Feedback: Sorcerer 101 (Work in Progress)

[FordyTwo]

Hello all!

We took the community feedback from Melee 101 and went back to the drawing board on newbie class guides for DDO. The result is creating class-specific 101 guides instead of "style-encompassing" 101 guides. Another part of making these new 101 class guides is that we'd love to have your feedback early!

The purpose of this thread is to have a constructive discussion on a preview of the ability scores, feats and skills suggested in Sorcerer 101. Please feel free to give your tips, tricks or suggestions on how you feel the guide could be improved -- but remember, this is a "101" guide for newbie players who might be feeling lost.

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Edited: Added feedback from Schmoe, karl_k0ch, DemonMage, and Cauthey. Thanks!

Sorcerer 101 (Work in Progress)

==Every New Sorcerer Should Know …==

• A sorcerer's Charisma (CHA) score directly affects the strength of their spells, the Difficulty Check (DC) an enemy target must overcome, and the maximum amount of available Spell Points (SP).

• There is no single "best" race option for a sorcerer; it all comes down to personal preference. Humans are a solid choice for their level 1 feat bonus, and for the bonus CHA from Human Adaptability, an Enhancement. Conversely, warforged are popular because they can self-heal using sorcerer repair spells, and benefit from a higher Constitution (CON) -- but warforged also have lower CHA. Drow have higher innate CHA, but lower innate CON, making them strong-yet-more-fragile sorcerers.

• Train 1 rank (not ".5" -- 1.0) into the Tumble skill at character creation. In DDO, a player cannot use Tumble without training, and tumbling away from ranged attacks is a useful skill to have.

==Ability Scores==

• STR - More often than not, Strength (STR) isn't useful for sorcerers -- who fight with spells, not by swinging weapons. However, STR does affect how much loot a character can carry before becoming encumbered (i.e. slower movement); consider 10 STR if this concerns you.

• DEX - Dexterity (DEX) improves Armor Class (AC), which helps defend against physical/weapon attacks, and Reflex Saves, one of three basic Saving Throws used to avoid many spells and traps. Note: investing into DEX for a boost to AC is generally a fruitless pursuit for sorcerers.

• CON - Every character in DDO should have a solid Constitution (CON) score. A higher CON translates into more Hit Points, and a higher Fortitude Save, which results in some bonus to spell defense. It's recommended new players have 14 CON; if you feel particularly confident in being able to avoid all dangers, forever, try 12 CON.

• INT - As with all classes, Intelligence (INT) affects a sorcerer's available skill points. With a high INT, more skills can be raised, but it's generally recommended to boost Intelligence no higher than 12 unless you really feel like more skill points are important to your character build.

• WIS - A sorcerer's Spot skill and Will Save tie directly into Wisdom (WIS). While a high WIS isn't useless, few sorcerers have a score higher than 12 because Will Save can be increased by taking the Force of Personality feat.

• CHA - A sorcerer's Charisma (CHA) is their bread-and-butter score. A higher Charisma allows more max Spell Point totals and nastier DCs for the spells you cast. The great majority of sorcerers start with 18 or 20 Charisma. (20 is only available to drow and 16 is the maximum available to warforged.)

==Feats==

Often times, new players are eager to jump into DDO right away, and that's perfectly understandable. However, an essential component of successful adventuring in DDO is planning out a character's feats. At max level (20) a sorcerer will have 7 Feats total. (Note: humans have 8.) Because there are only 7 (or 8) feats to work with, feat planning doesn't take long!

Here's an example feat selection that's perfect for a new player who wants a human sorcerer good at offensive spell casting (i.e. damage-dealing evocation spells) -- otherwise known as an Evocation Sorcerer:

• Level 1) Toughness - Increases Hit Points (HP) at first level and provides additional HP for each new level, allows a player to take the Racial Toughness Enhancement.

• Level 1) Empower Spell - While this metamagic feat is active, spells do 50% more damage but consume 15 additional Spell Points (SP).

• Level 3) Maximize Spell - While this metamagic feat is active, damage spells deal double damage but consume 25 additional SP.

• Level 6) Spell Focus: Evocation - Your spells of one school of magic (Evocation) are harder to resist and break through enemy spell defenses more easily.

