy weight?

[Talias006]

I think we need a new item ingame:

Full plate of irony
+1 Full plate heavy armour, race stricly excluded: Warforged
ML: 1
Rigid: This item prevents excess movement and furthers the skill penalty by 4 and reduces movement to -10% base.
Evasion: This armour bestows all the effects of evasion when the wearer is in light armour or cloth.
Weakness: The wearer cannot benefit from any toughness feats while wearing this armour.

Imma farm for this baby when it comes out!

LOL, that's great!

[Astraghal]

Crossing the 30 mark is where evasion really kicks in well... High 20's is ok and while reflex is a fighter's weak save yet you can pull off a 30 if you had reasonable dex + dex items, resistance item, luck item, spells and/or feated in luck of heros, lightning reflexes...

One previous version of Emili (back in level cap 14) she was standing 28 reflex save before spell buffed and still had reasonable con/hp and max'd out str for the day. Fighters at one time used to spec for AC and a decent set of saves ... you had to take a beating and most of the damage comming in was actually from spells believe it or not.

The availability of higher hp caps, elemental absobtion and elemental resist items and cheap healing made such that half-damage saves < mopping up full damage ... the former became trivial. Fact is evasion is not a be all end all at all... the higher the hp added plus absobtion actually in many cases supperior in survivablity compared to flipping it around on such toons.

imo... the real payoff of splashing rogue on a fighter are UMD and SA - evasion just an added perk, Likewise with monk the AC if you were pursuing such and again evasion is just a perk.

I don't know if I could hit 30+ Reflex on a pure Fighter without spending feats on it.

I like the concept though and if they brought out some nifty light armor in the future, it might be worth building for.