I think it's time assassinate got fixed, finally.

[Jaid314]

so in questing solo today, i got a chance to use assassinate a lot. but this problem has been around pretty much ever since i first had a character with the ability, many months ago.

what the heck is wrong with the people who coded this ability? do they have the brain worms?

if i assassinate something, i don't break stealth. great. wonderful. but every **** monster remotely close knows exactly where i am, and continues to get repeated updates on my position the second i stop moving, regardless of their supposed ability to see me. what the hell? do the devs think i WANT to be moving really slowly and attack with a really slow animation while being actively hunted by mobs that know my location, and can target single-target spells on me? news flash: slowly inching away from the mind flayer that is ego whipping me, or mind blasting me, is NOT how i would expect successful use of this ability to play out. ironically, it seems it's currently bugged, because occasionally i also proc a regular attack at the end of the assassinate... and *that* part i actually like, because it means i don't get turned into a sitting duck while every nearby mob comes after me. and no, they *aren't* just attacking the spot where i assassinated something, they're moving directly to me over and over, with me selected as their target (i can tell, because if i do actually manage to stay away for long enough assassinate won't work on them at all, it doesn't even proc a save).

and then there's the failed attempts. ok, look, i'm no math genius, but i can tell when i'm dealing 10d6 bonus damage, and when i'm not. i can say with absolute confidence that i am not dealing 10d6 sneak attack damage. also, i don't break stealth on a failed attempt either, at least not until the thing i failed on turns around and hits me 10 times (or targets me with a death spell, or disintegrates me, etc).

seriously, what the heck? this has been around long enough. i *know* the devs can handle code where stuff deals damage on a passed save. they've got it working right now with finger of death and wail of the banshee. i *know* they can make stuff not notice you properly, because when i used to wander around gianthold and use finger of death from just barely outside the perception range of enemies, they would barely respond unless it was a passed save and the target aggroed on me... they'd just stand there and wait for the cooldown to end and i would kill another one.

so why the hell isn't assassinate working properly? they've already got the features working properly in other things, including at least one thing that *shouldn't* work properly. my unstealthed sorcerer standing within easy spotting range if the mobs aggro can just spam finger of death all day and draw no aggro, but my stealthed rogue? not a chance in hell.

fix it to work the way it should, or at least make it so that it isn't screwing me over when i use it in situations it *should* be perfectly suited for. it has been broken for long enough.

[delsoboss]

Agreed.

On the 10d6 part i think i read somewhere that it doesn't stack with regular SA damage: at level 12 when you gain the ability on a failed save you do 2d6 more damage than normal (6d6 from levels, 2d6 from assassin pre), at level 13 the gap gets to 1d6 more and by level 15 your regular SA damage is equal (greater as you gain other levels).
So the 10d6 SA damage is "usefull" for 3 whole levels ... wow ...

Well if they can't fix it at least give us an auto-taunt-emote on the dead enemy that breaks stealth so we can run away from his/her super-ninja-using-jedi-mind-tricks companions.

[Munze_Konza]

If a monster sees his buddy fall down dead, I would think that they would be much beter at spotting the culprit. Also, they would be much more sensitive and alert to what is happening around them.

Having said that though, I understand your frustration when they seem to zero in on you and 'always' know where you are despite leaving and hiding and never being in their sight line.

I don't think it will be fixed though. They may not like the idea of assassins running around assassinating everything and not getting any aggro. Maybe it is a game balance thing to them.

Anyway, I know what you are saying and it is frustrating at times.

[Feralthyrtiaq]

All righty, I have a lvl 16 Str Based Drow Assasin and a str based lvl 1monk/8rogue TR Assasin Black Lotus-ish build. My Bluff on both toons has max points in it with gear to boost...You can sneak and target a mob from a distance...moved around a corner (out of body pull aggro range) you don't need line of sight, and bluff them. If successful you will pull him away from his buddies and kill em quickly...one at a time. I use this tactic to pull the Red Named Troll, Beholder and that Orange Named Caster in VON3. Works beautifully and is essential from my experience for soloing with a rogue. You can keep moving away from the pack while sneaking after the bluffed mob heads towards you to put more distance between you and their friends. After you have him pulled to a safe battlegroud of your chosing the mob is yours to play with...you can bluff em a second time, sneak and assasinate if you are quick with the keys, or dps em down heal/buff if needed and do it agn.