• Level 9) Heighten Spell - While this metamagic feat is active your spells are raised to the highest spell level your character can cast, making them more difficult to resist but increasing their spell point cost.

• Level 12) Greater Spell Focus - Your spells of one school of magic are even harder to resist; this stacks with the bonus from Spell Focus.

• Level 15) Spell Penetration - Adds +2 to your caster level check for defeating spell resistance, making it easier to attack tougher opponents.

• Level 18) Greater Spell Penetration - Adds +2 to your caster level check for defeating spell resistance, further improving the ease with which your spells strike tougher opponents (in addition to the Spell Penetration feat).


If some of the above feats aren't to your liking, consider replacing them with any of these sorcerer-friendly feats:

• Extend Spell - With this metamagic feat active, spells with durations last twice as long but consume 10 additional SP

• Force of Personality - Add your CHA modifier to your Will Saves instead of your WIS modifier, making it tougher for several spell-types to harm your sorcerer.

• Enlarge Spell - With this metamagic feat active, spells have twice the range but consume 10 additional SP.

• Quicken Spell - With this metamagic feat active, spells cast twice as fast and cannot be interrupted by enemy attacks, but consume 10 additional SP.

• Mental Toughness - Increases your maximum available SP. Note that sorcerers already have the highest pool of SP in DDO.

• Improved Mental Toughness – Further increases your maximum available SP.

==Skills==

Planning out skills selection can be useful as well, but getting the basics of a standard sorcerer aren't too difficult.

Here are some solid skills to keep maxed out while leveling a sorcerer:

• Concentration – An incredibly useful skill for sorcerers! In DDO, sorcerers rely on Concentration when spell casting and taking damage from enemy attacks. When a sorcerer is damaged while casting, a Concentration check occurs – failure results in their SP being wasted while the spell fizzles out. A higher Concentration skill improves chances to succeed, so keep Concentration maxed out at all levels.

• Diplomacy – Also a very handy skill. Have you enraged a nasty enemy with your Magic Missiles or stumbled onto a deadly, sneaking foe? When used, Diplomacy may cause that enemy to decide to go after another member in your party. Crisis averted!

• Use Magic Device (UMD) – This skill allows a sorcerer the use of equipment designed for another race, or even moral alignment. UMD also allows the use of scrolls and wands normally wielded by divine classes such as clerics and paladins, opening up opportunities for a sorcerer to self-heal with divine scrolls and wands.

• Balance – Characters get knocked down by many types of attacks – both physical and magical – in DDO. With Balance, a character regains their footing more quickly after a knockdown. Avoiding a knockdown requires either decent STR or DEX, and because a sorcerer doesn’t typically invest in either STR or DEX scores, the faster recovery-time offered by Balance is invaluable.

Here are a couple optional skills that, depending on personal play style, can be useful:

• Bluff – With Bluff, a character may convince some non-player characters (NPCs) to give extra information on a quest or do something specific. Bluff also works like Diplomacy in convincing monsters to attack someone else, and unlike Diplomacy it can be used while playing solo; however, Bluff only works on one target at a time (compared to Diplomacy, which can affect multiple creatures at once.) With a sorcerer's high CHA only a few skill ranks are really needed.

• Haggle - Improve the price of items sold to NPCs and lower the cost of items bought from NPCs.

• Spot - See hidden enemies before they appear and begin attacking. A few points in Spot may make the difference between not seeing hidden enemies and seeing most of them.

[Schmoe]

You should mention that dwarves and half-orcs make poor sorcerers because of the CHA penalty.

[karl_k0ch]

Great idea to call it WiP and allow the community to participate.

I like the 14 Con - 12 Con statement.

At max level (20) a character will have 7 Feats total.

Level 20 Pure Sorcerer, that is. Splashing Fighter or Monk will give more of that.

Maybe mention that a sorcerer's UMD score will greatly benefit from their high Charisma.

Spot - See hidden enemies before they appear and begin attacking. A few points in Spot may make the difference between not seeing hidden enemies and seeing most of them.

Iirc, the Spot DCs are rather high - a rogue with maxed Spot noticed a difference with and without Tharne's goggles, if I recall the anecdote correctly. (Edit: Note that I am not referring to Trap DCs here, but to spotting hidden mobs DCs.)

