The Use of UMD?

[arjiwan]

Greetings Clerics,

I would like to ask the viability of having UMD on your clerics. Pure level 20 Clerics specced for Heal/CC/Offensive Casting.

I have a pure Bard that can UMD everything (that I can think or care of).
For my Bard, I use this for following,

Divine
Raise Dead / Ressurection
Greater Restoration
Harm
Heal

Arcane
Reconstruct
Teleport
Greater Teleport

The most important stuff are the Divine UMD-ing the scrolls. Reconstruct is nice for the friendly Warforged but I can use heal also. Harm is for surprising almost dying PM's.
Teleport and Greater Teleport is mainly for my convenience.


So now for the cleric, the only think I can use for the UMD is Teleport and Greater Teleport, which are mainly for convenience. I teleport to the marketplace doing this way, Sovereign Host teleport --> Deneith --> Marketplace. If I want go for Necro / Gianthold / Meridia, we have a guild ship for that.

UMD-ing Race restricted items. I don't have any problems with RR items, I can just find the ones I can wear, no big deal for that.

So what am I missing? What use other than what I stated for UMD in Clerics.


Here is my follow up question.
My friend has a high Charisma Pally level 20. 18 Cha + Level ups + 6 enhancement Item. She has golden cartouche and head of Good Fortune. Has GH clickie, with maxxed level up on UMD skills. It is very hard for her to use Teleport scrolls. So if she is experiencing problems with UMD, how can a 14 Cha + 6 item Cleric can have a meaningful % on using UMD for teleport with head of good fortune, cartouche and GH clickie?

Sorry for the wall of text. I hope you can help me.

Cheers.

[barryman5000]

If you grind for more gear its possible to get that umd to even higher levels. I know you can get at least +6 more to umd from greensteel and +3 from another stacking bonus as well as others.

You can do the item swap dance and umd quite well if you get all the items available.

[arjiwan]

If you grind for more gear its possible to get that umd to even higher levels. I know you can get at least +6 more to umd from greensteel and +3 from another stacking bonus as well as others.

You can do the item swap dance and umd quite well if you get all the items available.

Thanks for replying. Yup I think I have a small idea that you can boost more with your UMD, but you need to grind it.

So now my question is, what is the use for UMD? Is it worth that GS grind?

[QuantumFX]

You can use any scroll on your spell list without a UMD check. As a cleric you will not need UMD for all the divine scrolls listed in your OP. Now, personally, I like shooting for a burst 31 UMD. All the UMD-able items in the game go up to 30 and Fireshield scrolls are really nice on a healer.

11 - Crossclass skill
+5 - Greensteel Concordant Opposition Exceptional Spell point item
+2 - Good Luck Item (Head of Good Fortune, Epic Buccaneer’s Ring, Epic Blue Slot)
+3 - Enhancement Bonus (Epic Big Top, Epic Treasure Hunter’s Spyglass)
+4 - Morale Bonus (Greater Heroism)
+3-5 - Competence Bonus (Bunny Hat, Cartouche, Seven Fingered Gloves)
---------
28-30 before Charisma Bonuses or Feats.

[barryman5000]

For a cleric or fvs I'd say UMD is a waste. Most times people are looking to get UMD high enough to use heal scrolls. All the other buffs are easy to get from an arcane and there is no shortage of arcane as compared to divine.

I have a guildie that runs a half-elf favored soul that uses uses a sorc dilletante to use stoneskin, gh, blur, displacement. He only uses it when soloing but generally he says its not that useful in parties. A divine gets all the important spells.

I'd say take those skill points and keep your concentration maxed and nothing else. Concentration is always useful if you need to throw off a heal scroll because its not used with quicken. Reallocate your stat points away from having the excess to even put points into umd.

My arcanes (especially sorcs) put points into umd so they can use heal scrolls, remove disease, posion, etc.

[Jiirix]

If you go human or have spare ability points to put into int and you are going to take a high cha you may think about UMD. If you will play a non-human and don't want to invest in int i would say forget umd. But that's only my 2cents....

[stoerm]

Hi,

So far I haven't come across any needs for UMD you haven't mentioned. Most clerics spend their scarce points on other skills (concentration, balance, jump). I carry teleport rods I'd picked up from events to move around quickly.

Not having made any GS myself, I shouldn't really comment on that. My understanding however, is that the concordant opposition item you plan to make can include bonuses to charisma skills.

Heal on,
S

[MsEricka]

You mention reconstruct on your bard, but what about reconstruct on your favored soul?

If you end up having to heal some warforged "tank" with negative healing amp, you can actually repair them for more than you can heal scroll them. Not only does this save on scrolls, but it saves on spell points as well.

