Remove PvP completely or make those that want it pay for it.

[Postumus]

What i would like to see are quests that have pvp elements like optional(/forced wouldn't with DDO's solobility) duels(i miss those from my pnp), optional/forced pt vs pt in a raid, events etc, but i guess the rules and the playerbase arent ready for it..

So, tldr: /not signed

I have no doubt the DDO player base IS ready for what you describe. And there are a LOT more MMO players out there who might find that adds appeal to DDO.

These forums are another matter and probably don't represent the 'average' DDO customer since it went f2p.

[Chai]

How that should be implemented is a good topic of discussion for PvP threads. Taking the position that PvP is anathema to DDO b/c it was never part of the original PnP game and therefore should be eliminated is sticking one's head in the sand.

I disagree.

Saying it should be eliminated is a bit extreme, however, saying it has not been a focus of the game for 5 years so it will be a HUGE undertaking is not so extreme. I have seen the problems PVP games go through even when they were designed from the ground up to be PVP, both on the customer and company side, and cant even imagine what we would be dealing with here.

Thus the call for people to put their money where their mouth is, so to speak. The biggest convincing case one could make in favor of adding new features is to show the profit potential. Dollarsese is the language they will have to speak.

[SynalonEtuul]

You not liking PvP is both interesting and important

[Drakos]

/signed, for option two. I didn't sign for option one because removing it could also take dev time (unlikely much but still...) and I don't think any dev time should be used concerning PvP.

[protokon]

"Stop spending dev time on anything that is frivolous and extraneous to my likes and desires. My likes are what is important and your likes be dammed."

Is my understanding of the OP correct?

Why not create and maintain a game that can entertain people of different interests at the same time? Is it really such a burden to you that some percentage of the paying population enjoys PvP? Have you ever tried PvP outside of the tavern brawls? You may be surprised what you could and could not enjoy if you reexamined your prejudices.

I know I was.

could not have been said better.

[Postumus]

The biggest convincing case one could make in favor of adding new features is to show the profit potential.

DDO already has a f2p business model, so if they decide to target a player base that enjoys PvP, then requiring the potential customers to pay more in order to experience it doesn't really fit the f2p model. It's more likely they'd expand PvP content, then try to hook new players with the f2p PvP content.


The market is there. It's a portion of the market DDO has not historically catered to. To continue to expand player base DDO needs to appeal to more players unless Turbine has a suite of MMOs designed to appeal to different sub-markets - and that may be the direction they go.


Suggesting PvPers now pay for the privilege of continuing to play PvP isn't realistic, and the analogy another poster made regarding Wizards ("I don't like arcanes, so DDO should stop spending dev dollars on arcanes...") is a valid one. Your counter-argument has merit, but one could plug numerous examples into the "I don't like X, please eliminate X" argument and make just as strong (or as weak) a case as is being made here in the thread for eliminating PvP.


PvP could be a great addition to this game if implemented in a creative and interesting way.

[Postumus]

"Stop spending dev time on anything that is frivolous and extraneous to my likes and desires. My likes are what is important and your likes be dammed."

Is my understanding of the OP correct?

Why not create and maintain a game that can entertain people of different interests at the same time? Is it really such a burden to you that some percentage of the paying population enjoys PvP? Have you ever tried PvP outside of the tavern brawls? You may be surprised what you could and could not enjoy if you reexamined your prejudices.

I know I was.

Really well said.

[cdbd3rd]

Yep, Out of sight, out of mind would help PvP become less of an "I Hate it, kill it with fire." because it spills over into gen chat in harbor, and noise/distraction on taverns. It becomes an annoyance.

They should move the PvP Pits to the 'basement' of the Taverns, or a seperate location/instance. Then it wouldn't be on people's radar as much. The gen chat trash talking in harbor or wherever is especially annoying.

I wouldn't mind the idea of arena/ team pvP stuff. Like a defend the airship kind of capture the flag thing could be fun. But the brawling pits right now are just griefer pits to gank n00bz lol lol lol.

^^ There we go, that's about what I was gonna add to this, tho I tossed a few /props about on the way thru the first several pages.

I support dev time spent moving the PvP pits and CHAT to their own zone.

[NaturalHazard]

Only in cases like Dominate Person or similar effects.

sounds kinky

[Velexia]

/signed because the classes are not and should not be balanced against each other for pvp.

