Need a sorcerer build (water savant)

[Nephilia]

Hi all for looking and thanks in advance for who will help me
I really dunno how to build a pure caster like this.
I've access to 32 point build, tomes and a lot of stuffs and item
the only things I don't have are WF, HOrc, monk class... but I think I can survive without it
I would like to have a human one or elf (if necessary).
I really need a complete build (stats, skills, feats, spell etc.) and I was thinking to start with fire enhancement and drop it for water one I passed lv 13-14 where undead are a little bit lesser constant in quests.

Ty a lot all

[Ridag]

Human Sorcerer level 20

Stats -

Max Charisma + all level up stat points

Minimum 16 Con (I prefer 18 con at cap and LR to re-arrange stat points when I hit 20)

Rest of your stat points into either Str for being able to carry more ****, or Dex for Reflex, or Int for Skill points

Skills -

Every level max out UMD and Concentration, two points into tumble at creation to get a +1 Tumble. Any other skill points into balance, bluff or any other skills that you like.

Feats -

1 - Toughness
1 - Maximize
3 - Extend
6 - Empower
9 - Spell Focus: Evocation
12 - Heighten
15 - Greater Spell Focus: Evocation (or Spell Pen)
18 - Spell Pen (or Greater Spell Pen if you took Spell Pen at 15)

The level 15 and 18 feats are open, you can substitute Spell Focus Necro and Greater Spell Focus Necro, or one of those and a Spell Pen feat. It all depends on your playstyle and what you want out of your build.

Spells -


Level 1 - Jump, Nightshield, Protection from Evil, Hypnotism

Level 2 - Resist Energy, Web, Knock, Blur

Level 3 - Haste, Rage, Displacement, Halt Undead (Chain Missiles if going Force)

Level 4 - Dimension Door, Enervation, Ice Storm, Fireshield (Crushing Despair is good here too)

Level 5 - Protection from Elements, Cloud Kill, Niac's Biting Cold, Eladar's Electric Surge

Level 6 - Otiluke's Freezing Sphere, Circle of Death, Disintegrate

Level 7 - Finger of Death, Otto's Sphere of Dancing, Waves of Exhaustion

Level 8 - Polar Ray, Symbol of Death, Otto's Irresistible Dance

Level 9 - Wail of the Banshee, Power Word: Kill, Energy Drain or Meteor Swarm

There is wiggle room in that spell list as well.

Enhancements -

I would certainly level up as a Fire Savant and switch to water in the later levels (16-18 depending on what content you run) and that will effect your spell list as well, you'd want to carry Wall of Fire instead of Ice Storm, Fireball instead of Halt Undead etc.

Max out your cold enhancements and choose a secondary damage type, Force is good, but whatever type you prefer and tailor you spell list further from there, carrying a few spells from your chosen secondary.

Other than that, take 2 toughness enhancements, Sorc Charisma, Human Adaptability Charisma, 2 Energy of the Dragonblooded, 2 ranks of improved maximizing, and the savant enhancements.

Pretty simple really. The more you play the more you will figure out what you like to do and tailor it from there.

[Nephilia]

Ty a lot, ridaq
My doubt came from the stat almost entirely... Was thinking about a 18 cos, 18 cha or a 10 str, 16 con, 12 int, 18 cha... I'll decide about it If I dislike once I hit 20 I could TR anyway :P

Spells are pure gold to me and I cannot say how much I'm grate to u for the list

About play style... for what I've caught in the forum seems that water savant is the best one in epic and end-game raids/contents.
For sure I would be able to solo base one in epic VON and to help with cold prison during shroud and wherever I could help

The second damage line... was thinking about force or acid... I dislike electricity (dunno why, anyway XD) and I don't want to get fire with all that malus from water savant
But I think I would go force in the end

[Ridag]

10 str, 16 con, 12 int, 18 cha... I'll decide about it

I would recommend this layout for leveling as the extra 2 con would be barely noticeable before level 20.

Spells are pure gold to me and I cannot say how much I'm grate to u for the list

Happy to help!

About play style... for what I've caught in the forum seems that water savant is the best one in epic and end-game raids/contents.

