Please, for the love of all thats sacred......

[Pallol_One-Eye]

If you are going to build a Wizard/Rogue and plan on finding/disabling traps, make sure your saves are high enough that if you stand where the trap is going to spawn you will not be 1-shotted........on normal..........REPEATEDLY. Take the rez outside of the trapped area, is that a difficult notion to grasp???

Also, while using your "uber casting ability", please make sure you can either a) handle the aggro yourself or b) make sure the rest of your party is nearby so we can dispose of said aggro'd mobs. You spam-casting acid arrow on them will not kill 15+ mobs chasing you at the same time when you are bumping around the quest with 110 hp and 0 Fort.

Do not run in the opposite direction with a train of aggro following you like a Mardi Gras parade.

/rant off.....you know who you are, that is all.

[Molotov]

lol

[Cauthey]

This must be a common error. Cause I (Metalbone) did this like months ago trying to trap in lieu of a real rogue in VoN5.

Though, at least I won't make the same error again.

[Pallol_One-Eye]

This must be a common error. Cause I (Metalbone) did this like months ago trying to trap in lieu of a real rogue in VoN5.

Though, at least I won't make the same error again.

This being the case, you are echelons ahead of the individual this post is directed to. When someone is giving you "advice" on playing a character, you may want to listen. Especially if this is your first character and the person giving the advice has played the same type of character and can help you out.

Hints such as, "If you are lacking spot/search/disable gear, let me know and I will send you some" should NOT be taken as an insult. What was meant was exactly what was stated. There were no undertones or insinuations meant or delivered.

When you are running a quest you have never run before, please "listen" to those of us who have done it before. I gave no spoilers to ruin it for said individual, but helpful hints like "The mobs here will keep respawning, lets move on to the next part please" should not be THAT difficult to understand.

Last bit of "advice" here......you have haste, haste is apreciated and will help me get that HUGE train of mobs off of your backside. You may want to consider actually using it from time to time. This may be the reason why both mana pots I pulled went to the FvS, not you, capiche?

p.s. This was not directed at "you", kind sir whom I quoted.

[hermespan]

I've never understood the wizard/rogue thing. Why on earth would you give up your capstone, spell points and DC for evasion and trap skills? Trap skills are almost like anuses, seems like everyone has them. At cap, you simply don't need them. They are redundant. Between exploiter builds and various other rogue multiclasses that have better synergy with rogue, seems like at least 25% of characters have fully developed trap skills.

With 30 resists, you don't need evasion except for traps, and on hard and elite, you need improved evasion to survive traps to disable them anyway. You need every DC you can get for epic.

I'll go away now.

[DaSawks]

Too funny. I saw a genius Rogue die in a trap. He then "caked" himself alive in the trap and died again. And again, and again, again.... Ragequit.

[Pallol_One-Eye]

Too funny. I saw a genius Rogue die in a trap. He then "caked" himself alive in the trap and died again. And again, and again, again.... Ragequit.

Our poor FvS, who was quite the trooper BTW, must have rezzed this guy at least 5 times in the same trap.

I KNOW he understood English and was not an ESL judging by his use of slang. When we replied via chat AND voice to please take the rez outside the trap's area he simply could not comply.

I have not run a 40 minute Wiz King for a VERY long time, lol.

[Molotov]

Woah, 40 minute wiz king? wow

[Pallol_One-Eye]

Woah, 40 minute wiz king? wow

Molo, I dragged him through a 25 minute OOB after that....how stupid am I????

I guess I was smart enough to say no to a Chains run after that though. Maybe I actually did learn my lesson???

[Cauthey]

p.s. This was not directed at "you", kind sir whom I quoted.

Oh, I could tell. And even if it was - I'm still cool with you calling me down a month later.

Yes - my efforts at trapping in VoN5 were made as we were unable to fill the position with a real rogue. And, never having attempted the VoN5 traps - I had no idea what I was in for!

I had gone and tried to find the max DC numbers on the Wiki, and confirmed that I could hit most, and might get the highest one (dancing blades in between the two sets of doors) if I was REAL lucky.

And I was extremely vocal about knowing my own limitations. Had I heard your offering of gear - I might have dismissed it for the time being out of pride, and immediately hit the AH after completion. Or, if it was ahead of time, take your offer as a "oh yeah...I should check my gear before we enter."

I certainly won't turn away advice, either. I'm still too new to turn away advice. So long as the advice isn't "wait wait - let's bless the chest first." I imagine that veterans occasionally learn something new from time to time, too.

[Syllph]

I've never understood the wizard/rogue thing. Why on earth would you give up your capstone, spell points and DC for evasion and trap skills? Trap skills are almost like anuses, seems like everyone has them. At cap, you simply don't need them. They are redundant. Between exploiter builds and various other rogue multiclasses that have better synergy with rogue, seems like at least 25% of characters have fully developed trap skills.

With 30 resists, you don't need evasion except for traps, and on hard and elite, you need improved evasion to survive traps to disable them anyway. You need every DC you can get for epic.

