Making "Divine Might" of equal value to its cost

[Darkrok]

I said almost. I am all for removing the casting time (make it like loh, and instant effect). But adding more damage or adding to hit, that is asking too much.

Remove the casting time and give it a 50% modifier for THF. There are far too many abilities in this game that either massively favor TWF or THF (doublestrike on the latter). Some sort of normalization would be good in order to make THF versus TWF more of a choice and less of a conclusion based on the rest of the build.

[Habreno]

/Signed. AND PLEASE DON'T FORGET CLERICS! We do get Divine Might too you know!

[arminius]

I agree to either shortening the implementation time to that of Frenzy (which is not instantaneous, it still interrupts and pauses actions for a short time), or lengthening the duration, or both. Many times I find myself just skipping it, because it takes one out of the fight for too long.

[eulogy098]

I agree to either shortening the implementation time to that of Frenzy (which is not instantaneous, it still interrupts and pauses actions for a short time), or lengthening the duration, or both. Many times I find myself just skipping it, because it takes one out of the fight for too long.

It's also a lot easier to justify the stop for Frenzy, as it offers a lot more damage than Divine Might.

[chodelord]

Actually I have a good idea. The timer should stop counting down 3-5 seconds after your last swing. And you should be able to add 1 minute to the timer with each use of the ability.

That way you could "front load" your divine might casting time without having to micro manage it during the fight. There is still resource management but it isn't quite as tedious.

[DrNuegebauer]

Totally disagree with the 1.5 damage bonus for 2HF

Dex builds need to invest 8(ish) build points into dex, then buy a tome.
Much harder for a 2WF toon to finish with the CHR needed for DMIV - they have to sacrifice elsewhere to do so.

Plus, there's nobody saying you're forbidden from being a 2WF toon yourself anyway!

[Phemt81]

Erase the "pure stat" request and you have a reasonable enhancement.

[joneb1999]

Yeh please make Divine Might fast cast and/or extendable. It makes up for taking extend away from other cleric spells and effects including the radiant aura and makes the extend at least that little bit more useful to a cleric again and not so much a joke feat.

Since the aura and bursts also eat up turns an extend would make DM more useful for all clerics instead of many if not most clerics not thinking he DM feat worthwhile wasting turns that could be used for radiant servant.

Seems to me its win all round for cleric/paladin players and for devs for making a feat and an enhancement currently almost useless, useful again and therefore make up for some bad game mechanic decisions.

Infact I personally think divine might damage should be

• "holy damage" with a x2 critical modifier
• extendable
• fast cast

[Brennie]

Totally disagree with the 1.5 damage bonus for 2HF

Dex builds need to invest 8(ish) build points into dex, then buy a tome.
Much harder for a 2WF toon to finish with the CHR needed for DMIV - they have to sacrifice elsewhere to do so.

Plus, there's nobody saying you're forbidden from being a 2WF toon yourself anyway!

I tentatively agree with this. However, I'd like to see a bit more discussion before committing.

Most static damage boosts affects TWF more than THF. This, i believe, is on purpose. TWF is a lot more difficult to achieve, requiring 3 feats and 17 base dex, ESPECIALLY on a MAD stat dependent class like paladin, while THF gets extra damage in the form of glancing blows, 1.5x strength, double power attack (Which is only relevant because TWFers only get 80% offhand chance, so strength and power attack does slightly favor THF), and can easily leave behind its feat chain.

Additionally, since Zeal already favors THF, I'm concerned that the significantly harder to build TWF Paladin might be complete outclassed by the THF paladin. I do note, however, that Knight of the Chalice bonuses, Hunter of the Dead TeirIII disruption, and the capstone all favor Two Weapon Fighting, but they are situational bonuses that make it harder to factor into "overall usefulness".

If it can still be reasonably assumed that GTWF is still worth the difficulty and sacrifice required, then I am on board with 50% higher divine might for THF.

[Habreno]

Perhaps THF = extra 10% duration
ITHF = additional 30% duration
GTHF = additional 60% duration (totaling double duration)

EDIT: At above poster

[eulogy098]

I tentatively agree with this. However, I'd like to see a bit more discussion before committing.

Most static damage boosts affects TWF more than THF. This, i believe, is on purpose. TWF is a lot more difficult to achieve, requiring 3 feats and 17 base dex, ESPECIALLY on a MAD stat dependent class like paladin, while THF gets extra damage in the form of glancing blows, 1.5x strength, double power attack (Which is only relevant because TWFers only get 80% offhand chance, so strength and power attack does slightly favor THF), and can easily leave behind its feat chain.

Additionally, since Zeal already favors THF, I'm concerned that the significantly harder to build TWF Paladin might be complete outclassed by the THF paladin. I do note, however, that Knight of the Chalice bonuses, Hunter of the Dead TeirIII disruption, and the capstone all favor Two Weapon Fighting, but they are situational bonuses that make it harder to factor into "overall usefulness".

If it can still be reasonably assumed that GTWF is still worth the difficulty and sacrifice required, then I am on board with 50% higher divine might for THF.

Scenario: TWF paladin using dual Lit2 Khopesh with DM3 (my suggested version)
---vs----: THF Paladin using Lit2 Great-sword (or axe or falchion)ith DM4 (my suggested version)


I would be willing to wager even with the THF paladin having a full rank higher of Divine Might, and benefiting from my suggested 50% increase for THF, the TWF paladin would still noticeably outclass the THF. And there's no doubt in my mind that the TWF still be much more DPS if the scenario has them both with DM3 or both with DM4.