It certainly is, though I have found Air to be a close second.

For sure I would be able to solo base one in epic VON and to help with cold prison during shroud and wherever I could help

I expect Icy Prison will be fixed eventually so that it no longer effects raid bosses, but Water will still be excellent DPS. Air with a secondary of Cold will also be very strong.

The second damage line... was thinking about force or acid... I dislike electricity (dunno why, anyway XD) and I don't want to get fire with all that malus from water savant
But I think I would go force in the end

If you chose Acid then swap Blur out for Melf's Acid Arrow at level 2, Halt Undead for Acid Blast at level 3, drop Enervation for Acid Rain at level 4 and you could even work in Acid Fog at level 6.

For Force Chain Missiles, Disintegrate, Horrid Wilting and Cyclonic Blast are all good choices. I don't like Force as the best you can get for it is Greater Arcane Lore and Efficacy clickies are shorter duration than the elemental ones.

I am currently spec'd as a Water Savant with a secondary in Fire, but that is not something that everyone would want to play with.

[Darkrok]

I am currently spec'd as a Water Savant with a secondary in Fire, but that is not something that everyone would want to play with.

Nice spec for leveling though. The water savant penalties to Wall of Fire are nearly non-existent. You lose no duration, and lose 3 damage for each tier of water savant you've taken. At low levels where it's likely to matter the most that's only 3 damage off making it still a hugely useful spell - especially against undead.

As for the Extend/not Extend thing...I'm still on the fence. Both of my boys that play have level 9/10 sorcs - one's human, one's warforged - and the human has Extend while the WF'd does not. There's a difference to playing with it versus without it but I'm not sure the difference is large enough to merit the feat.

Really depends on whether you want to go purely nuke or if you want to be able to add necro/enchantment to your repertoire. On flat nuking you don't really need the spell pen. Without the spell pen there's not a lot of point to taking Ench/Necro. That would leave Extend competing with something like Spell Focus: Conjuration (better webs/clouds). In that case I'd probably go with Extend and the Conjuration is secondary.

The only caveat to that for a pure nuker would be if you had access to the Wizard or Sorc past lives. Both trump taking SF/GSF evocation (as they give that benefit and more). On a non-human we already have to choose between GSF:Evo and Extend. On a human, one past life gives us that same decision to make. Given the fact that there are plenty of attack spells that do have a save for half (or none) I would say it would make sense to drop Extend in that situation as well.

[Nephilia]

And here's my creation
Fell free to comment and critics

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.9.1 
DDO Character Planner Home Page  

Level 20 True Neutral Human Male 
(20 Sorcerer) 
Hit Points: 222 
Spell Points: 2061 

BAB: 10/10/15/20 
Fortitude: 10 
Reflex: 5 
Will: 11 

              Starting    Feat/Enhancement 
Abilities    Base Stats    Modified Stats 
(32 Point)    (Level 1)      (Level 20) 
Strength           10                10 
Dexterity           8                 8 
Constitution       16                18 
Intelligence       12                14 
Wisdom              8                 8 
Charisma           18                29 

Tomes Used 
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7 
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7 
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7 
 
              Starting      Feat/Enhancement 
             Base Skills  Modified Skills 
Skills       (Level 1)      (Level 20) 
Balance            0              10 
Bluff              4              9 
Concentration      7              27 
Diplomacy          6              20 
Disable Device     n/a            n/a 
Haggle             4              9 
Heal               -1             -1 
Hide               -1             -1 
Intimidate         4              9 
Jump               0              7 
Listen             -1             -1 
Move Silently      -1             -1 
Open Lock          n/a            n/a 
Perform            n/a            n/a 
Repair             1              2 
Search             1              2 
Spot               -1             -1 
Swim               0              6 
Tumble             0              0 
Use Magic Device   6              20 
 
Level 1 (Sorcerer) 
Skill: Balance (+1) 
Skill: Concentration (+4) 
Skill: Diplomacy (+2) 
Skill: Tumble (+1) 
Skill: Use Magic Device (+2) 
Feat: (Human Bonus) Maximize Spell 
Feat: (Selected) Toughness 
 