Returning Khyber 1mnk/8rgu
Ketzerisch Khyber 16 rgu

[delsoboss]

If a monster sees his buddy fall down dead, I would think that they would be much beter at spotting the culprit. Also, they would be much more sensitive and alert to what is happening around them.

Uhm, yeah, except it has no place in a d&d based environment, spot checks are passive and don't have modifiers for "knowing your buddy died", on the other hand they can try to search you with a quick test or try the "i search harder" mode that is taking 10 or 20 but using a greater amount of time (kind of like what we players always do when we search) so uhm ... yeah make them perform our same search animation before detecting us and i'm ok with it.

[delsoboss]

snip

Yes we all know these tactics, the problem is there is no reason that when the first giant collapses to the ground the other giant that was behind a rocky secret door bursts it open screaming "I seek you!!!" like old System Shock infected and tracks you without error.
Jumping and running invisible like a mad chicken gives better chances to avoid their swings, stealthing you're toast since you're even slower, so ok this means nothing but 1 invisibility potion > 23 ranks in 2 skills (and equipment, and enhanchements, and ability score modifier, and ...)

[BrightAsh]

Totally signed!

I am totally against getting out of sneak automaticly once you've attacked, or assassinated. Instead a sneakfix would be great. it is just crazy it is impossible to SA after you've hit 1 mob.
I tried it on my capped rogue in GH (move silently 67, Hide 65).. it was impossible to sneakattack another mob, coz they all new i was there. I mean, sure they know i am here somewhere, but you cant freakin see me, so i can sneak attack you right?... wrong.

[kcru]

Yes we all know these tactics, the problem is there is no reason that when the first giant collapses to the ground the other giant that was behind a rocky secret door bursts it open screaming "I seek you!!!" like old System Shock infected and tracks you without error.
Jumping and running invisible like a mad chicken gives better chances to avoid their swings, stealthing you're toast since you're even slower, so ok this means nothing but 1 invisibility potion > 23 ranks in 2 skills (and equipment, and enhanchements, and ability score modifier, and ...)

Something I noticed this morning... when I had two guys come seeking me, if I stopped dead they paused. One that was closest stayed there, but the second one eventually went back to his post. (and then the close one died.)



That said, if you hide when not in line of site, you should be able to rehide... sure, the targets should have a +10 to spot you since they're actively trying to find you, but it should be possible.

[delsoboss]

snip

The problem is this thread is not to discuss stealth tactics but to highlight the weird effects related to assassination and aggro.
You sneak in a room with 2 bad guys, no one sees you, you even play your happy /dance in front of them then got bored and assassinate one, at this point not only the other bad guy knows that his buddy died (that's quite obvious), but he even knows who killed him, how, with what and where the killer is now and will be almost forever .. that's weird right?
Especially when the Dev team changed the sneak mechanics to allow Assassinate to be the only attack (probably the only thing) in the game to not break stealth, and we are wondering what was the point, maybe to laugh at the poor newly built assassin trying to escape a bunch of monsters that autodetect him/her while stealthed.
No offense meant Devs, it's just a weird thing, and frustrating at times but nothing to lose our sleep over ... together with SA not amplificated by helplessness .... and vorpal death strike not working like vorpal ... ok forget the last 2, i'm going of topic.

[kcru]

The problem is this thread is not to discuss stealth tactics but to highlight the weird effects related to assassination and aggro.
...
but he even knows who killed him, how, with what and where the killer is now and will be almost forever .. that's weird right?

Yes, having they run towards you if you're not otherwise detected is lame. If they're not hearing you, then they shouldn't be able to find you. Heightened Listen and Spot skills, sure. That wasn't the point I was making though...


The point of my post was that the "forever" part doesn't seem to be true. At some point, if there's no new input (movement) they do seem to assume you got away and go about their business (eventually... at least they did that time.)