[Rdonaccount]

Scenario: TWF paladin using dual Lit2 Khopesh with DM3 (my suggested version)
---vs----: THF Paladin using Lit2 Great-sword with DM4 (my suggested version)


I would be willing to wager even with the THF paladin having a full rank higher of Divine Might, and benefiting from my suggested 50% increase for THF, the TWF paladin would still noticeably outclass the THF. And there's no doubt in my mind that the TWF still be much more DPS if the scenario has them both with DM3 or both with DM4.

But you are comparing a nearly optimal TWF build (lit2 is nearly as high dps as any epic khopesh) to a suboptimal gs weapon choice for THF. Of course there is going to be a dps gap. But compare it in terms of end game weapons, and those differences would likely be very balanced already.

[phalaeo]

The cast time is insane. I built my melee Cleric to be able to take advantage of it, but with the time it takes to hit DM, Human Damage Boost, and DP/DF..... I need to time it very carefully, or else it's actually a loss to me.

Please either increase the duration, or shorten the cast time.
Thanks.

[countfitz]

I already wrote this in your previous thread, but my suggestion:

Each level of Divine Might adds one minute, DM 1 = 1 minute --> DM 4 = 4 minutes, no other changes needed, which also means the greater investment = the greater benefit.

[TheKaige]

I am all for removing the casting time (make it like loh, and instant effect). But adding more damage or adding to hit, that is asking too much.

This.

Although I'd prefer that there was 0 interrupt when you use Dive Might; LoH at least stops you from fighting for a split second.

[SiliconShadow]

I agree this needs buffing totally, I have 22 charisma after items, tome etc and I have a standing 42 strength and 32 con.

If I had gone into charisma I would of lost 8 strength +4 to hit and +4 damage ALL the time for this far less than adequate enhancement, I struggled with enhancements and had to skip several that I wanted to take as it was, I had to skip KOTC3 and I have taken nothing in the direction of resurections, no belief lines, and only 1 extra lay on hands.

Paladins are badly enhancement point starved, this entire line in my eyes is pointless and needs much more than the first post to make it viable, I would love to take my 3rd but this also costs 8ap to gain.

All extra+exhaulted smites = 20ap
Toughness enhancements = 20ap for 8 (I could only afford 7)
1st PRE = 10ap
2nd PRE = 6ap
Stat enhancements = 16ap (I spent 12)
Racial enhancements = 13ap (For warforged but usually around this unless human)
Capstone = 2ap
LOH = 6ap
Redemption (Resurection) = 8ap

I could take another 6ap for two weapon fighting enhancements, another 5ap for power attack, another 6ap for another healers friend, another 4ap for another brute fighting (Yes a tank class!), another 25 ap on auras, 20ap on boosts, 10ap on extra boosts

Okay basically 177ap of useful enhancements, and you can pick half of them, but not even full lines in damage spec because you don't have enough.

That is just how useless this enhancement line is.

[ceiswyn]

/Signed. AND PLEASE DON'T FORGET CLERICS! We do get Divine Might too you know!

...in theory. In practice, why would we bother??

I remember looking at DM on my battlecleric, realising that it involved heavily investing in a stat I otherwise had no use for at the cost of, oh, irrelevant little things like strength and wisdom, and taking Divine Cleansing instead.

The stat requirement may be fine for a paladin, but is kind of lunatic for a cleric.

[Junts]

If you can hit divine might 4, wouldn't that mean you probably have a 28 charisma (18 base, +2 tome, +6 item, +2 pally enhancements)? Thats like 13 base turns, more if you are hunter of the dead, more if you take any enhancements, and more if you have cleric past lives.

13mins between shrines isn't enough?


As for reducing the casting time, I've been playing with it for Stars current and last lives, and its about the casting time of a normal instant buff spell. I don't see a problem with it at all. Or does it get longer with the higher tiers? I've only ever bothered to get the first or second tiers.

It cant be quickened, and now all the other paladin buffs are auto-quickened.

Compared to something like power surge, its costs you several swings to use it. Power surge costs you maybe a swing to activate.

[Rdonaccount]

...in theory. In practice, why would we bother??

I remember looking at DM on my battlecleric, realising that it involved heavily investing in a stat I otherwise had no use for at the cost of, oh, irrelevant little things like strength and wisdom, and taking Divine Cleansing instead.

The stat requirement may be fine for a paladin, but is kind of lunatic for a cleric.

Why bother? the same reason paladins bother: it's the best +damage boost the class can get. For example, if my cleric ever pulls a +4 chr tome, i'll qualify for DM3, that's +6 damage for 6 build points, which would have only gotten me +1 damage/hit if I had capped strength instead. And more chr still means more turn undeads, very useful for many cleric builds anyway.

Even for a battlecleric, getting enough wisdom to cast lvl9 spells is easy, any additional investment would only be for a minor amount of SP (11 base + 2tome +6 item is enough, and better gear can get you with less of an investment).

[Nospheratus]

Paladins have many enhancements and almost all of them are useful, depending on what you want to do of course! You need to make a choice, and that's why I think paladins are one of the most enjoyable classes in the game. Perhaps also due to how hard they are to build properly, but they are also as good IMO!

If you look at the class as a whole though, they have MAD, they are Feat starved and AP starved!!! They become a seriously powerful toon if well built, but even in that case they require a lot of dedication (grind for equipment).

Maybe the issue isn't only about DM, it's about the class as a whole!


Bottom line and on topic , change DM so that it takes less time to cast or lasts longer. Sounds fair!