I'll go away now.

2 cents:

Having a wiz/rogue myself I'd say the joy is in not having to wait for a rogue. Many times my wiz/rogue does traps better than a "real" rogue because they don't have gear or think it's beneath them to do traps. Some quests disabling traps make everything easier. All quests it gives +15% XP and simply having evasion rocks. Seriously, my DC at cap for enchant is 44 and Necro is 40, having the wiz cap would be fun but not essential. With Insightful reflexes (The mentioned rogue most likely did not have this feat) the only traps I can't /dance in are on epic.

[Khanyth]

Agreed.... but

who is more the fool.... the fool who dies repeated in the same trap after being ress'd, or the fool who keeps on ressing the fool who won't move from the trap?

But if the fool is using their own resources to get ress'd, then by all means, let them burn their own stash.

[fluffybunnywilson]

Traps are often deadly on Elite. Traps barely tickle on Normal.

Players who have characters that die in traps on Normal when they have Evasion should be thoroughly embarassed.


I really enjoyed my Wizard 18/Rogue 2 and I'm enjoying my Wizard 20 just as much (in a slightly different way). Both builds have a lot to offer, but *NEITHER* of them should be dying in traps.

For goodness sake, PLEASE get some HP! All of you 98 HP weaklings are embarassing us as a class!

[Dexxaan]

I've never understood the wizard/rogue thing. Why on earth would you give up your capstone, spell points and DC for evasion and trap skills? Trap skills are almost like anuses, seems like everyone has them. At cap, you simply don't need them. They are redundant. Between exploiter builds and various other rogue multiclasses that have better synergy with rogue, seems like at least 25% of characters have fully developed trap skills.

With 30 resists, you don't need evasion except for traps, and on hard and elite, you need improved evasion to survive traps to disable them anyway. You need every DC you can get for epic.

I'll go away now.

Why on earth?

If you don´t understand I´m assuming you´ve asked around to make sure someone explains to you that:

* Evasion for a Wizard is insanely powerful due to the IR feat. (My Evasion Wiz has 43 Reflex save - Epic traps... I can have a cup of coffeee in em...except for 5% of the time )

* Evasion allows you to avoid DBF´s / Lightning Bolts / Etc effectively tripling your survivability. (Do you ever solo quests or farm epic scrolls?)

* I prefer and TR´d my UMD self Healing Drow WIz/Rogue for a major improvement as WF Wiz/Monk. I run Epic all the time (also solo-farm EV1, EV2, EV4 & EV5) and there is no need for a 44+ INT nor a higher DC.


*** The only case I would agree with your statement of need for Higher DC´s would be if I was running EPIC quests with a Half Orc Wizard, with only a +1 INT tome, and no Greensteel/Tod INT enhancements. - Of course no one should put guildies nor a PUG through that punishment in ANY run...right?

* Since you mentioned Rogue skills being available "like anuses" (and I agree) I´ll also mention that Mana Pots are available like chicken droppings on a farm... therefore if you are concerned about the difference between a pure Wizard´s SP´s and the splash version... meh.



Hope this clears things up for you.



Bruttus



.

[mws2970]

For goodness sake, PLEASE get some HP! All of you 98 HP weaklings are embarassing us as a class!

This sounds like a PSA for both rogues and wizards/sorcs, but really could apply to any class! LOL

[Pallol_One-Eye]

Agreed.... but

who is more the fool.... the fool who dies repeated in the same trap after being ress'd, or the fool who keeps on ressing the fool who won't move from the trap?

But if the fool is using their own resources to get ress'd, then by all means, let them burn their own stash.

But, but, but he was our Arcane "blaster"...as such we needed him I also failed to mention it was his LFM, so the rockin FvS continued to rez him.

Traps are often deadly on Elite. Traps barely tickle on Normal.

Players who have characters that die in traps on Normal when they have Evasion should be thoroughly embarassed.


I really enjoyed my Wizard 18/Rogue 2 and I'm enjoying my Wizard 20 just as much (in a slightly different way). Both builds have a lot to offer, but *NEITHER* of them should be dying in traps.

For goodness sake, PLEASE get some HP! All of you 98 HP weaklings are embarassing us as a class!

I agree with the above. Having a 14/2 wiz/rogue myself, I must say even poorly built, the mix can be very enjoyable.

The one thing I suspect he was missing he will hopefully get at lvl 11, Insightful Reflexes. Having stated the obvious, he still must have gimped himself on DEX cause his saves blew dog. Even my crappy Ranger made all of his saves.

[Phidius]

I've never understood the wizard/rogue thing. Why on earth would you give up your capstone, spell points and DC for evasion, full ranks in UMD and trap skills? Trap skills are almost like anuses, seems like everyone has them. At cap, you simply don't need them. They are redundant. Between exploiter builds and various other rogue multiclasses that have better synergy with rogue, seems like at least 25% of characters have fully developed trap skills.

It's more than just trap skills and evasion, although those are a big chunk of it.