[Cardtrick]

For a divine, the big draws of UMD are:

Racially/alignment restricted items
Teleport/Greater Teleport
Greater Heroism (you can get it from a gird or a Draconic necklace, but it's much handier to carry a stack of scrolls)
Invisibility/Mass Invisibility
Fire Shield (50% less fire damage is nothing to scoff at)
Reconstruct

I hate walking, so I take UMD on every character . . . even getting to the point of having a 50% chance at successfully using a Teleport scroll is worthwhile to me. But even if you don't love Teleport as much as I do, it should be clear that UMD has other benefits. It's not essential, but if you an fit it without much sacrifice, you should.

[Feithlin]

Displacement can be handy too, though you can get clickies from a tier 2 GS item.

[arjiwan]

You mention reconstruct on your bard, but what about reconstruct on your favored soul?

If you end up having to heal some warforged "tank" with negative healing amp, you can actually repair them for more than you can heal scroll them. Not only does this save on scrolls, but it saves on spell points as well.

I don't want to build my toon around a warforged with negative healing amp. I don't know, it is just me.

For a divine, the big draws of UMD are:

Racially/alignment restricted items
Teleport/Greater Teleport
Greater Heroism (you can get it from a gird or a Draconic necklace, but it's much handier to carry a stack of scrolls)
Invisibility/Mass Invisibility
Fire Shield (50% less fire damage is nothing to scoff at)
Reconstruct

I hate walking, so I take UMD on every character . . . even getting to the point of having a 50% chance at successfully using a Teleport scroll is worthwhile to me. But even if you don't love Teleport as much as I do, it should be clear that UMD has other benefits. It's not essential, but if you an fit it without much sacrifice, you should.

That adds the to the list, "Fire shield scrolls". If ever I think I need one.

Displacement can be handy too, though you can get clickies from a tier 2 GS item.

True, but sometimes I rather be hit with my Con-opp and Torc combo.

[phalaeo]

So what am I missing? What use other than what I stated for UMD in Clerics.

'll list what I use it for below, but first I have to rebut the inevitable rebuttals as to why the things I mentioned are useful.- the rebuttal I usually hear is "Why not just have the Arcane cast it on you?" Good question- Personally, prefer to be as self-sufficient as possible.... I rarely solo, so my response is based on my actual playtime in a party.

1. The Arcane is not always there. Stuff happens.... the Wizard has a feverish child and had to drop halfway through a difficult quest..... or DCs in the middle of a hairy fight.

2. Depending on the level and Class of the Arcane, they may not have the SP/slots to carry every buff. The quest may require you to split up....and your crucial buffs wear off without the appropriate person nearby to re-apply it.

3.I value versatility and survivability. I guess I've got a bit of a Girl Scout motto running through my head when Clericing. There were a few situations when I first started playing where the group would have saved a lot of time/frustration if just one person in the party would have been able to UMD a solution.

4. Equality. Hey, you have to admit it- we say that every melee should have a stack of Cure pots on them in case of emergencies. We are happy to cast Death Ward, but are always pleasantly surprised to see someone show up with a few Tangleroot Visors. Why should we fall prey to the stereotype of the faithful, yet often fragile party member? It is everyone's responsibility to take care of themselves as much as their class/stats/gear allow.

So, what do I use UMD for?

1. DDoors on EVoN bases, especially when things get messy and a quick retreat is in everyone's interest.

2. Shadow Walk Scrolls- A bit harder for a Cleric to pull off, but invaluable when you realize how many situations could benefit from using it

3. Blur Wands/Scrolls- Yes, Blur is short on a scroll, but it's better than nothing. As you level and your UMD goes up, you'll be able to use 5-10 minute wands

4. Stoneskin- Not as big a deal, now that everyone can have Earthenguard at level 4, but I still do it.

5. Self-Invis- Can be done via clickies, but I prefer to have 100 scrolls on me. Pots are ok, but are drop-only.

6. Teleport/Mass Tele- I don't care about airships. I'm lazy.

7. Utilitiy- Ever get stuck in Inferno of the Damned near the torches? Yes, there is a trick one can use to get the mobs to help out, but it's easier and faster for someone to UMD a wand.

6. Globe of Invulnerability- I don't care if it's only common in one raid. I told you to stand in with the dogs if you get bees, but if it'll shut you up, here. Have a Globe. And next time, maybe you'll have learned not to stand in front of mama. (Yes, this is what I'm muttering through clenched teeth.... don't look at me like that! You hate people who don't listen in Hound just as much as I do...)

