Making "Divine Might" of equal value to its cost

[vermentto]

Ok , so if we buff up DM with a 1,5 multiplier , why not EVERYTHING ?
No.
The edge of THF is more DPS on crowd , less feats .The edges of TWF is more DPS on single target , more sinergy from buffs/bonus .But it cost twice the grind and a lot of feats that you MUST have , unlike THF that works well just with PA and cleave , and the game doesnt allow the same class of weapon : nothing like a eSoS for TWF .
Each has its own strengh.
So enjoy the attention turbine gives to you ( like the creation of a THF feat line or the high requirements of DM , coz few TWF can afford to have such a high charisma ....).

And no , 1 minutes is already very nice , no extended duration needed and no perma DM.
Why ? a perma damage boosted melee is called a fighter or a barbarian.It cost them their whole toon.Not just a couple of points.

[Zerkul]

Change DM to a feat instead of enhancement ... make it a ''free action'' like a quickened cast... change it to add the charisma modifier as bonus to damage.

Implement the Divine Shield feat as well and you get some real Paladin's Love.



Maybe i played D&D too much you could argue .

[Ralmeth]

Change DM to a feat instead of enhancement

No, thanks. Paladins are already way too tight on feats to put in a requirement for another feat.

[elraido]

Change DM to a feat instead of enhancement ... make it a ''free action'' like a quickened cast... change it to add the charisma modifier as bonus to damage.

Implement the Divine Shield feat as well and you get some real Paladin's Love.



Maybe i played D&D too much you could argue .

Worst idea ever. Like just mentioned, Paladins have a very tough time choosing the feats they need as it is.

[TheDearLeader]

No, thanks. Paladins are already way too tight on feats to put in a requirement for another feat.

Worst idea ever. Like just mentioned, Paladins have a very tough time choosing the feats they need as it is.

Gotta echo these guys. Paladins need dem feats.

[eulogy098]

Change DM to a feat instead

This is a complete change of the entire mechanic and would take ages to be worked out by developers.

And I couldn't disagree with it more, paladins have no bonus feats and thus no room for it.


I stand by the suggestion of 1.5 bonus for Two Handed Fighting, faster cast animation, and cha based duration (or at least the same duration scaling as Zeal).

[ShadowFlash]

My Cleric has DM II, and will eventually have DMIII. It seemed a worthwhile choice to sacrifice for, considering I wanted the higher CHA for extra bursts anyhow and it served as a pre-req for RS. I don't use it often ( mainly casting time/duration ) but with the improved Divine Power/favor times, it is easier to initially use all 3 for that big fight. Usually after that 1st minute, I'm starting to be concerned on healing duties anyhow. The long cast time is not a huge issue initially, as a cleric shouldn't be the 1st in anyhow BUT, as it is now, it is ONLY useful to start the fight, and useless while in the mix due to casting time. The extra 6 secs x CHA mod would be nice ( which isn't all that much ), just so it doesn't overlap with clickies and gives a realistic longest to shortest pre-boss-fight buff sequence.

[Bufo_Alvarius]

Worst idea ever. Like just mentioned, Paladins have a very tough time choosing the feats they need as it is.

Give pallies class feat slots like rogues/monks/etc. Done.

[DoctorWhofan]

Look, All the math is killing me. I'll let you guys argue that. What I want is longer duration and cheaper to get. Pally hurt in the AP department. If those two things happen, it will make the rest left as is ok.

[Gratan]

I think the DM line is pretty good the way it is. The only thing i would like to see is that for every teir you get your duration adds one min also. That way teir one is +2 dam and one min, teir two is +4 dam and two mins., teir three is +6 dam. and three mins, and teir four is +8 dam. and four mins. If you are able to get to teir four DM would last about as long as your other pure pally buffs extended.

[ShadowFlash]

I think the DM line is pretty good the way it is. The only thing i would like to see is that for every teir you get your duration adds one min also. That way teir one is +2 dam and one min, teir two is +4 dam and two mins., teir three is +6 dam. and three mins, and teir four is +8 dam. and four mins. If you are able to get to teir four DM would last about as long as your other pure pally buffs extended.

