Remove PvP completely or make those that want it pay for it.

[timewalker]

21 years of PnP and nope outside of a NPC charm/Dominate effect never heard of PVP in PnP. PVP is completely alien to DnD.

[jwdaniels]

Only in cases like Dominate Person or similar effects.

Seriously? Not once did you ever say "Hmm, I wonder if my character could beat yours. Let's have a hypothetical fight and see what happens?" I'm not talking about turning traitor in the middle of a dungeon. Just a friendly combat between two characters for bragging rights...

[Trillea]

If DDO were about to have PvP put in, this would be a valid argument.

But since PvP is part of DDO, in order to get rid of it and use up developer time in doing so, there has to be a reason showing that the game will be the better for the time used.

"It doesn't belong" doesn't really work when it's already in place.

If you can show that PvP is making the game worse by causing changes in PvE, or that the act of PvP causes problems for the game, then I'd be completely behind you, but until then, I don't want to see Dev time used getting rid of it.

When DDO started, it had no PvP. It should never have been added and should be removed. If the Devs came out and said that no further changes will ever be made to PvP, I could accept that (it was even one of my suggestions) but it would have to be publicly known.

[Uska]

While I am against any dev time spent on pvp they should just leave what we have alone it affects those of us against pvp not at all and it gives the fans something if they want more they can ask for it just as we can speak against addng anything.

[Elaril]

If there was a way to make them not show up on the main page recent threads, I would. But as it is the hairs on the back my neck raise a little every time I see a new PvP whining thread.

What about a whining about PVP thread? I very seldom PVP, but I know a good many people who do. They are not mutants or trash talking pre teens, nor are they free to play. They are paying subscribers who choose to spend their downtime in the brawl pits. What is wrong with that? Other than the fact that you don't like it? And why would any devotion of dev time to a part of the game that a decent sized chunk of the population enjoys constitute a waste of resources? As long as the devs understand that pvp and pve are seperate animals and shouldn't be balanced against each other, I'm ok with it.

[Trillea]

Seriously? Not once did you ever say "Hmm, I wonder if my character could beat yours. Let's have a hypothetical fight and see what happens?" I'm not talking about turning traitor in the middle of a dungeon. Just a friendly combat between two characters for bragging rights...

Not that I can remember, and definitely not that I participated in.

[Uska]

While I do not use PvP for anything, having jumped in with my son on occassion just so he could kill me (or not), I really don't see how it affects anyone or anything.

If you don't like reading posts about it then don't read them. Seems pretty simple to me.

Maybe you get the forums streamed to you in some fashion where it fills your inbox with every post on every topic. I can't afford a mailbox that size. So I limit what I get to those topics that are of potential interest to me.

I only open the forum areas that appeal to me. I only read the posts that seem of interest. I only reply to the ones that catch my eye.

And, honestly, I don't even know if I can get every post streamed to me on a phone or in email or some other way. I only visit the forums online where I'm in control of where I surf.

PvP isn't my thing. But it doesn't hurt me either. And regarding PvP posts, I just ignore most of them.

Maybe you should do the same.

Not going to ignore them if noone posts agaisnt them then it could be taken noone oposed the idea.

[Uska]

Are you going to tell me that you have never had any PvP in a tabletop game of Dungeons and Dragons ever?

yup we dotn allow it

[khaldan]

When DDO started, it had no PvP. It should never have been added and should be removed. If the Devs came out and said that no further changes will ever be made to PvP, I could accept that (it was even one of my suggestions) but it would have to be publicly known.

I know, I was around when it got put in, along with the non working leaderboards.

My point is that if you really want option 1, then you'd have to show what it's doing that's hurting the game

And just out of curiosity, why would there have to be a public declaration of 'we will never change pvp'? The last change to it must have been years ago, with the only things that happen in new updates are 'XXX spell doesn't work in brawiling areas', which take maybe 5 seconds of work.

[Trillea]

Not going to ignore them if noone posts agaisnt them then it could be taken noone oposed the idea.

/qft

[der_kluge]

I don't really care that PvP is there - honestly, I think it's nice that we have a place to test out specific aspects of the combat system in a controlled environment. That's kind of handy, I think.

But I would like to see the "challenge" system removed.

[Hendrik]

I think the Devs went for Option 2 a long time ago.