Level 2 (Sorcerer) 
Skill: Balance (+0.5) 
Skill: Concentration (+1) 
Skill: Diplomacy (+0.5) 
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5) 
 
Level 3 (Sorcerer) 
Skill: Balance (+0.5) 
Skill: Concentration (+1) 
Skill: Diplomacy (+0.5) 
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5) 
Feat: (Selected) Extend Spell 
 
Level 4 (Sorcerer) 
Ability Raise: CHA 
Skill: Balance (+0.5) 
Skill: Concentration (+1) 
Skill: Diplomacy (+0.5) 
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5) 
 
Level 5 (Sorcerer) 
Skill: Balance (+0.5) 
Skill: Concentration (+1) 
Skill: Diplomacy (+0.5) 
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5) 
 
Level 6 (Sorcerer) 
Skill: Balance (+0.5) 
Skill: Concentration (+1) 
Skill: Diplomacy (+0.5) 
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5) 
Feat: (Selected) Empower Spell 
 
Level 7 (Sorcerer) 
Skill: Balance (+0.5) 
Skill: Concentration (+1) 
Skill: Diplomacy (+0.5) 
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5) 
 
Level 8 (Sorcerer) 
Ability Raise: CHA 
Skill: Balance (+1) 
Skill: Concentration (+1) 
Skill: Diplomacy (+0.5) 
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5) 
 
Level 9 (Sorcerer) 
Skill: Balance (+1) 
Skill: Concentration (+1) 
Skill: Diplomacy (+0.5) 
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5) 
Feat: (Selected) Spell Focus: Evocation 
 
Level 10 (Sorcerer) 
Skill: Balance (+0.5) 
Skill: Concentration (+1) 
Skill: Diplomacy (+0.5) 
Skill: Jump (+0.5) 
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5) 
 
Level 11 (Sorcerer) 
Skill: Balance (+0.5) 
Skill: Concentration (+1) 
Skill: Diplomacy (+0.5) 
Skill: Jump (+0.5) 
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5) 
 
Level 12 (Sorcerer) 
Ability Raise: CHA 
Skill: Balance (+0.5) 
Skill: Concentration (+1) 
Skill: Diplomacy (+0.5) 
Skill: Jump (+0.5) 
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5) 
Feat: (Selected) Heighten Spell 
 
Level 13 (Sorcerer) 
Skill: Balance (+0.5) 
Skill: Concentration (+1) 
Skill: Diplomacy (+0.5) 
Skill: Jump (+0.5) 
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5) 
 
Level 14 (Sorcerer) 
Skill: Balance (+0.5) 
Skill: Concentration (+1) 
Skill: Diplomacy (+0.5) 
Skill: Jump (+0.5) 
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5) 
 
Level 15 (Sorcerer) 
Skill: Balance (+0.5) 
Skill: Concentration (+1) 
Skill: Diplomacy (+0.5) 
Skill: Jump (+0.5) 
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5) 
Feat: (Selected) Greater Spell Focus: Evocation 
 
Level 16 (Sorcerer) 
Ability Raise: CHA 
Skill: Balance (+0.5) 
Skill: Concentration (+1) 
Skill: Diplomacy (+0.5) 
Skill: Jump (+0.5) 
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5) 
 
Level 17 (Sorcerer) 
Skill: Balance (+0.5) 
Skill: Concentration (+1) 
Skill: Diplomacy (+0.5) 
Skill: Jump (+0.5) 
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5) 
 
Level 18 (Sorcerer) 
Skill: Balance (+0.5) 
Skill: Concentration (+1) 
Skill: Diplomacy (+0.5) 
Skill: Jump (+0.5) 
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5) 
Feat: (Selected) Spell Penetration 
 
Level 19 (Sorcerer) 
Skill: Balance (+0.5) 
Skill: Concentration (+1) 
Skill: Diplomacy (+0.5) 
Skill: Jump (+0.5) 
Skill: Use Magic Device (+0.5) 
 