[DemonMage]

While reflex saves are nice and all, a high dexterity on a sorcerer is seldom very useful, you generally don't have the points to raise it. And while mentioning that dex has an effect on Armor Class is fine, it should probably be noted that raising AC on a sorcerer is not really viable.

Also do not recommend Eschew Materials, period. Using a feat slot to save on the cheap vendor bought components (it won't even save on the more expensive ones) is not something you should be suggesting as a viable choice. You mention Force of Personality earlier, but don't mention it here, that would be a way better option than Eschew. Or than either Mental Toughness feats. Sorcerer SP is rarely a problem, especially later on.

Other than that, it looks a lot better than the melee one from what I remember.

[Cauthey]

While you're right about Strength not being useful in spell casting, it might be worthwhile to add a consideration about not COMPLETELY dump-statting it. I have a guildie that regrets not putting a couple of points into Strength just to minimize encumberance issues. When you're really piling up the loot in your pack, Sorcerer's that need to be light on their feet to avoid melee can get slowed down with a heavy backpack.

[DemonMage]

You may also wish to note that Spell Focus Evocation or Conjuration is required for the Sorcerer's Savant PrE lines, so that swapping that out for something else, even if it appears a lackluster feat at first, isn't a good idea.

[Schmoe]

On a more thorough review, I think this is a pretty solid start. I agree with everything DemonMage said:

1. Eschew Materials is not worth a feat and should not be recommended
2. Force of Personality is a good option that deserves mention in feat choices
3. If you discuss the Mental Toughness feats, you should mention that sorcerers get the most spell points in the game and rarely need to spend feats on Mental Toughness.
4. You can suggest bumping Dexterity for the Reflex saves, but make sure to say that pursuing AC is something that most sorcerers can't do and new players shouldn't bump Dex with AC in mind.

[Danmor]

Are you planning on gear suggestions as well? Because the double sp from items thing still causes a lot of confusion with newbies.
Especially if you start splashing other classes. Maybe mention something like that? As well as pointing out that in general deep multiclassing on casters is not the best idea.

[Cam_Neely]

If turbine is willing to lay out a build in a 101 post, why are the premade builds in DDO [not good]? I think this is one of the biggest turn offs to new players. Its one of the first things they see when entering the game, and almost with fail, its a very bad build that causes players to either reroll, or look for a new game.

• Train 1 rank (not ".5" -- 1.0) into the Tumble skill at character creation. In DDO, a player cannot use Tumble without training, and tumbling away from ranged attacks is a useful skill to have.

This should really be in the basic 101 posting, its not Sorcerer specific

[Shade]

Iirc, the Spot DCs are rather high - a rogue with maxed Spot noticed a difference with and without Tharne's goggles, if I recall the anecdote correctly.

They are for traps, not spotting hidden enemies - which is what youd want as a sorcerer, being you cannot even target a hidden enemy to say kill him wiht fod anymore.

Any good build that has some spare skill points should be putting them in spot.

Pretty much 8 wisdom, cross class ranks and a item will spot every enemy in the game. Generally don't even need the best item for your leve either, just a close one.

On the guide:
The first/recommended build is poor becauses it calls itself a good nuke build, yet then adds feats that have no effect on nukning (spell penetration, which are decent feats - but best put on a build more focused in enchantment or necromancy)
I'd recommend changing them to:
1) Evocation focus, Toughnes (being lvl1 spells cost 4SP and your SP pool is small, it is just incredibly ineffective to use max/emp at this lvl, so might as well take advantage of the extra DC early on.. Even on my triple tr sorc with full twink gear and tons of sp I took max/emp and found putting either on was always a bad idea at this lvl. For a new player , it would only be worse.
3) Maximize
6) Extend - If as a sorc you can at least cast extended haste/resists/displace/rage/etc.. No matter how poorly you casts, you will be a valuable party member, so this - even after the nerf - is a CRITICAL feat for any new sorcerer. New players simply won't have the SP/experience needed to keep a party fully buffed an entire quest without it.
9) Empower
12) Heighten
15) Greater spell focus
18) Quicken or Spell focus enchantment (held mobs take 50% extra damage from spells)

Stats:
As other have said, dex = dump stat.. Because 1) Theres simply not enough points to get it at a nice lvl. 2) You can survive nasty reflex save spells by using defensive buffs such as fireshield/jump/gh instead of reflex.