Not a bad idea on the minute by tier increments ( and personally my ideal scenario ), but I think you'd have many screaming OP at that point. I agree it makes complete sense from the buffing aspect, for paladins and clerics alike. Extended Combat buffs are all around 4 minutes anyhow and would make it very useful. If duration was to scale that high, I'de leave casting time alone to balance it somewhat as there wouldn't be much need to trigger it in the middle of a fight. Cleric balance is easy, as it will always compete with RS aura/burst.

I haven't rolled a Pali yet, but my take on the "battle"-cleric is Tier III tops due to AP constraints ( especially now due to the no-save smiting line being usefull even on a melee build ). This means for a cleric (Self-cast Combat Buffs Only)....

+1 atk (morale) : Bless (1min/level=basically always when extended)
+3 atk & dmg (luck) : Divine Favor(2min with Extend)
~~+2 atk(luck) : Recitation(takes over after DF runs out for another 1min24sec)
full BAB : Divine Power(6sec/level=3min24sec on 17 cleric)
+6/+8 Damage(sacred) : DMIII/DMIV(3/4 min under proposed change)

for 3min24sec on a 17cleric ( 3 level splash )
Full BAB
+3-4 atk
+8-9 dmg for 3min24sec(TIER III)
+10-11 dmg Tier IV

Of course subtract casting times for 4 spells + Divine Might, and I personally do not think it's Overpowered, but I'd like to see a similar breakdown for a Pali

[bloodnose13]

i would be much better if divine might were 1 tier enchancement costing about 4 ap, and would add a charisma modifier to damage with duration of 20 seconds for each cha modifier point, it would be rewarding for everyone who gets high charisma on paladin or cleric, also adding a divine shield based of the same rules would give another nice enchancement choice. i know that i was reading somewhere that its suposed to work similar to this, oh and pnp version has requirements like power attack and 13 in both str and cha stats.

if divine might worked like that it would be completely up to player how much cha he wants and how much bonus he will get from it.

[joneb1999]

I know the game must be balanced so maybe we are asking for too much but in all fairness there needs to be a better reason for investing in DM and in line with its divine origin (for cleric and paladin). Also the following does benefit both twf and thf.

To this end I suggest:

• Divine Might becomes good damage and causes any weapon you wield to break good DR. Consequently the good damage doesnt affect good or neutral enemies.
• When using a good/holy weapon there is also an additional 5% chance per tier for weapon effects to trigger on glancing blows for that weapon (evil creatures taking those blows have much more of a chance to take more good/holy damage)
• The timer should be 1 minute 15 seconds at tier 1 and 15 seconds more per tier above this. So even achieving tier 4 is only 2 minutes length.
• Fast casting time.

[eulogy098]

I know the game must be balanced so maybe we are asking for too much but in all fairness there needs to be a better reason for investing in DM and in line with its divine origin (for cleric and paladin). Also the following does benefit both twf and thf.

To this end I suggest:

• Divine Might becomes good damage and causes any weapon you wield to break good DR. Consequently the good damage doesnt affect good or neutral enemies.
• When using a good/holy weapon there is also an additional 5% chance per tier for weapon effects to trigger on glancing blows for that weapon (evil creatures taking those blows have much more of a chance to take more good/holy damage)
• The timer should be 1 minute 15 seconds at tier 1 and 15 seconds more per tier above this. So even achieving tier 4 is only 2 minutes length.
• Fast casting time.

My problem with your suggestion is that it makes the Capstone, which is primarily awesome because it makes the Weapon good aligned (thus making paladins the only class to break many DR's with epic weapons), completely irrelevant.

Also, the more complicated a suggestion- the less likely it's going to happen within the next year or two. Your suggestion would require complete reprogramming of the ability so even if it were heavily supported (though i dont support it) it would take a very, very long time to be implemented.