Level 20 (Sorcerer) 
Ability Raise: CHA 
Skill: Concentration (+1) 
Skill: Jump (+2) 
Enhancement: Sorcerer Bloodline of Power 
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Charisma I 
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I 
Enhancement: Sorcerer Improved Empowering I 
Enhancement: Sorcerer Improved Empowering II 
Enhancement: Sorcerer Improved Maximizing I 
Enhancement: Sorcerer Improved Maximizing II 
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I 
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II 
Enhancement: Sorcerer Water Savant I 
Enhancement: Sorcerer Water Savant II 
Enhancement: Sorcerer Water Savant III 
Enhancementt: Glacial Spellcasting I 
Enhancement: Glacial Spellcasting II 
Enhancement: Glacial Spellcasting III 
Enhancement: Glacial Spellcasting IV 
Enhancement: Glacial Spellcasting V 
Enhancement: Glacial Spellcasting VI 
Enhancement: Kinetic Spellcasting I 
Enhancement: Kinetic Spellcasting II 
Enhancement: Kinetic Spellcasting III 
Enhancement: Kinetic Spellcasting IV 
Enhancement: Kinetic Spellcasting V 
Enhancement: Kinetic Spellcasting VI 
Enhancement: Deadly Ice I 
Enhancement: Deadly Ice II 
Enhancement: Deadly Ice III 
Enhancement: Deadly Ice IV 
Enhancement: Deadly Ice V 
Enhancement: Deadly Ice VI 
Enhancement: Deadly Kinetics I 
Enhancement: Deadly Kinetics II 
Enhancement: Deadly Kinetics III 
Enhancement: Deadly Kinetics IV 
Enhancement: Frost Manipulation I 
Enhancement: Frost Manipulation II 
Enhancement: Frost Manipulation III 
Enhancement: Frost Manipulation IV 
Enhancement: Frost Manipulation V 
Enhancement: Frost Manipulation VI 
Enhancement: Frost Manipulation VII 
Enhancement: Force Manipulation I 
Enhancement: Force Manipulation II 
Enhancement: Force Manipulation III 
Enhancement: Force Manipulation IV 
Enhancement: Force Manipulation V 
Enhancement: Force Manipulation VI 
Enhancement: Force Manipulation VII 
Enhancement: Sorcerer Energy of the Dragonblooded I 
Enhancement: Sorcerer Energy of the Dragonblooded II 
Enhancement: Sorcerer Charisma I 
Enhancement: Sorcerer Charisma II 
Enhancement: Sorcerer Charisma III

Edit: I raised up bluff instead of diplomacy, I'm planning to soloing a lot with this

[pHo3nix]

You could drop extend and take something else: it's only useful for displacement, haste and rage, and you can recast them, no need to waste a feat IMO.

[ProdigalGuru]

You could drop extend and take something else: it's only useful for displacement, haste and rage, and you can recast them, no need to waste a feat IMO.

I disagree with this statement.

Also useful for Blur, Resists, and Fire Shield. It's a hassle to recast all the time, and a waste of SP. Well worth the feat.

[Merlocke]

Well worth the feat.

I wouldn't go that far.

[shagath]

I wouldn't go that far.

I would.

Try keeping whole party diplaced for vod elite. This means you use 40% of your time casting diplacement. Just one example but still. I would rather drop empower than extended.

Note:
I really tried dropping extended but you just lose too much dps/your time by recasting buffs to be anything else except buff bot in some occasions.

EDIT/ADDED:
When offensive spells lost a chance to be extended, lots of people(I was one of them until I tried) went like "no need for extend anymore" and I think they'll figure it out later that it's almost must have feat if you want to be useful and do real dps at the same time. This is also a bridge to cheat yourself to have one extra feat.

[Alizar]

I would.

Try keeping whole party diplaced for vod elite. This means you use 40% of your time casting diplacement. Just one example but still. I would rather drop empower than extended.

Note:
I really tried dropping extended but you just lose too much dps/your time by recasting buffs to be anything else except buff bot in some occasions.

EDIT/ADDED:
When offensive spells lost a chance to be extended, lots of people(I was one of them until I tried) went like "no need for extend anymore" and I think they'll figure it out later that it's almost must have feat if you want to be useful and do real dps at the same time. This is also a bridge to cheat yourself to have one extra feat.

[pHo3nix]

I disagree with this statement.