Strength - Need to note that every character should have SOME strength, even a pure caster sorcerer. As it effects too many things to dump:
Carrying capacity - a major concern for anyone who wants to pick up any loot. 8 str just doesn't cut it and really slows you down.
Not getting helpless - A common low lvl debuff is ray of enfeeblement, which does 1d6+5 str dmg.. So 8 str + say 1/2 from an item youd have at low lvl, is not enough to prevent you instantly becoming helpless. (especially common in tangleroot)
Getting tripped - again tons of enemies at low lvl trip (again especially tangleroot, but even as early as the waterworks has some wolves with improved trip)

So I'd recommend a minimum of 10 str, and say 12 str would be nice to have.

[FordyTwo]

This should really be in the basic 101 posting, its not Sorcerer specific

Good call! Done.

Edited: I've updated the guide, and will be looking over it again based on additional feedback.

[Cam_Neely]

If turbine is willing to lay out a build in a 101 post, why are the premade builds in DDO [not good]?

not sure why **** (yes it was 4x asterisks in the post) needed to be replaced with '[not good]'. 'not good' does not come close to describing my first premade build.

Thanks 42. I think that the [insert class] 101s should be specific to the build while the general 101s should have these all encompassing details. Makes it easier and cleaner to read.

[GotSomeQuestions]

While the "14 Constitution" recommendation is great, I would suggest changing it to "at least 14 Constitution." No reason to discourage people from putting a 16, or even an 18 in such an important stat. Sorcerers (and Wizards) only gain a base of 4 hit points per level, that is the lowest in the game. But with a high Con, you can compensate for that.

Also, one of the important choices a player will have to make when starting their first sorcerer is choosing their two 1st level spells. I would briefly address this. You don't have to discuss the pros and cons of specific spells, but a really basic suggestion like "make sure to take at least one spell that can do damage to enemies" couldn't hurt.

[Asketes]

starting to look really good Fordytwo!

+1


I would honestly say that for this guide, it should advocate a 16 starting con, it still allows some extra build points as well instead of maxing con. (14 for drow)

[stainer]

It might also be helpful to point out getting a nice UMD skill score is achievable due to high charisma sorcs have.

[Wizzly_Bear]

My brief 2cp on a "101" sorcerer (I'm at work or I'd elaborate more).

6 build points in con, 16 in cha (maxed), 4 in int (2 if human or drow), rest in wisdom (will saves) and/or strength (carrying and trip/web prevention).

Skills: concentration, balance, umd

Feats: toughness, max, empower, quicken
If non-nuke: spell pen, greater spell pen, enlarge
If nuke: spell focus and greater spel focus evocation

Leftover feats: any from above; also, extend, spell foci necromancy, spell foci enchantment

Spells: focus on spells that are most useful for repeated castings (nukes, AoEs, displacement, recon. Fill holes with situationals like knock.

[bobbryan2]

This was actually a pretty good guide. It'll get them through the first few levels, and all the vets won't have to 'fix' the characters at 20 for them. Much better than the melee one. Good job!

On the Constitution, I'd mention that it's used for DCs of some of the powerful spell like abilities at high levels. Just so they know it will help their casting. Also... anything to convince newbies to take a little more con is helpful.

[FrozenNova]

Definitely throw in a mandatory 11 ranks to UMD - that's a major advantage sorcerors have over wizards for new players. It's possibly to achieve workable UMD on a wizard, but far from the simplicity a 40 cha will grant.

[Ytteri]

Spell focus conjuration is a viable alternative to evocation as it also meets the pre-requisites for the savant lines, and a heightened web is a very good CC spell. Earth savants especially should take conjuration instead as most acid spells seem to be conjuration.

[nat_1]

• WIS - A sorcerer's Spot skill and Will Save tie directly into Wisdom (WIS). While a high WIS isn't useless, few sorcerers have a score higher than 12 because Will Save can be increased by taking the Force of Personality feat.

Wouldn't you dump Wis if you were taking FoP? This makes it sound like you would take 12 Wis then FoP.

IMO Warforged need some credit for their immunities since they can shore up the likely dismal saves on a 28 pt non-twinked Sorc. The immunities make it easier to take the route of "1. Casting stat 2. Con 3. Whatever."