Weapon Finesse Improvment Idea.

[Templarion]

Everyone using a finesse weapon would then take Weapon Finesse, even if they dumped dexterity and went with strength.

That's an awful lot of benefit for one feat and a couple enhancement points.

This is true.

Still, something should be done.

I always like the idea that finesse-type build would use special weapons and they didn't deal so much dps as brute barbarians. Specialized attacks to lower AC, SR, trip, stun, you name it...

[Winteris]

It would be really overpowered feat. Even with high prerequsite dex base, difference between str and dex based char would be like maybe 8 ability points (5 lvl up, 3 tome). Few points of damage less and almost 10% doublestrike chance more ?

Adding another feat would also kill the benefit for one of the most feat starved classes in game - rogue. One of the downside of taking WF is that it occupied really needed feat slot so improving it by adding another feat is really bad idea IMHO. Other classes who r often dex based (ranger) also have no spare feat slots.

[Monkeytoe]

Everyone using a finesse weapon would then take Weapon Finesse, even if they dumped dexterity and went with strength.

This is true.

Again: Which feat would *everybody* give up to take finesse? If you look at the build outlines posted in these forums, the feat list for most builds is pretty rigid.

[Aelonwy]

Requiring a 2nd feat, namely Improved Weapon Finesse, would only be acceptable if the feat appeared on the Rogue bonus feat list. Even then the whole idea of improving a feat by requiring another one seems ....well ludicrous. So set that aside a moment. The enhancement line makes sense to a certain degree and could stand on its own to improve weapon finesse so long as it had an extremely high Dex requirement, at least 20+.

However, I agree that the main way to make WF a more appealing feat, and dex based builds in general, is to make dex more valuable in the game. DDO is very, very, very DPS oriented which makes Str based builds the trump card.
Also having AC either take over your build for almost no DPS (DPS being the mainstay of the game) or be virtually unable to maintain a credible AC in favor of DPS (the usual choice) is basically the crux of the problem. If Dex AC trully mattered and I don't mean just for levels 1-10 then WF as is would be a fine choice, however at this time in the game the benefits of a high Dex just don't compare to a high Str... therefor choosing Dex over Str isn't usually a viable choice. Then requiring a feat (WF) to improve the benefits of Dex further exacerbates the downside of Dex vs Str, especially on feat starved classes.

Going back to the original idea requiring a 2nd feat to improve the benefits of the first (WF), which exists to improve the benefits of high dex... well you can see where this is going...

[SableShadow]

Going back to the original idea requiring a 2nd feat to improve the benefits of the first (WF), which exists to improve the benefits of high dex... well you can see where this is going...

Yah, that's the old "we need to buff this" followed by "oh, but for balance we need to nerf it again/buff everything else".

If you need to 'rebalance' after a buff, probably better to take a look at what you're trying to buff in the first place.

[Aesop]

I kinda wish that we used the Pathfinder Feat Progression.

Then again I wish we had a lot more useful Feat options. Would be nice. At least then people could build something a little different every now and then.

for those unfamiliar with Pathfinder, their Feat Progression is Every Odd level you gain a Feat. 1 3 5 7 9 11 13 15 17 19

as opposed to 1 3 6 9 12 15 18

three extra Feat would open up some options... Just need the Options to add in.

I could see some feats from the Tome of Battle being fun options. Heck even as is I would like to see some Tome of Battle Feats or Options.


Another thing though that would help the most prevalent Finesse Fighter would be to make the Rogue Special Training have the Feat Option.

So then the Improved Weapon Finesse idea would not tax the rogue.

Aesop