The changes to Intimidate hurt my fun with the splash, but it's still a good splash.

...
With 30 resists, you don't need evasion except for traps, and on hard and elite, you need improved evasion to survive traps to disable them anyway...

This is a common myth. Here's a hint - you don't have to be in the trap to disable the control box.

Remember, on a properly built Wiz/Rog, improved evasion has a 1/20th chance of being needed.

... You need every DC you can get for epic.

I'll go away now.

Actually, it's the spell penetration that is needed the most.

2 cents:

Having a wiz/rogue myself I'd say the joy is in not having to wait for a rogue. Many times my wiz/rogue does traps better than a "real" rogue because they don't have gear or think it's beneath them to do traps. Some quests disabling traps make everything easier. All quests it gives +15% XP and simply having evasion rocks...

Agreed. Evasion isn't "needed", but it makes the game more fun for me.

Agreed.... but

who is more the fool.... the fool who dies repeated in the same trap after being ress'd, or the fool who keeps on ressing the fool who won't move from the trap?

But if the fool is using their own resources to get ress'd, then by all means, let them burn their own stash.

A stack of Raise Dead scrolls is pretty cheap, and the entertainment is well worth it

[Feralthyrtiaq]

I have ran with capable rogue/wiz builds and useless pure rogues. If you solo alot or have a semi static group the rogue skills can be very valuable to you and your mates on a number of levels. But...if you try these multiclass rogue splashes (which the word "splash" sounds like something you offhandledly added to ur class on a whim and more often than not its no more useful than an actual cute lil splash of water) you MUST test ur skills and modify accordingly outside of a pug! So when you do join u can confidently SPOT, SPOT, SPOT, SPOT, SPOT (get it? IDGAF how good your memory is, if your spot is not high enuff u r next to worthless) search, find and disable and win the hearts and admiration of your party members.

AND PLEASE... ALL YOU ROGUE SPLASHES, with a FULL ROGUE in PARTY.....LET ME GET THE GD TRAPS, I KNOW FEW OF U ACTUALLY USE THE TRAP PARTS. IF YOU are an 18WIZ/2 ROGUE YOU DONT NEED TRAP PARTS and SOME ROGUES USE THEM! If you are some Rgu/FTR/Ranger Combo built for melee DPS you DONT need the GD TRAP PARTS EITHER. I didnt sacrifice a spell slot on my sorc to get trap the soul spell because it sounded evil and cool...I dint spent time getting favor for a Lrg Ing bag to hold f-n Lily Petals, Large Bones and Infernal Chains only.

/Deep Breath

If you are a rogue splash and I am on any other non rogue toon...and you get all the traps in at level elite quests. GREAT JOB! Really appreciate your efforts to make sure your skills are skillfull

Returning to the Source TRd 1Mnk/9Rog Black Lotus-ish build
Ketzerish Kindjal 16 Rogue Assasin

[Kalari]

Hi there love the rant Feralthyrtiaq but gonna have to counter you just because. All these so called professional rogues who go on about being able to do traps to get the parts crack me up when they then proceed to blow up boxes then get mad at my hybrid rogues for getting it done.

I can't speak for others but the hybrid rogues I built were made to be versitale and get traps from elite to epics my bard rogues utilize their skills in fighting, healing and getting down traps and anyone who has run with Nyxy knows she knows her stuff and ranger/rogues just gel so well its not even funny.

I know there are hybrid haters out there and it does not help when you got people multiclassing and not bothering to figure out what they can be doing with the build or gearing them properly but as someone who has decent hybrid builds I take offense to these supposed better pure rogues getting mad when I decide im tired of seeing boxes go boom and get the darn traps myself. I have a pure assassin rogue who does traps fine to but if a hybrid wants to save me the headaches of getting boxes so I can be all stabby stabby have at it.


And Pallol remember ya can't fix stupid and unfortunately sounds like what you were dealing with on that run *hugs* I know a lot of us had to take advice from others when we were starting out, some good some opinions. I know there are really good tips I have taken and used and others (like dont play elves) I've ignored sometimes you just got to hope that a person like that learns.

[t0r012]

I've never understood the wizard/rogue thing. Why on earth would you give up your capstone, spell points and DC for evasion and trap skills? Trap skills are almost like anuses, seems like everyone has them. At cap, you simply don't need them. They are redundant. Between exploiter builds and various other rogue multiclasses that have better synergy with rogue, seems like at least 25% of characters have fully developed trap skills.

With 30 resists, you don't need evasion except for traps, and on hard and elite, you need improved evasion to survive traps to disable them anyway. You need every DC you can get for epic.

I'll go away now.

full umd ranks access + bonus skill points + evasion on a low HP class + synergy with the prime important trap stat Int.
trap skills are just icing

all of that for a measly -2 DC ( -1 levels & -1 Int capstone)

me personally I'll take a WF 18wiz/2 rogue swiss army knife over cap wiz. Been meaning to roll one , just havent yet due to monk addiction with a pally chaser.