[hityawithastick]

ddo Already Has A F2p Business Model, So If They Decide To Target A Player Base That Enjoys Pvp, Then Requiring The Potential Customers To Pay More In Order To Experience It Doesn't Really Fit The F2p Model. It's More Likely They'd Expand Pvp Content, Then Try To Hook New Players With The F2p Pvp Content.


The Market Is There. It's A Portion Of The Market Ddo Has Not Historically Catered To. To Continue To Expand Player Base Ddo Needs To Appeal To More Players unless Turbine Has A Suite Of Mmos Designed To Appeal To Different Sub-markets - And That May Be The Direction They Go.


Suggesting Pvpers Now Pay For The Privilege Of Continuing To Play Pvp Isn't Realistic, And The Analogy Another Poster Made Regarding Wizards ("i Don't Like Arcanes, So Ddo Should Stop Spending Dev Dollars On Arcanes...") Is A Valid One. Your Counter-argument Has Merit, But One Could Plug Numerous Examples Into The "i Don't Like X, Please Eliminate X" Argument And Make Just As Strong (or As Weak) A Case As Is Being Made Here In The Thread For Eliminating Pvp.


Pvp Could Be A Great Addition To This Game If Implemented In A Creative And Interesting Way.

Q
F
T

[Aurora1979]

/signed for option 3

been saying this for the last couple of weeks now.

It would be like it own stand alone thing. If you want it pay for it, same as everything else in the game.

Its win/win/win. PvPer get whatever developments they want run in its own zones by its own dev. PvEers get all their dev time devoted to what they enjoy about the game. Tubs gets more money and employ more staff.

Happy days.

[raknar_the_wolf]

Only in cases like Dominate Person or similar effects.

Then you have had rather boring D&D games, IMHO. I have been a DM in plenty of games when players' characters have had conflicting goals to the point where it came to combat. Heck, I had a game where a war broke out between nations because of player actions and different members of the gaming group ended up on opposite sides of the war. I always hated games where the DM was so constrictive that such things were not possible.

[shortdevils]

"Stop spending dev time on anything that is frivolous and extraneous to my likes and desires. My likes are what is important and your likes be dammed."

Is my understanding of the OP correct?

Why not create and maintain a game that can entertain people of different interests at the same time? Is it really such a burden to you that some percentage of the paying population enjoys PvP? Have you ever tried PvP outside of the tavern brawls? You may be surprised what you could and could not enjoy if you reexamined your prejudices.

I know I was.

Qft.

[Myrddinman]

Yep, Out of sight, out of mind would help PvP become less of an "I Hate it, kill it with fire." because it spills over into gen chat in harbor, and noise/distraction on taverns. It becomes an annoyance.

They should move the PvP Pits to the 'basement' of the Taverns, or a seperate location/instance. Then it wouldn't be on people's radar as much. The gen chat trash talking in harbor or wherever is especially annoying.

I wouldn't mind the idea of arena/ team pvP stuff. Like a defend the airship kind of capture the flag thing could be fun. But the brawling pits right now are just griefer pits to gank n00bz lol lol lol.

Once again Mem speaks the truth.

TBH, the ONLY PvP I 'like' in DDO is our Arena's. The open pit PvP has brought nothing but strife, complaints, harassment, and the worse the MMO community has to offer to our beloved game.

Myself - I just wish they'd move it outta the taverns and into their own separate locales. That way the minority of people who enjoy it can continue doing so, and those who are annoyed or bothered by it no longer have to be subjected to the sounds or effects of it going on nearby.

All of this ^

Please just move it out of the taverns. I understand the allure of the locale (tavern brawls) but I am tired of being in the Tavern and seeing my screen shake and hear the constant going-ons down there. This is all not to mention the chat channel. At the very least, if you keep it in the taverns, make it a separate instance behind closed doors

How about an arena built somewhere for all PvP purposes? If you want to test your build, go to the Arena. If you want to PvP, go to the Arena. If you want to watch players beat the **** out of each other, go the Arena. If you want to place bets who has the biggest ePeen, go the Arena

[stille_nacht]

i *gasp* actually like the idea of a nice, fair, and interesting PvP challenge, could be fun to try to kill players in a balance setting