I believe my ide layout would be fairly simple to edit, and that makes it reasonable to ask for in the very near future.

[joneb1999]

My problem with your suggestion is that it makes the Capstone, which is primarily awesome because it makes the Weapon good aligned (thus making paladins the only class to break many DR's with epic weapons), completely irrelevant.

Also, the more complicated a suggestion- the less likely it's going to happen within the next year or two. Your suggestion would require complete reprogramming of the ability so even if it were heavily supported (though i dont support it) it would take a very, very long time to be implemented.

I believe my ide layout would be fairly simple to edit, and that makes it reasonable to ask for in the very near future.

I havent played a paladin so didnt know about the capstone. The mechanics for a percentage chance for glancing blows to proc weapon effecs is already there. Im only suggesting add it to Divine Might.

[elraido]

One thing that popped into my little brain. People are saying it favors TWF over THF...that much is obvious. If you increase the str mod to 1.5, where does that leave a benifit for S&B users? TWF'ers would get the off hand attack at +8 damage, THF'ers would get that 1.5 str mod...S&B, nothing (besides the +8 damage). Personally, I am starting to think shorten the casting time and extend the time 30 seconds/level.

[Thrudh]

The cast time is insane. I built my melee Cleric to be able to take advantage of it, but with the time it takes to hit DM, Human Damage Boost, and DP/DF..... I need to time it very carefully, or else it's actually a loss to me.

Please either increase the duration, or shorten the cast time.
Thanks.

This.

Increase the duration and/or shorten the cast time is my vote...

To get high levels of DM takes costs a LOT of stat points... It should be easier to use.

[eulogy098]

If you can hit divine might 4, wouldn't that mean you probably have a 28 charisma (18 base, +2 tome, +6 item, +2 pally enhancements)? Thats like 13 base turns, more if you are hunter of the dead, more if you take any enhancements, and more if you have cleric past lives.

13mins between shrines isn't enough?


As for reducing the casting time, I've been playing with it for Stars current and last lives, and its about the casting time of a normal instant buff spell. I don't see a problem with it at all. Or does it get longer with the higher tiers? I've only ever bothered to get the first or second tiers.

The total length of time that DM can be maintained is more then enough, it's effectively infinate. A level 20 paladin can easily maintain the buff for the entire duration of an dungeon. That's not the issue. The issue is the pointless inconvience of maintaining it. It has a very long cast time and a very short duration, the player spends far more time Casting the spell then is necessary.

You're rite, Divine Might doesnt need a longer total time that it can be kept on the Paladin, it already lasts forever. And since it already lasts forever, why not just remove the absurdly annoying chore or casting it ever 60 seconds ?

Divine Mights duration and usage isnt balanced around being a "use only when needed" ability, it's balanced around being on all of the time (thus the extremely high cost, and very long period of time that it can be maintained) so ultimately there is no real reason to have it be so tedious to maintain.


Heck, with the fact that it is so easily maintained forever acknowledged, why not just have it be passive? Would that really make any actual difference to the class other then having one pointlessly annoying part of the every-single-fight routine removed ? Or if it lasted a wopping 30 minutes do you really expect the overall damage of a paladin is changed at all? It's not, simply one of the un-fun aspects of the class is removed and the fun-factor over all is increased a little bit as a result.

[Ralmeth]

One thing that popped into my little brain. People are saying it favors TWF over THF...that much is obvious. If you increase the str mod to 1.5, where does that leave a benifit for S&B users? TWF'ers would get the off hand attack at +8 damage, THF'ers would get that 1.5 str mod...S&B, nothing (besides the +8 damage). Personally, I am starting to think shorten the casting time and extend the time 30 seconds/level.

/Agreed. The last thing we need is more disparity in DPS between S&B and TWF or THF. I like the idea of a much faster casting time for divine might (like divine favor or zeal) and a duration of 30 seconds per tier of DM.

[joneb1999]

A fast cast time and extended duration on Divine Might please!