My friend has a high Charisma Pally level 20. 18 Cha + Level ups + 6 enhancement Item. She has golden cartouche and head of Good Fortune. Has GH clickie, with maxxed level up on UMD skills. It is very hard for her to use Teleport scrolls. So if she is experiencing problems with UMD, how can a 14 Cha + 6 item Cleric can have a meaningful % on using UMD for teleport with head of good fortune, cartouche and GH clickie?

I'm going to have to look up both of my Clerics' exact specifics, but it can be done. I do promise that I will detail exactyl how when I'm more awake (it's 5:20 am here)

Saraphima is the closest to your Pally friend. She's 17 Cleric, 2 Pally, 1 Fighter. Her standing CHA is 28 with gear and she put in one half rank at each level. Come to mention it, I'm not even sure how it got as high as it did, but with one gear swap, she has 41 UMD, enough to cast no-fail Recon scrolls.

Numbers to follow- I can't see the monitor straight I'm so tired.

Edit: ****, I forgot Fire Shield, which means that's not the only thing I forgot. Bedtime for me...

[GenPurpose]

I have to say that I absolutely adore having a respectable umd on my healers. The posts above have already mentioned a lot of this too.

Fire shield scrolls for half damage on fire or cold damage is outstanding under the right circumstances. Abbot inferno, evon6, or the fire breaths/ice shards in epic chronoscope are my favorite examples. Those hit hard, but if you plan ahead and have the right fireshield going you'll be a lot harder to kill.

Teleport is just a convenience, but doesn't hurt.

Shadowwalk is really nice. I use it all the time on my healbot, especially in epic demon queen so she has a hard time catching me when she randomly changes aggro and makes a beeline for me. Or to reduce the damage from those pesky archers if the caster doesnt have their aggro that well.

And yes reconstruct scrolls are nice too, especially with the planned release of the WF juggernaut enhancements that will make wf even more resistant to divine healing and may set a few more people going back to WF for tanks. Yes you need something like a 40 to do those scrolls without fail, but it can be done with a half-rank in umd per level and the right gear.

Anywho, I really love it. On a human with the extra skill point per level I absolutely think it's worth it if you can fit it in amongst your other skills.
E.g. Ive got a FvS with a 38 umd (with gh and a charisma of 30) and that will get 2-3 points better as more gear arrives. Without having put any points in intelligence to begin with it still left enough room to sort it out that i would be about to hit every epic skill check in the game (bluff, diplomacy, intimidate), respectable balance so I'm not always getting knocked over, and jump that can still be buffed to 40 from my base 8 strength.

It's all a matter of priorities and play style, but i wouldn't trade the points i put in umd because i still had enough left over to hit my basic quotas for all the other skills that I care about having.

[Sarisa]

I have UMD on my Cleric as well, and appreciate every point I spent and every last second of equipment grind to boost it.

Scrolls I use every day:
Invisibility - Clickies are limited and consume more space, potions are drop only and uncommon/expensive at that.
Blur - Only lasts three minutes, but is usually enough to survive a fight. I can't fit permablur anywhere in my equipment layout.
Knock - While a scroll won't get some important locks, there are enough out there that CAN be scrolled that it's worth using. The private rooms in epic Partycrashers, the optional locked wheel in Fear Factory, the prisoner chest in New Invasion, and several more lesser areas.
Fire Shield - Best elemental survival in the game for fire/cold damage. Well worth the cost in scrolls and investment in UMD.
Master's Touch - While I can only get proficiency in 1-handers, it's still enough to allow me to use a tier 3 Cove Scimitar with a Cove Shortblade in the offhand when I need to vorpal. My to-hit with self buffs is enough, even without the 2-handed feats, to vorpal effectively in normal and hard Amrath.

Scrolls I use less often:
Teleport - For obvious reasons
Greater Teleport - I run Titan enough to warrant using this to get there myself. I don't like being dependent.
Dimensional Door - While I'm hesitant to use rare and expensive scrolls, it's definitely a nice option to have in an emergency.
Halt Undead - Epic Wizard King.

Not a scroll but:
Staff of Arcane Power - Provides an easy way to light or blow out torches in Inferno of the Damned, and provides Globe of Invulnerability for Hound. I used to use this to cast Ray of Enfeeblement when red named mobs could be brought down to autocrit status, but that was removed in update 9.
Race/Alignment Required items - Not needed often but very nice when I do.

I don't tend to use Displacement scrolls because of the extremely short lifespan of the buff.
I should start using Shadow Walk more.