Also useful for Blur, Resists, and Fire Shield. It's a hassle to recast all the time, and a waste of SP. Well worth the feat.

How many times do you need 40 min blur/resists? It might be useful while levelling, but at cap it's by no mean a MUST have. I got it on all my divines/arcanes pre U9 when it worked on other spells too, but now that it's only useful for some buffs i just feel it's a wasted feat

[ProdigalGuru]

How many times do you need 40 min blur/resists?

Often enough to make me glad I had it.

If things are going well, many people skip/save shrines, and a long buff means they can go several shrines before I have to recast.

If things are going poorly, this could mean quests taking much longer than planned. I pugged an eWizKing the other day that took over 3 hours.

Also, this allows some room in the buffs for unexpected lengthy AFKs.

Also, having it does not mean you have to use it EVERY time, you can always turn it off to save mana when you know it isn't necessary.

I really like being able to buff myself, at the very least, and know that it will remain so long as I do not shrine or die.

[ProdigalGuru]

Notes as they spring to mind:

1. Bluff is a BAD idea, keep Diplomacy. You do not do Sneak attacks, so this would be wasted Skill points IMO.

2. You are not really going to need the skill points invested in Jump, so I would not invest in INT at creation, and you should try to make use of Human Greater Adaptability with an odd-numbered stat.

3. You are not going to need Spell Penetration as a Feat. If you are finding yourself using spells with SR checks often enough for this to matter, you can always get an item for it.

[ProdigalGuru]

Hey man, if you want the hassle and SP drain of recasting Haste and Displace every 1 and 1/2 minutes, more power to you. Good luck getting the party to stand around for them.

I find that at least once in a 4 min buff I can find the party all grouped together beating on something, and get them all hasted at once. Long boss fights are also no time to be double/triple/quadruple casting displacements on everyone, especially since your job is going to be DPS in that instance.

All this is assuming a semi-zerg group, as well. A slower group is going to chew up your SP bar with no Extend.

I find it:

WELL WORTH THE FEAT.

[Alizar]

Hey man, if you want the hassle and SP drain of recasting Haste and Displace every 1 and 1/2 minutes, more power to you. Good luck getting the party to stand around for them.

I find that at least once in a 4 min buff I can find the party all grouped together beating on something, and get them all hasted at once. Long boss fights are also no time to be double/triple/quadruple casting displacements on everyone, especially since your job is going to be DPS in that instance.

All this is assuming a semi-zerg group, as well. A slower group is going to chew up your SP bar with no Extend.

I find it:

WELL WORTH THE FEAT.

It`s 2 mins between casts.
Extend is ok if your human otherwise forget it.

[Ridag]

It`s 2 mins between casts.
Extend is ok if your human otherwise forget it.

He is Human, he's not missing out on anything major by keeping Extend.

Bluff: CRAAAAAP T_T I created my pg yesterday and I've spent some DDO point for change is hair look T_T I think I should spend further point in diplomacy and respec as soon as possible -__-

It's not that big of a deal.

Bluff reduces your threat generation for a short period after successful use.

Diplomacy reduces your threat already accumulated after successful use.

It is not that hard to manage your threat with the use of either, neither, or both.

[ProdigalGuru]

It`s 2 mins between casts.
Extend is ok if your human otherwise forget it.

Yeah, if you let them completely run out. Not like it makes much difference either way, considering it is just as big a hassle to do it every 2 mins instead.

From my experience, folks are generally very pleased to get extended Haste and Displacement.

Also your tone seems very condescending.

[Nephilia]

I agree with Prodigal about Extend!
I really won't to cast the same spell 12832672 times!
Even more if I don't have to cast em only on me (egoist soloer XD)
And with spell lv>1 extend means even spared mana!
So totally agree with keeping my extend spell

About spell penetration... I get this just as a filler... What should I take in change of?

Bluff: CRAAAAAP T_T I created my pg yesterday and I've spent some DDO point for change is hair look T_T I think I should spend further point in diplomacy and respec as soon as possible -__-

[Nephilia]

About equipment (I'm sorry about asking so much things but this is my first caster!)... what would I looking for?
Can someone gimme me a good gear set for this baby? ^^