Myself - I just wish they'd move it outta the taverns and into their own separate locales. That way the minority of people who enjoy it can continue doing so, and those who are annoyed or bothered by it no longer have to be subjected to the sounds or effects of it going on nearby.

Once again Mem speaks the truth.

TBH, the ONLY PvP I 'like' in DDO is our Arena's. The open pit PvP has brought nothing but strife, complaints, harassment, and the worse the MMO community has to offer to our beloved game.

[bladepro]

/signed option 1 would be my first choice, with option 2 being a grudging second.

[Trillea]

yup we dotn allow it

You need to bring some of that beer over here to Atlanta and join our gaming group.. (BTW love the reference..)

[Chai]

Are you going to tell me that you have never had any PvP in a tabletop game of Dungeons and Dragons ever?

Yeap, and I have also witnessed the epic debates players have with PVP oriented DMs about what abilities should be and should not be allowed, since the mid 80s or so. Its no different than here in DDO, another incarnation of D&D. P&P also isnt balanced for PVP, and the minute someone gets effortlessly killed, we see all the same arguements laid out on the table, including the list of things people should be allowed to do or not do, what is cheap -vs- what is legit.

Something about being careful what we wish for comes to mind. Whats the over under on forumites consistantly asking for PVP features until they get them, and then the overwhelming majority not being happy with it when it does happen? Daddy needs a new pair of shoes.

[jwdaniels]

So if you don't have hypothetical battles between characters, what do you do when half the party is seperated from the others/ dead/ waiting for the idiot that decided to sled down the dungeon stairs on a shield to die?

[Therigar]

Telling us to not click into their thread is the same mentality as us talling them to go play a real PVP game, which was designed around PVP from the ground up since day 1. Dont click into their suggestion threads? Dont click into a PVE game for PVP enjoyment. Neither of these solves the issue, but making this type of comparison definately gets the point accross.

Let's pretend that there are different types of PvP players.

One type only plays DDO in order to have the best PvP character.

One type only PvPs in order to have the best DDO character.

One type falls somewhere else in between these two.

Does that seem like a fair division of PvP player types to you? It does to me.

The first type of player ends up in my group and their gear, spell selection, etc doesn't seem to fit my notion of what they should have. When I ask they answer that they are mainly playing DDO for the PvP and they only quest in order to gain levels and the gear to make them good in PvP.

The second type of player ends up in my group and what? Well, if the gear, spell selection, etc is what I'm expecting then I never notice. If it is different I ask and I get their answer: they know that the gear I'm expecting is what people expect but they have found out through testing that there is a better set up.

The third type of player ends up in my group and what again? I probably never notice and if I do their answer to why stuff is different is simple: its the best I have.

Now, how did this hurt my group? The only one of these that can really hurt me is the first one and that's really only true if they have something totally off the wall.

The second type might be right or they might be wrong but, since their main purpose is to play DDO they'll fix the character if it has flaws. So, the likelihood is that anything they are doing different is actually going to improve things.

The third type isn't any different than any other undergeared player. I can snobbishly avoid them or, if the quest really demands only top geared characters I can politely explain that this time they just can't come along. But, for the most part DDO is so mind-numbingly easy that having them in the group won't matter.

But wait. Doesn't that apply to the first type of player as well?

So the bottom line is this. While there are some that feel PvP doesn't belong in DDO it really isn't doing anything to affect them. So it is time for them to put on their big boy pants and grow up.

If you don't like PvP then don't PvP. But respect those others who do like it and those who have used it to improve the way we go about things by experimentation and testing. It turns out they've actually helped you even though you are unaware of it.

[Therigar]

So if you don't have hypothetical battles between characters, what do you do when half the party is seperated from the others/ dead/ waiting for the idiot that decided to sled down the dungeon stairs on a shield to die?

They shop for stronger glasses. They need to find something to do with their hands....

[Khumbaaba]

I only use pvp to test builds and gear set-ups with friends.

It should stay for that reason alone.

I agree that people going in there because they need to prove something aren't fun, but you run into those pugging anyways.

[Uska]

So if you don't have hypothetical battles between characters, what do you do when half the party is seperated from the others/ dead/ waiting for the idiot that decided to sled down the dungeon stairs on a shield to die?

We dont have that kind of idiot in our group either or we wont for very long