Do i think it should be implemented now? no. As of now, the game needs to continue to expand its world (especially its free to play one), while introducing more content. When the DDO world is at least twice as big with 1.5 times as much content, id be happy to see soem sort of capture the flag or else type instance where all the values are tweaked for balance (but only in that specific instance of course).

but moving onto the argument to get rid of it... why does it matter? its not like they are bothering you or anything... even if i am not a super fan of pvp as of now, i know a small portion of the playerbase does use it to kill time and/or enjoys it, good for them, they arent really bothering me....

and ive not really seen much PvP trash talk in the harbor general chat.... perhaps it happens mostly in tells on khyber?

[Kalari]

I honestly cannot believe that someone would argue against putting their money where their mouth is.

Im point blank calling it out as selfish to. As a vip I pay for any extra amenties I want on my ship including crafting altars and the like. Not because anyone forces me because I want to support my game that I have been playing for years.

When I suggested things like housing as a time sink I went in with the honest notion that they would want to make money from any kind of addition of this time sink.

Like it or not in ddo pvp will be treated as a time sink unless they decide to make it a content focus and even then it will more then likely try to appeal to those with subscriptions over those who do not pay or at least be put into packs which can be sold.

For anyone to dare argue against bringing more revenue in the game is mind boggling to me. How can you just expect something like a pvp overhaul to happen without a chance to make profit from it? Seriously do any of you know how business is run? I just cannot understand the sentiment that putting your money where your mouth is is such a bad thing. I do it just to play the **** game I don't think its unfair to see if people are willing to do so to have things they like added to the game.

[stille_nacht]

I honestly cannot believe that someone would argue against putting their money where their mouth is.

Im point blank calling it out as selfish to. As a vip I pay for any extra amenties I want on my ship including crafting altars and the like. Not because anyone forces me because I want to support my game that I have been playing for years.

When I suggested things like housing as a time sink I went in with the honest notion that they would want to make money from any kind of addition of this time sink.

Like it or not in ddo pvp will be treated as a time sink unless they decide to make it a content focus and even then it will more then likely try to appeal to those with subscriptions over those who do not pay or at least be put into packs which can be sold.

For anyone to dare argue against bringing more revenue in the game is mind boggling to me. How can you just expect something like a pvp overhaul to happen without a chance to make profit from it? Seriously do any of you know how business is run? I just cannot understand the sentiment that putting your money where your mouth is is such a bad thing. I do it just to play the **** game I don't think its unfair to see if people are willing to do so to have things they like added to the game.

there is a difference between direct and indirect revenue i think, this is why the f2p model is working about a billion times better than the p2p one.
for example, if every quest pack that ever comes out from now on is p2p, this will actually attract less revenue than if it was 20% free/ 80% p2p, because with just that 20% free, the playerbase is increased by a significant enought amount that sales of p2p packs increases more overall.

seeing as PvP is supposed to attract a new section of the playerbase, making it p2p would repel them away, and therefore you would have less people to buy packs. Free PvP, could, theoretically, attract a large amount of players, who would then buy P2P content to level there characters/havefun/etc. etc.

[Aurora1979]

I honestly cannot believe that someone would argue against putting their money where their mouth is.

For anyone to dare argue against bringing more revenue in the game is mind boggling to me. How can you just expect something like a pvp overhaul to happen without a chance to make profit from it?

I just cannot understand the sentiment that putting your money where your mouth is is such a bad thing. I do it

+1

Ill butcher it then quote this.

You know what, I 100% agree. 6 times now i have suggested that PvPers pay for what they want. each time its either been ignored or been commented on as...

"do you realise how much that will cost us".... Type comments. Its simple. I pay for PvE NOT PvP. I have NOTHING whatsoever against investment of time into PvP as long as it is payed for by people that want to play it. Why pay for something you dont want. Thats directly against the P2P option surely.

[Aurora1979]

for example, if every quest pack that ever comes out from now on is p2p, this will actually attract less revenue than if it was 20% free/ 80% p2p

Really? why? the people that want to sample the game still have a free aspect to sample.

Sure if someone samples free to play, plays it all then wants MORE then cant get anymore free. But thats the purpose.

There is a sample of the game to attract new players. If they play all that content and dont want to stick around and/or pay for more then they never will.