I have 25 standing UMD (11 ranks+5 CHA mod+5 Greensteel+2 Command+2 Luck)
Easy swaps bring me to 32 (+4 GH+3 Seven Fingered Gloves - the difference between command and the gloves boost)
Further items can bring me to 36 (+3 Epic Big Top+1 Yugoloth CHA Potion)

[BrightAsh]

So now my question is, what is the use for UMD? Is it worth that GS grind?

.... No

[arjiwan]

Thank you everyone for replying.

I think this gives me a little more perspective.

Now I need to rethink with the playstlyle I have.

Cheers!

[wax_on_wax_off]

So what am I missing? What use other than what I stated for UMD in Clerics.

There are some other arcane scrolls which you should really try putting to use. I think the biggest one is fire/cold shield. 50% resistance to fire or cold is absolutely amazing in some end game content. Displacement scrolls for soloing are also great.

Here is my follow up question.
My friend has a high Charisma Pally level 20. 18 Cha + Level ups + 6 enhancement Item. She has golden cartouche and head of Good Fortune. Has GH clickie, with maxxed level up on UMD skills. It is very hard for her to use Teleport scrolls. So if she is experiencing problems with UMD, how can a 14 Cha + 6 item Cleric can have a meaningful % on using UMD for teleport with head of good fortune, cartouche and GH clickie?

Your friend has ...
11 ranks
9 charisma (that you mention there)
3 cartouche
2 HoGF
4 GH
= 29 (enough to UMD a teleport scroll on a roll of a 6 or more I think?)

What you haven't mentioned but is possible for your friend:
3 charisma (not mentioned but easily possible: +2 tome, +2 ship buff, +1 AP)
5 charisma (not mentioned but possible with high level gear: +7 epic item, +3 exc, +4 tome, +2 yugo, +3 AP)
1 big top
2 more from epic big top or epic spyglass
2 +5 UMD item (7 fingered gloves)
5 human versatility (if human or helf)
6 GS charisma skills item (good for UMD, intimidate and more SPs for a paladin, maybe a haste clicky too)
= 53 (high enough for most scrolls, not sure what UMD level 9 scrolls need)

In comparison, your cleric would have 11 points lower charisma so still a 48 UMD. Some of this gear is obviously harder to get than other pieces but it is still very achievable to get ~40.

[knightgf]

So, you want to invest in UMD eh? Well, there might be a few uses for it after all on a cleric...

Let's see if we can give you a breakdown of UMD at level 20 or so:

11 base
4 Greater Heroism
6 Triple Positive or Air Greensteel Item
3-5 or so CHA mod
1 good luck
3 competence

Looks like you can easily hit 28-30 UMD. Might not sound like much, but its only a 5-15% chance to fail level 4 arcane stuff, and a 45-55% chance to fail level 6 arcane stuff. Now, if we wanted to take UMD to a few more levels, maybe there are a few things you can do:

1-3 from getting 2-6 more charisma.
1 greater good luck(AKA Good luck +2)
2-5 skill action boost
3 enhancement

With some challenge, and the right race, you can get 7-12 more UMD for a total of 35-41 UMD. Even if you have a slight chance of failing, you DO have a chance still, regardless. And when you are a bit diehard for more UMD, here are even more options:

3 skill focus: UMD
1 Past-life: Bard
+2 highest competence bonus
1-4 even more charisma with crazy potion and airship buffs.
3 House D elixir

If you really want to get these diehard options for UMD, your looking at adding 10-13 more UMD for a total of 45-54 UMD total. Keep in mind though that when you invest more and more in UMD, you sacrifice more and more. There's the matter of gear, as well as being constantly buffed and sacrificing feat slots. Heck, as a cleric, sacrificing one feat slot can be quite a loss, imagine losing two! Some of these options may not be worth it, but they are nonetheless options.

Some things you could UMD for arcane use that are useful include but are not limited to:

• Greater Heroism.
• Sleet storm.
• Masters touch.
• Stoneskin.
• Reconstruct.
• Teleport, regular and greater.
• Wail of the Banshee(34d6 AoE negative damage FTW!)

There are plenty of scroll and wand options for arcane users out there. Don't forget also that UMD is great for bypassing race and class restrictions, provided the UMD is above 0. It might allow you to use some nice equipment depending on what you have and what you need.

[Der_Incubo]

my fvs uses umd for blur and fireshield.

never thought about teleport and greater.. might have to pick up some of them.

[sunshadow]

I use all of the scrolls mentioned above on my TR cleric, plus scrolls of Longstrider. A 15% boost to running speed for 6 minutes is helpful, as I tend to get lost or left behind, and when combined with Expeditious Retreat and Haste, I can catch up easily.

Now if only there were a fly/float spell for all of the times I fall off ledges and into pits... =)